Davidson College students furious after they’re tricked into rejecting socialist ideal

[TheDude]

Oh, socialism isn't so great when one has to pay the freight. Lesson learned? I doubt it.

Davidson College students furious after they're tricked into rejecting socialist ideal - The College Fix

Many students at Davidson College recently responded in anguish and outrage after some conservative students filmed a video asking people on campus if they would sign a petition to redistribute GPAs for the sake of “education equality.”

Many students refused to sign the petition, saying it wasn’t fair for a variety of reasons, including that people who earned their As should keep their As, and that students who are given good grades without hard work might not be inspired to improve.

But after students discovered later the petition was a hoax played on them by conservative students in an attempt to illustrate the unfairness of wealth distribution, they hastily called a teach-in at the campus union at which they denounced the effort and vented their frustration.

Some students said the fake petition made them struggle with feelings that they do not belong at Davidson, while others aggressively attacked the video, calling it “oppressive,” “illegally filmed,” and “inflammatory bullsh*t,” according to a video of the April 27 teach-in on Facebook.

..........................................................................................

“The hypocrisy is obvious. Liberals embrace socialist policies when their own property is unaffected, but when socialism affects them personally, watch them become advocates of free enterprise instantaneously,” the foundation stated on its website in announcing the contest.

In the Davidson video, members posed as “Students for Educational Equality,” and recorded themselves asking people on campus whether they would sign a petition to “redistribute the top 10 percent of GPAs at Davidson to the bottom 10 percent.”

Many did not sign, although a professor and a couple students did.

At the end of their video, the conservative students say: “Ask yourself this question: If it’s unfair to say that the people with the highest GPAs didn’t deserve it, why is it suddenly fair to say that successful people don’t deserve the money they earned.”

These students have to be ROCK DUMB to not see that coming. And of course they're angry. What sets most conservatives & liberals apart is the former is a practical thinker who takes responsibility for self. The latter responds emotionally and expects the government and corporations to take care of them.

They just need to retreat to a safe space for a group discussion. It won't cure the pain, but at least they'll be among peers and agree.

Did you see where the professor signed, as did someone with a low grade point average? Wholly shit the irony. Back to the professor. You realize these are public servants? We're paying these fucks to indoctrinate our children people. This is why so many students leave college only to prove dysfunctional. It's sad, and as Trump would say, we're losing.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Oh, socialism isn't so great when one has to pay the freight. Lesson learned? I doubt it.

Davidson College students furious after they're tricked into rejecting socialist ideal - The College Fix

Many students at Davidson College recently responded in anguish and outrage after some conservative students filmed a video asking people on campus if they would sign a petition to redistribute GPAs for the sake of “education equality.”

Many students refused to sign the petition, saying it wasn’t fair for a variety of reasons, including that people who earned their As should keep their As, and that students who are given good grades without hard work might not be inspired to improve.

But after students discovered later the petition was a hoax played on them by conservative students in an attempt to illustrate the unfairness of wealth distribution, they hastily called a teach-in at the campus union at which they denounced the effort and vented their frustration.

Some students said the fake petition made them struggle with feelings that they do not belong at Davidson, while others aggressively attacked the video, calling it “oppressive,” “illegally filmed,” and “inflammatory bullsh*t,” according to a video of the April 27 teach-in on Facebook.

..........................................................................................

“The hypocrisy is obvious. Liberals embrace socialist policies when their own property is unaffected, but when socialism affects them personally, watch them become advocates of free enterprise instantaneously,” the foundation stated on its website in announcing the contest.

In the Davidson video, members posed as “Students for Educational Equality,” and recorded themselves asking people on campus whether they would sign a petition to “redistribute the top 10 percent of GPAs at Davidson to the bottom 10 percent.”

Many did not sign, although a professor and a couple students did.

At the end of their video, the conservative students say: “Ask yourself this question: If it’s unfair to say that the people with the highest GPAs didn’t deserve it, why is it suddenly fair to say that successful people don’t deserve the money they earned.”

There is nothing socialist about the daft idea of giving everyone the same grade in school.
Since this is the level of understanding among hard right students, the future of America does not look so bright.

You clearly do not grasp the analogous relationship between wealth distribution and grade distribution.

There is no valid comparison between grade distribution and wealth distribution. Suggesting there is one is dopey.
Grades are earned in college where there is a general equality of opportunity for students to achieve. The faculty is there to facilitate learning for everyone and grades generally reflect academic achievement as demonstrated in tests of one kind or another.

In some countries there are different values to measure achievement ranging from the very personal to public recognition. While in college the goal was to get good grade, in life goals are different and, in capitalist countries, money and material reward does not always go to those who work hardest or have the highest understanding.

