Zone1 Did God give us free will to do evil?

[Cougarbear]

Atheists often attack Judaism and Christianity by asking the question, Why would an all powerful God create a fallen world with so much unmerited suffering.

1. The Calvanist Christians tend to lean into the logic of the problem of evil. Since God is good and God created all evil, that evil has to be good in ways that we can't yet understand including damning the souls to excruciating torment for all eternity.

2. Arminian strains of Christianity try to get around this by saying that God could create beings that are truly independent of God's will that could sin of their own accord. But, even then God's omniscience and omnipotence still makes God fully complicit in that evil since he could both fully predict it and readily put a stop to it.

If you don't like these usual reasons, then perhaps you might like this one:

3. Human beings are self existent in the same way God is. We have always existed before coming to this earth. There are at least parts of us that God didn't create like maybe our energy or intelligence. And that means that we bear only our responsibility for our choices. Because they stem at least in part from our then eternal nature. In that context, evil and suffering isn't something that God just cooked up one day or the opposite of good that would naturally appear like darkness being the absence of light where God would still be the creator of evil. And, therefore, Damnation isn't something he doles out to administer cosmic justice. They are part of us and part of the reality we live in. God has to work with that and navigate that. This is why he can weep along side us as we experience that suffering. And, he graciously offers the Atonement to help us overcome it if we turn to Christ. In other words, we have had free will or choice to choose good and evil as God has too. We are therefore 100% responsible for our choice to choose and do good or choose and do evil. God didn't do it anymore than the devil makes you do evil.

What are your thoughts? Does option #3 help you understand Mr. Atheist that God didn't create evil or does he allow it? Forcing us to not do evil things by controlling our eternal free will intelligence would be evil by definition of Atheists. In my opinion, Options 1 or 2 don't work for the Atheist's question. Option #3 is the only logical reason that works. What say you?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Atheists often attack Judaism and Christianity by asking the question, Why would an all powerful God create a fallen world with so much unmerited suffering.

1. The Calvanist Christians tend to lean into the logic of the problem of evil. Since God is good and God created all evil, that evil has to be good in ways that we can't yet understand including damning the souls to excruciating torment for all eternity.

2. Arminian strains of Christianity try to get around this by saying that God could create beings that are truly independent of God's will that could sin of their own accord. But, even then God's omniscience and omnipotence still makes God fully complicit in that evil since he could both fully predict it and readily put a stop to it.

If you don't like these usual reasons, then perhaps you might like this one:

3. Human beings are self existent in the same way God is. We have always existed before coming to this earth. There are at least parts of us that God didn't create like maybe our energy or intelligence. And that means that we bear only our responsibility for our choices. Because they stem at least in part from our then eternal nature. In that context, evil and suffering isn't something that God just cooked up one day or the opposite of good that would naturally appear like darkness being the absence of light where God would still be the creator of evil. And, therefore, Damnation isn't something he doles out to administer cosmic justice. They are part of us and part of the reality we live in. God has to work with that and navigate that. This is why he can weep along side us as we experience that suffering. And, he graciously offers the Atonement to help us overcome it if we turn to Christ. In other words, we have had free will or choice to choose good and evil as God has too. We are therefore 100% responsible for our choice to choose and do good or choose and do evil. God didn't do it anymore than the devil makes you do evil.

What are your thoughts? Does option #3 help you understand Mr. Atheist that God didn't create evil or does he allow it? Forcing us to not do evil things by controlling our eternal free will intelligence would be evil by definition of Atheists. In my opinion, Options 1 or 2 don't work for the Atheist's question. Option #3 is the only logical reason that works. What say you?

This is one of the core mysteries where the number of opinions are endless. There are times I will with varcity debate a position but it always seems to end with more questions than answers. Other times I will take this position as.I will tonight, rather docils perhaps but just as valid.as.any; we know what the Torah conveys, we know what G-ds 613 Commands are, we simply need to do our best to adhere to these laws, do good for humanity and reject evil. We thus have this control at the present juncture.

 

[Meriweather]

we know what G-ds 613 Commands are, we simply need to do our best to adhere to these laws, do good for humanity and reject evil. We thus have this control at the present juncture.

Forget the 613 Commandments. As Rabbi Hillel said, "Love God and love your neighbor. All else is commentary."

 

[shockedcanadian]

Forget the 613 Commandments. As Rabbi Hillel said, "Love God and love your neighbor. All else is commentary."

Actually I believe he said "that which is harmful to you, do not do to others". That was his lesson to a non-Jew who.wanted to learn the Toeah, he was greatly oversimplifying obviously but maintaining such a philosophy in life certainly wouldn't hurt.. I read the Talmud from time to time also as the commentary is a helpful guide for me. I also have a nice book that outlines in detail all 613 Mitzvah. It's a nice source to remind one of that which is most important.

 

[Mack The Finger]

I believe in a after life and a Creator greater than myself.

I had a near death experience and tho it wasn't as people describe it...it was enough to convice me it where I'd like to be.

 

[Meriweather]

Actually I believe he said "that which is harmful to you, do not do to others". That was his lesson to a non-Jew who.wanted to learn the Toeah, he was greatly oversimplifying obviously but maintaining such a philosophy in life certainly wouldn't hurt.. I read the Talmud from time to time also as the commentary is a helpful guide for me.

Yes, Hillel said that as well, but in the what is harmful to you, he was quoting Tobit 4:15: That which is hateful to you, do not do to others. Hillel lived eight centuries after Tobit.

 

[lg325]

Most suffering by man is caused by man himself through the decisions they make by God given freewill.