The capitalist system, as well as kleptocracies, permit the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of opportunities afforded to the few. Being born into wealth gives the children of the rich a great advantage over others while those of more humble means can be rewarded by personal enterprise or drive only because the system allows them these opportunities. Even these wealthy people have an ethical obligation to give back to the societies where they live and from which they got their wealth.

Academic grades cannot be shared as that would be dishonest. Greed, on the other hand, exists because there is not sufficient incentive for people to act responsibly. Perhaps it is not so much a question of the wealthy paying their fair share to their communities so much as a criticism of allowing the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of so few.

Holy fuck. LMAO!

 

[Clementine]

Oh, socialism isn't so great when one has to pay the freight. Lesson learned? I doubt it.

Davidson College students furious after they're tricked into rejecting socialist ideal - The College Fix

Many students at Davidson College recently responded in anguish and outrage after some conservative students filmed a video asking people on campus if they would sign a petition to redistribute GPAs for the sake of “education equality.”

Many students refused to sign the petition, saying it wasn’t fair for a variety of reasons, including that people who earned their As should keep their As, and that students who are given good grades without hard work might not be inspired to improve.

But after students discovered later the petition was a hoax played on them by conservative students in an attempt to illustrate the unfairness of wealth distribution, they hastily called a teach-in at the campus union at which they denounced the effort and vented their frustration.

Some students said the fake petition made them struggle with feelings that they do not belong at Davidson, while others aggressively attacked the video, calling it “oppressive,” “illegally filmed,” and “inflammatory bullsh*t,” according to a video of the April 27 teach-in on Facebook.

..........................................................................................

“The hypocrisy is obvious. Liberals embrace socialist policies when their own property is unaffected, but when socialism affects them personally, watch them become advocates of free enterprise instantaneously,” the foundation stated on its website in announcing the contest.

In the Davidson video, members posed as “Students for Educational Equality,” and recorded themselves asking people on campus whether they would sign a petition to “redistribute the top 10 percent of GPAs at Davidson to the bottom 10 percent.”

Many did not sign, although a professor and a couple students did.

At the end of their video, the conservative students say: “Ask yourself this question: If it’s unfair to say that the people with the highest GPAs didn’t deserve it, why is it suddenly fair to say that successful people don’t deserve the money they earned.”

There is nothing socialist about the daft idea of giving everyone the same grade in school.
Since this is the level of understanding among hard right students, the future of America does not look so bright.

You clearly do not grasp the analogous relationship between wealth distribution and grade distribution.

There is no valid comparison between grade distribution and wealth distribution. Suggesting there is one is dopey.
Grades are earned in college where there is a general equality of opportunity for students to achieve. The faculty is there to facilitate learning for everyone and grades generally reflect academic achievement as demonstrated in tests of one kind or another.

In some countries there are different values to measure achievement ranging from the very personal to public recognition. While in college the goal was to get good grade, in life goals are different and, in capitalist countries, money and material reward does not always go to those who work hardest or have the highest understanding.

The capitalist system, as well as kleptocracies, permit the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of opportunities afforded to the few. Being born into wealth gives the children of the rich a great advantage over others while those of more humble means can be rewarded by personal enterprise or drive only because the system allows them these opportunities. Even these wealthy people have an ethical obligation to give back to the societies where they live and from which they got their wealth.

Academic grades cannot be shared as that would be dishonest. Greed, on the other hand, exists because there is not sufficient incentive for people to act responsibly. Perhaps it is not so much a question of the wealthy paying their fair share to their communities so much as a criticism of allowing the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of so few.

Yet, poor people become middle class and wealthy all the time simply by finishing school and working. Our current welfare system rewards bad choices and laziness. While some fall and need help getting back up and some are disabled, others are perfectly able to work but just don't. No one stopped them from improving their lives. No one forced them to make bad decisions. The wealthy had zero to do with young people turning to gangs, quitting school, breaking the law and having too many babies out of wedlock.

You are just making excuses for people being fucking stupid and refusing to do anything for themselves.

 

[Eloy]

There is nothing socialist about the daft idea of giving everyone the same grade in school.
Since this is the level of understanding among hard right students, the future of America does not look so bright.

You clearly do not grasp the analogous relationship between wealth distribution and grade distribution.

There is no valid comparison between grade distribution and wealth distribution. Suggesting there is one is dopey.
Grades are earned in college where there is a general equality of opportunity for students to achieve. The faculty is there to facilitate learning for everyone and grades generally reflect academic achievement as demonstrated in tests of one kind or another.

In some countries there are different values to measure achievement ranging from the very personal to public recognition. While in college the goal was to get good grade, in life goals are different and, in capitalist countries, money and material reward does not always go to those who work hardest or have the highest understanding.

The capitalist system, as well as kleptocracies, permit the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of opportunities afforded to the few. Being born into wealth gives the children of the rich a great advantage over others while those of more humble means can be rewarded by personal enterprise or drive only because the system allows them these opportunities. Even these wealthy people have an ethical obligation to give back to the societies where they live and from which they got their wealth.

Academic grades cannot be shared as that would be dishonest. Greed, on the other hand, exists because their is not sufficient incentive for people to act responsibly. Perhaps it is not so much a question of the wealthy paying their fair share to their communities so much as a criticism of allowing the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of so few.

I don't know what your goal is but you are trying to educate a man who was born and lived his entire life in a socialist country. I was born poor, worked my tail off to achieve some success and "get out" of the cycle I was in. Graduated university with an award for top 4-5%, entered an MBA program. The state has decided my fate even as I worked harder than anyone I know in all facets of life, without complaining or taking a moment off. So, if you try to educate me on socialism or attempt to sell some virtues of it, you have a massive uphill climb.

In Canada, the state owns you from the cradle to the grave, you are a subject of the state, at it's mercy to it's whims, you are not a free man. From the police to the general regulated system of controls and manipulation, you are never an individual. I learned this about the security apparatus in the RCMP and their surrogates. I made them aware to my own personal suffering and in turn informed our allies in America, and even in your part of the world in the EU when they were negotiating CETA. Hopefully some of what I made America aware of is addressed in the new NAFTA, Canada is an exploiter. Domestically and Internationally.

As it were, everywhere on this planet there will be those who have and those who don't. I didn't choose my plight in life, and I never begrudged those who had wealth and a different family situation than I did. I simply wanted to pursue those same objectives for myself and my family, this was stolen from me. Outright stolen in the most vile and disgusting manner. At my university, I took the bus for two hours while others lived on campus, had tutors, had a computer (I had to use the computer lab), I could go on and on. Bottom line, I didn't care, I knew that I had to operate within my reality and succeed. I did successfully in school and in my first corporate job. Until as I stated, the state had their way.

So, you will excuse me if I despise socialism. I have experienced it first hand and read enough about it to know that socialists are cowards. Many of them don't know this, many aren't aware, but they are cowards and the bane of humanity. They are akin to fascists, they just use different methods, the end goal is the same, to "neutralize" you, imprison you and control you. They have zero respect for God, they certainly don't fear God, pretending and believing that THEY represent the God you need to follow. They care nothing about your personal pursuits, rights, and talents.

Ultimately, if America faced a threat I would volunteer even while in my 40's to help her fight. If someone is leaving an abusive socialist country I would do what I can to help them gain freedom. Socialism has become neo-communism, where you are given the optics of freedom, but the security apparatus dictates how much leash you get, if any. If you are born poor you will die poor in a socialist system, there's no doubt about this. All of the "Good Little Germans, will help the state if they can profit. In America, you can become as successful or even unsuccessful as you want, it's in your hands.

This is something worth fighting for. I hope the current crop of college students realize this. So yeah, socialism can go to hell.

Your post is too long for me to fully reply. It does strike me that you are a bitter man and your life circumstances clearly left their marks. Regrettably, opinions such as yours have been a broken record in the USA since the 1950s and they have underpinned very horrible consequences for so many innocent people. You will get a lot of support for your views from American and Canadian conservatives. Perhaps that is a consolation for you.

What of the socialist dream? Are Europeans so happy and content with your system? Are you content to have you government work 20 hour weeks, if they decide to work at all? Are you content to be silenced and censored if you speak "the wrong way"?

I cannot speak for all Europeans. Generally, we have mixed economies of free market and government operated enterprises and while we have problems, I believe this system is preferred to the laissez faire system of the USA.

America had to save your entire continent, TWICE. Maybe a few socialists decided they didn't like socialism anymore after all and it would be nice to expand and take from others. America has sacrificed for others freedoms, have Europeans?

You oversimplify the contribution of the USA in WWII at the expense of the Soviet Union.
I believe it is a serious mistake for some European Union countries to be in NATO because it got Europeans involved in Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither of those countries was worth one European life.

I don't want this to be an argument about systems per se, Europe has some lovely places to visit. Ultimately as far as systems go, America is far superior. The premise is simple: allow people to be free and leave them the hell alone to their own devices. If you target them, interference with their Pursuit of Happiness, there needs to be consequences. In Canada, there are none. I assure you, based on the old Eastern German reality, there are few consequences for European Stasi either.

I prefer our European system because it tries to protect the vulnerable and assist families ans well as the business class.

We have state run media, so does Europe. We have an over regulated system of government control and "bridges" that you can only cross if the gate keeper allows. So say what you want about Trump, but he worked his behind off to succeed, and he knows what environment encourages that success. Europe had it's Renaissance, it's now well behind the American system, in values and character.

There are plenty of commercial channels in Europe.
I do not believe Donald Trump is much of a deal maker. He has done nothing but create chaos in the White House.