 

[jwoodie]

3. Human beings are self existent in the same way God is. We have always existed before coming to this earth. There are at least parts of us that God didn't create like maybe our energy or intelligence. And that means that we bear only our responsibility for our choices. Because they stem at least in part from our then eternal nature. In that context, evil and suffering isn't something that God just cooked up one day or the opposite of good that would naturally appear like darkness being the absence of light where God would still be the creator of evil. And, therefore, Damnation isn't something he doles out to administer cosmic justice. They are part of us and part of the reality we live in. God has to work with that and navigate that. This is why he can weep along side us as we experience that suffering. And, he graciously offers the Atonement to help us overcome it if we turn to Christ. In other words, we have had free will or choice to choose good and evil as God has too. We are therefore 100% responsible for our choice to choose and do good or choose and do evil. God didn't do it anymore than the devil makes you do evil.

Why didn't Jesus talk about this?

 

[progressive hunter]

Atheists often attack Judaism and Christianity by asking the question, Why would an all powerful God create a fallen world with so much unmerited suffering.

1. The Calvanist Christians tend to lean into the logic of the problem of evil. Since God is good and God created all evil, that evil has to be good in ways that we can't yet understand including damning the souls to excruciating torment for all eternity.

2. Arminian strains of Christianity try to get around this by saying that God could create beings that are truly independent of God's will that could sin of their own accord. But, even then God's omniscience and omnipotence still makes God fully complicit in that evil since he could both fully predict it and readily put a stop to it.

If you don't like these usual reasons, then perhaps you might like this one:

3. Human beings are self existent in the same way God is. We have always existed before coming to this earth. There are at least parts of us that God didn't create like maybe our energy or intelligence. And that means that we bear only our responsibility for our choices. Because they stem at least in part from our then eternal nature. In that context, evil and suffering isn't something that God just cooked up one day or the opposite of good that would naturally appear like darkness being the absence of light where God would still be the creator of evil. And, therefore, Damnation isn't something he doles out to administer cosmic justice. They are part of us and part of the reality we live in. God has to work with that and navigate that. This is why he can weep along side us as we experience that suffering. And, he graciously offers the Atonement to help us overcome it if we turn to Christ. In other words, we have had free will or choice to choose good and evil as God has too. We are therefore 100% responsible for our choice to choose and do good or choose and do evil. God didn't do it anymore than the devil makes you do evil.

What are your thoughts? Does option #3 help you understand Mr. Atheist that God didn't create evil or does he allow it? Forcing us to not do evil things by controlling our eternal free will intelligence would be evil by definition of Atheists. In my opinion, Options 1 or 2 don't work for the Atheist's question. Option #3 is the only logical reason that works. What say you?

think about it,,

if we didnt have free will we would basically be a plant,,

our free will is what tells/motivates us to think and move,,

 

[onefour1]

The LDS Doctrine that the intelligence of man has always existed is a very profound doctrine. It addresses the following questions:

1. If God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving, then why didn't simply create us to be as perfect as himself?
2. If God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving, then why does he allow evil in the world?

If self-existent intelligences are by nature imperfect and self-existent, then God could not create them to be perfect. God would need another way for his children to progress toward perfection. For a self-existing being to progress along the path to perfection, they would need free will. For a being to truly become a good being in and of themselves, they need to learn to choose good of their own free will and choice. If you are to force a being to do good, then they are not doing the good of their own free will but are being forced to do good. It is not them that is really doing good. Free will is critical for a being to become a good being in and of themselves. God sends us to this fallen world so that we can experience good and evil and hopefully learn to choose good over evil. Those who learn to choose good and believe in it become good beings. However, with freewill, some will chose evil over good. Because we are imperfect and need to work out our choices, we all at times make bad choices and need to come to repentance. We also need the atonement of our Savior Jesus Christ so that we can find forgiveness of our shortcomings. God has provided a means for all of us to progress by taking advantage of repentance and forgiveness. In the end, we all become what we choose to become. This fallen world has various evils in it by nature of being fallen. However, it is our free will that also brings much evil into this world. If God created us from absolutely nothing, we then have to ask, why didn't God smply create us to be as perfect as himself? We would also have to ask, why does God allow evil into the world? But because of our imperfect, self-existing intelligences, and our free will, evil exists in the world. This world is a temporary learning ground for us to learn to choose good over evil.

 

[Cougarbear]

This is one of the core mysteries where the number of opinions are endless. There are times I will with varcity debate a position but it always seems to end with more questions than answers. Other times I will take this position as.I will tonight, rather docils perhaps but just as valid.as.any; we know what the Torah conveys, we know what G-ds 613 Commands are, we simply need to do our best to adhere to these laws, do good for humanity and reject evil. We thus have this control at the present juncture.

 

[Cougarbear]

 

[Cougarbear]

Why didn't Jesus talk about this?

Who said he didn’t?

 

[Cougarbear]

think about it,,

if we didnt have free will we would basically be a plant,,

our free will is what tells/motivates us to think and move,,

But did he create evil?

 

[progressive hunter]

But did he create evil?

cant have good without evil,,

both require free will,,

 

[onefour1]

cant have good without evil,,

both require free will,,

I agree that you cannot have good without evil. If you create good then its opposite will automatically exist. Whether a principle of good or evil is followed is up to the free will choice of a person presented with each concept.

 

[Leo123]

Without evil there is no good and visa versa. IMO, we are here to choose.

 

[Cougarbear]

cant have good without evil,,

both require free will,,

Actually, both don’t exist without free moral agency or free will. There would be no difference between good and evil. That’s what progressive leftist teach. There is no sin.