 

[Eloy]

Oh, socialism isn't so great when one has to pay the freight. Lesson learned? I doubt it.

Davidson College students furious after they're tricked into rejecting socialist ideal - The College Fix

Many students at Davidson College recently responded in anguish and outrage after some conservative students filmed a video asking people on campus if they would sign a petition to redistribute GPAs for the sake of “education equality.”

Many students refused to sign the petition, saying it wasn’t fair for a variety of reasons, including that people who earned their As should keep their As, and that students who are given good grades without hard work might not be inspired to improve.

But after students discovered later the petition was a hoax played on them by conservative students in an attempt to illustrate the unfairness of wealth distribution, they hastily called a teach-in at the campus union at which they denounced the effort and vented their frustration.

Some students said the fake petition made them struggle with feelings that they do not belong at Davidson, while others aggressively attacked the video, calling it “oppressive,” “illegally filmed,” and “inflammatory bullsh*t,” according to a video of the April 27 teach-in on Facebook.

..........................................................................................

“The hypocrisy is obvious. Liberals embrace socialist policies when their own property is unaffected, but when socialism affects them personally, watch them become advocates of free enterprise instantaneously,” the foundation stated on its website in announcing the contest.

In the Davidson video, members posed as “Students for Educational Equality,” and recorded themselves asking people on campus whether they would sign a petition to “redistribute the top 10 percent of GPAs at Davidson to the bottom 10 percent.”

Many did not sign, although a professor and a couple students did.

At the end of their video, the conservative students say: “Ask yourself this question: If it’s unfair to say that the people with the highest GPAs didn’t deserve it, why is it suddenly fair to say that successful people don’t deserve the money they earned.”

There is nothing socialist about the daft idea of giving everyone the same grade in school.
Since this is the level of understanding among hard right students, the future of America does not look so bright.

You clearly do not grasp the analogous relationship between wealth distribution and grade distribution.

There is no valid comparison between grade distribution and wealth distribution. Suggesting there is one is dopey.
Grades are earned in college where there is a general equality of opportunity for students to achieve. The faculty is there to facilitate learning for everyone and grades generally reflect academic achievement as demonstrated in tests of one kind or another.

In some countries there are different values to measure achievement ranging from the very personal to public recognition. While in college the goal was to get good grade, in life goals are different and, in capitalist countries, money and material reward does not always go to those who work hardest or have the highest understanding.

The capitalist system, as well as kleptocracies, permit the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of opportunities afforded to the few. Being born into wealth gives the children of the rich a great advantage over others while those of more humble means can be rewarded by personal enterprise or drive only because the system allows them these opportunities. Even these wealthy people have an ethical obligation to give back to the societies where they live and from which they got their wealth.

Academic grades cannot be shared as that would be dishonest. Greed, on the other hand, exists because there is not sufficient incentive for people to act responsibly. Perhaps it is not so much a question of the wealthy paying their fair share to their communities so much as a criticism of allowing the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of so few.

Yet, poor people become middle class and wealthy all the time simply by finishing school and working. Our current welfare system rewards bad choices and laziness. While some fall and need help getting back up and some are disabled, others are perfectly able to work but just don't. No one stopped them from improving their lives. No one forced them to make bad decisions. The wealthy had zero to do with young people turning to gangs, quitting school, breaking the law and having too many babies out of wedlock.

You are just making excuses for people being fucking stupid and refusing to do anything for themselves.

Your post characterizes the weakness of the hard right to understand the harm done in a society by rewarding greed. Almost none of the American working class will ever be wealthy.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Its called the Redistribution Project and it was done at several colleges across the country. Very telling videos I would have done it a different way with one group going around asking about wealth redistribution and another behind them asking about the GPA thing.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

You clearly do not grasp the analogous relationship between wealth distribution and grade distribution.

There is no valid comparison between grade distribution and wealth distribution. Suggesting there is one is dopey.
Grades are earned in college where there is a general equality of opportunity for students to achieve. The faculty is there to facilitate learning for everyone and grades generally reflect academic achievement as demonstrated in tests of one kind or another.

In some countries there are different values to measure achievement ranging from the very personal to public recognition. While in college the goal was to get good grade, in life goals are different and, in capitalist countries, money and material reward does not always go to those who work hardest or have the highest understanding.

The capitalist system, as well as kleptocracies, permit the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of opportunities afforded to the few. Being born into wealth gives the children of the rich a great advantage over others while those of more humble means can be rewarded by personal enterprise or drive only because the system allows them these opportunities. Even these wealthy people have an ethical obligation to give back to the societies where they live and from which they got their wealth.

Academic grades cannot be shared as that would be dishonest. Greed, on the other hand, exists because their is not sufficient incentive for people to act responsibly. Perhaps it is not so much a question of the wealthy paying their fair share to their communities so much as a criticism of allowing the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of so few.

I don't know what your goal is but you are trying to educate a man who was born and lived his entire life in a socialist country. I was born poor, worked my tail off to achieve some success and "get out" of the cycle I was in. Graduated university with an award for top 4-5%, entered an MBA program. The state has decided my fate even as I worked harder than anyone I know in all facets of life, without complaining or taking a moment off. So, if you try to educate me on socialism or attempt to sell some virtues of it, you have a massive uphill climb.

In Canada, the state owns you from the cradle to the grave, you are a subject of the state, at it's mercy to it's whims, you are not a free man. From the police to the general regulated system of controls and manipulation, you are never an individual. I learned this about the security apparatus in the RCMP and their surrogates. I made them aware to my own personal suffering and in turn informed our allies in America, and even in your part of the world in the EU when they were negotiating CETA. Hopefully some of what I made America aware of is addressed in the new NAFTA, Canada is an exploiter. Domestically and Internationally.

As it were, everywhere on this planet there will be those who have and those who don't. I didn't choose my plight in life, and I never begrudged those who had wealth and a different family situation than I did. I simply wanted to pursue those same objectives for myself and my family, this was stolen from me. Outright stolen in the most vile and disgusting manner. At my university, I took the bus for two hours while others lived on campus, had tutors, had a computer (I had to use the computer lab), I could go on and on. Bottom line, I didn't care, I knew that I had to operate within my reality and succeed. I did successfully in school and in my first corporate job. Until as I stated, the state had their way.

So, you will excuse me if I despise socialism. I have experienced it first hand and read enough about it to know that socialists are cowards. Many of them don't know this, many aren't aware, but they are cowards and the bane of humanity. They are akin to fascists, they just use different methods, the end goal is the same, to "neutralize" you, imprison you and control you. They have zero respect for God, they certainly don't fear God, pretending and believing that THEY represent the God you need to follow. They care nothing about your personal pursuits, rights, and talents.

Ultimately, if America faced a threat I would volunteer even while in my 40's to help her fight. If someone is leaving an abusive socialist country I would do what I can to help them gain freedom. Socialism has become neo-communism, where you are given the optics of freedom, but the security apparatus dictates how much leash you get, if any. If you are born poor you will die poor in a socialist system, there's no doubt about this. All of the "Good Little Germans, will help the state if they can profit. In America, you can become as successful or even unsuccessful as you want, it's in your hands.

This is something worth fighting for. I hope the current crop of college students realize this. So yeah, socialism can go to hell.

Your post is too long for me to fully reply. It does strike me that you are a bitter man and your life circumstances clearly left their marks. Regrettably, opinions such as yours have been a broken record in the USA since the 1950s and they have underpinned very horrible consequences for so many innocent people. You will get a lot of support for your views from American and Canadian conservatives. Perhaps that is a consolation for you.

What of the socialist dream? Are Europeans so happy and content with your system? Are you content to have you government work 20 hour weeks, if they decide to work at all? Are you content to be silenced and censored if you speak "the wrong way"?

I cannot speak for all Europeans. Generally, we have mixed economies of free market and government operated enterprises and while we have problems, I believe this system is preferred to the laissez faire system of the USA.

America had to save your entire continent, TWICE. Maybe a few socialists decided they didn't like socialism anymore after all and it would be nice to expand and take from others. America has sacrificed for others freedoms, have Europeans?

You oversimplify the contribution of the USA in WWII at the expense of the Soviet Union.
I believe it is a serious mistake for some European Union countries to be in NATO because it got Europeans involved in Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither of those countries was worth one European life.

I don't want this to be an argument about systems per se, Europe has some lovely places to visit. Ultimately as far as systems go, America is far superior. The premise is simple: allow people to be free and leave them the hell alone to their own devices. If you target them, interference with their Pursuit of Happiness, there needs to be consequences. In Canada, there are none. I assure you, based on the old Eastern German reality, there are few consequences for European Stasi either.

I prefer our European system because it tries to protect the vulnerable and assist families ans well as the business class.

We have state run media, so does Europe. We have an over regulated system of government control and "bridges" that you can only cross if the gate keeper allows. So say what you want about Trump, but he worked his behind off to succeed, and he knows what environment encourages that success. Europe had it's Renaissance, it's now well behind the American system, in values and character.

There are plenty of commercial channels in Europe.
I do not believe Donald Trump is much of a deal maker. He has done nothing but create chaos in the White House.

All the Soviet Union did was throw a lot of bodies on the fire. The US spent the most money supplying arms and later rebuilding Europe.

 

[Little-Acorn]

There is nothing socialist about the daft idea of giving everyone the same grade in school.

It is the heart and soul of socialism.

Everything of value belongs to the government. (Socialists claim it belongs "to the people", but guess who controls it. That's who really owns it.)

And the government passes it out to those who need it, not to those who earned or created it.

EVERY socialist society has this as their governing principle. Some lie about it, but all have it, and try to live by it.

There are few or no property rights in a socialistic society.

 

[Eloy]

There is no valid comparison between grade distribution and wealth distribution. Suggesting there is one is dopey.
Grades are earned in college where there is a general equality of opportunity for students to achieve. The faculty is there to facilitate learning for everyone and grades generally reflect academic achievement as demonstrated in tests of one kind or another.

In some countries there are different values to measure achievement ranging from the very personal to public recognition. While in college the goal was to get good grade, in life goals are different and, in capitalist countries, money and material reward does not always go to those who work hardest or have the highest understanding.

The capitalist system, as well as kleptocracies, permit the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of opportunities afforded to the few. Being born into wealth gives the children of the rich a great advantage over others while those of more humble means can be rewarded by personal enterprise or drive only because the system allows them these opportunities. Even these wealthy people have an ethical obligation to give back to the societies where they live and from which they got their wealth.

Academic grades cannot be shared as that would be dishonest. Greed, on the other hand, exists because their is not sufficient incentive for people to act responsibly. Perhaps it is not so much a question of the wealthy paying their fair share to their communities so much as a criticism of allowing the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of so few.

I don't know what your goal is but you are trying to educate a man who was born and lived his entire life in a socialist country. I was born poor, worked my tail off to achieve some success and "get out" of the cycle I was in. Graduated university with an award for top 4-5%, entered an MBA program. The state has decided my fate even as I worked harder than anyone I know in all facets of life, without complaining or taking a moment off. So, if you try to educate me on socialism or attempt to sell some virtues of it, you have a massive uphill climb.

In Canada, the state owns you from the cradle to the grave, you are a subject of the state, at it's mercy to it's whims, you are not a free man. From the police to the general regulated system of controls and manipulation, you are never an individual. I learned this about the security apparatus in the RCMP and their surrogates. I made them aware to my own personal suffering and in turn informed our allies in America, and even in your part of the world in the EU when they were negotiating CETA. Hopefully some of what I made America aware of is addressed in the new NAFTA, Canada is an exploiter. Domestically and Internationally.

As it were, everywhere on this planet there will be those who have and those who don't. I didn't choose my plight in life, and I never begrudged those who had wealth and a different family situation than I did. I simply wanted to pursue those same objectives for myself and my family, this was stolen from me. Outright stolen in the most vile and disgusting manner. At my university, I took the bus for two hours while others lived on campus, had tutors, had a computer (I had to use the computer lab), I could go on and on. Bottom line, I didn't care, I knew that I had to operate within my reality and succeed. I did successfully in school and in my first corporate job. Until as I stated, the state had their way.

So, you will excuse me if I despise socialism. I have experienced it first hand and read enough about it to know that socialists are cowards. Many of them don't know this, many aren't aware, but they are cowards and the bane of humanity. They are akin to fascists, they just use different methods, the end goal is the same, to "neutralize" you, imprison you and control you. They have zero respect for God, they certainly don't fear God, pretending and believing that THEY represent the God you need to follow. They care nothing about your personal pursuits, rights, and talents.

Ultimately, if America faced a threat I would volunteer even while in my 40's to help her fight. If someone is leaving an abusive socialist country I would do what I can to help them gain freedom. Socialism has become neo-communism, where you are given the optics of freedom, but the security apparatus dictates how much leash you get, if any. If you are born poor you will die poor in a socialist system, there's no doubt about this. All of the "Good Little Germans, will help the state if they can profit. In America, you can become as successful or even unsuccessful as you want, it's in your hands.

This is something worth fighting for. I hope the current crop of college students realize this. So yeah, socialism can go to hell.

Your post is too long for me to fully reply. It does strike me that you are a bitter man and your life circumstances clearly left their marks. Regrettably, opinions such as yours have been a broken record in the USA since the 1950s and they have underpinned very horrible consequences for so many innocent people. You will get a lot of support for your views from American and Canadian conservatives. Perhaps that is a consolation for you.

What of the socialist dream? Are Europeans so happy and content with your system? Are you content to have you government work 20 hour weeks, if they decide to work at all? Are you content to be silenced and censored if you speak "the wrong way"?

I cannot speak for all Europeans. Generally, we have mixed economies of free market and government operated enterprises and while we have problems, I believe this system is preferred to the laissez faire system of the USA.

America had to save your entire continent, TWICE. Maybe a few socialists decided they didn't like socialism anymore after all and it would be nice to expand and take from others. America has sacrificed for others freedoms, have Europeans?

You oversimplify the contribution of the USA in WWII at the expense of the Soviet Union.
I believe it is a serious mistake for some European Union countries to be in NATO because it got Europeans involved in Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither of those countries was worth one European life.

I don't want this to be an argument about systems per se, Europe has some lovely places to visit. Ultimately as far as systems go, America is far superior. The premise is simple: allow people to be free and leave them the hell alone to their own devices. If you target them, interference with their Pursuit of Happiness, there needs to be consequences. In Canada, there are none. I assure you, based on the old Eastern German reality, there are few consequences for European Stasi either.

I prefer our European system because it tries to protect the vulnerable and assist families ans well as the business class.

We have state run media, so does Europe. We have an over regulated system of government control and "bridges" that you can only cross if the gate keeper allows. So say what you want about Trump, but he worked his behind off to succeed, and he knows what environment encourages that success. Europe had it's Renaissance, it's now well behind the American system, in values and character.

There are plenty of commercial channels in Europe.
I do not believe Donald Trump is much of a deal maker. He has done nothing but create chaos in the White House.

All the Soviet Union did was throw a lot of bodies on the fire. The US spent the most money supplying arms and later rebuilding Europe.

The choice nowadays is not between the American capitalist two-party system and a Soviet Union oligarchy.
European socialists serve in several European Union states where neither the American model not the soviet one are attractive.

 

[Eloy]

There is nothing socialist about the daft idea of giving everyone the same grade in school.

It is the heart and soul of socialism.

Everything of value belongs to the government. (Socialists claim it belongs "to the people", but guess who controls it. That's who really owns it.)

And the government passes it out to those who need it, not to those who earned or created it.

EVERY socialist society has this as their governing principle. Some lie about it, but all have it, and try to live by it.

There are few or no property rights in a socialistic society.

You re correct in that the communist philosophy states that resources should be directed to each according to his need. Socialists are inspired by this doctrine.
I think it is good for a country to operate a system where the general good is served and where citizens enjoy a fellowship with their neighbors.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Oh, socialism isn't so great when one has to pay the freight. Lesson learned? I doubt it.

Davidson College students furious after they're tricked into rejecting socialist ideal - The College Fix

Many students at Davidson College recently responded in anguish and outrage after some conservative students filmed a video asking people on campus if they would sign a petition to redistribute GPAs for the sake of “education equality.”

Many students refused to sign the petition, saying it wasn’t fair for a variety of reasons, including that people who earned their As should keep their As, and that students who are given good grades without hard work might not be inspired to improve.

But after students discovered later the petition was a hoax played on them by conservative students in an attempt to illustrate the unfairness of wealth distribution, they hastily called a teach-in at the campus union at which they denounced the effort and vented their frustration.

Some students said the fake petition made them struggle with feelings that they do not belong at Davidson, while others aggressively attacked the video, calling it “oppressive,” “illegally filmed,” and “inflammatory bullsh*t,” according to a video of the April 27 teach-in on Facebook.

..........................................................................................

“The hypocrisy is obvious. Liberals embrace socialist policies when their own property is unaffected, but when socialism affects them personally, watch them become advocates of free enterprise instantaneously,” the foundation stated on its website in announcing the contest.

In the Davidson video, members posed as “Students for Educational Equality,” and recorded themselves asking people on campus whether they would sign a petition to “redistribute the top 10 percent of GPAs at Davidson to the bottom 10 percent.”

Many did not sign, although a professor and a couple students did.

At the end of their video, the conservative students say: “Ask yourself this question: If it’s unfair to say that the people with the highest GPAs didn’t deserve it, why is it suddenly fair to say that successful people don’t deserve the money they earned.”

There is nothing socialist about the daft idea of giving everyone the same grade in school.
Since this is the level of understanding among hard right students, the future of America does not look so bright.

You clearly do not grasp the analogous relationship between wealth distribution and grade distribution.

There is no valid comparison between grade distribution and wealth distribution. Suggesting there is one is dopey.
Grades are earned in college where there is a general equality of opportunity for students to achieve. The faculty is there to facilitate learning for everyone and grades generally reflect academic achievement as demonstrated in tests of one kind or another.

In some countries there are different values to measure achievement ranging from the very personal to public recognition. While in college the goal was to get good grade, in life goals are different and, in capitalist countries, money and material reward does not always go to those who work hardest or have the highest understanding.

The capitalist system, as well as kleptocracies, permit the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of opportunities afforded to the few. Being born into wealth gives the children of the rich a great advantage over others while those of more humble means can be rewarded by personal enterprise or drive only because the system allows them these opportunities. Even these wealthy people have an ethical obligation to give back to the societies where they live and from which they got their wealth.

Academic grades cannot be shared as that would be dishonest. Greed, on the other hand, exists because there is not sufficient incentive for people to act responsibly. Perhaps it is not so much a question of the wealthy paying their fair share to their communities so much as a criticism of allowing the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of so few.

You're confusing issues which is a common occurrence for emotionally based liberal thinkers. Fortunately for you, I am here to help you understand things better, but you have to tie your emotions behind your back and try to use the rational lobe of your brain. Ok, let's get started-
First-you seem to think that being born into wealth is the predominant way people get rich, and those not born into wealth will likely never have money. The reality is most millionaires in the US were not born wealthy. Read this link-http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2871-how-most-millionaires-got-rich.html

Now, it is true that some people, primarily inner city minorities are at a great disadvantage when it comes to climbing the income/wealth ladder, but this disadvantage is generally caused by the shortcomings of local, state, and federal government and cultural failures. Again, here is a link to enhance your understanding and knowledge-
Explaining the Black Education Gap | Wilson Quarterly

Finally, Concerning the growing income gap- This is indeed occurring, but is not unprecedented. In fact, it occurred even more so during the Industrial Revolution. However income is only one measure of the General welfare of people. Consider that a person living in poverty today in the US (as defined by the Dept.of health and humor services) is living a lifestyle with many more luxuries than a middle class person of 1950. When societies have great advancements in technology and economic development those who procure these changes benefit the most, but the rest of the population also benefits. So here is your final link, and by simply reading these short articles you will have a much better understanding and appreciation for a regulated capitalist economy.
The Industrial Revolution: Working Class Poverty or Prosperity? | John Majewski

 

[Eloy]

Oh, socialism isn't so great when one has to pay the freight. Lesson learned? I doubt it.

Davidson College students furious after they're tricked into rejecting socialist ideal - The College Fix

Many students at Davidson College recently responded in anguish and outrage after some conservative students filmed a video asking people on campus if they would sign a petition to redistribute GPAs for the sake of “education equality.”

Many students refused to sign the petition, saying it wasn’t fair for a variety of reasons, including that people who earned their As should keep their As, and that students who are given good grades without hard work might not be inspired to improve.

But after students discovered later the petition was a hoax played on them by conservative students in an attempt to illustrate the unfairness of wealth distribution, they hastily called a teach-in at the campus union at which they denounced the effort and vented their frustration.

Some students said the fake petition made them struggle with feelings that they do not belong at Davidson, while others aggressively attacked the video, calling it “oppressive,” “illegally filmed,” and “inflammatory bullsh*t,” according to a video of the April 27 teach-in on Facebook.

..........................................................................................

“The hypocrisy is obvious. Liberals embrace socialist policies when their own property is unaffected, but when socialism affects them personally, watch them become advocates of free enterprise instantaneously,” the foundation stated on its website in announcing the contest.

In the Davidson video, members posed as “Students for Educational Equality,” and recorded themselves asking people on campus whether they would sign a petition to “redistribute the top 10 percent of GPAs at Davidson to the bottom 10 percent.”

Many did not sign, although a professor and a couple students did.

At the end of their video, the conservative students say: “Ask yourself this question: If it’s unfair to say that the people with the highest GPAs didn’t deserve it, why is it suddenly fair to say that successful people don’t deserve the money they earned.”

There is nothing socialist about the daft idea of giving everyone the same grade in school.
Since this is the level of understanding among hard right students, the future of America does not look so bright.

You clearly do not grasp the analogous relationship between wealth distribution and grade distribution.

There is no valid comparison between grade distribution and wealth distribution. Suggesting there is one is dopey.
Grades are earned in college where there is a general equality of opportunity for students to achieve. The faculty is there to facilitate learning for everyone and grades generally reflect academic achievement as demonstrated in tests of one kind or another.

In some countries there are different values to measure achievement ranging from the very personal to public recognition. While in college the goal was to get good grade, in life goals are different and, in capitalist countries, money and material reward does not always go to those who work hardest or have the highest understanding.

The capitalist system, as well as kleptocracies, permit the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of opportunities afforded to the few. Being born into wealth gives the children of the rich a great advantage over others while those of more humble means can be rewarded by personal enterprise or drive only because the system allows them these opportunities. Even these wealthy people have an ethical obligation to give back to the societies where they live and from which they got their wealth.

Academic grades cannot be shared as that would be dishonest. Greed, on the other hand, exists because there is not sufficient incentive for people to act responsibly. Perhaps it is not so much a question of the wealthy paying their fair share to their communities so much as a criticism of allowing the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of so few.

Forgive me for being unwilling to read apologists for the capitalist system.

You're confusing issues which is a common occurrence for emotionally based liberal thinkers. Fortunately for you, I am here to help you understand things better, but you have to tie your emotions behind your back and try to use the rational lobe of your brain. Ok, let's get started-
First-you seem to think that being born into wealth is the predominant way people get rich, and those not born into wealth will likely never have money. The reality is most millionaires in the US were not born wealthy. Read this link-http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2871-how-most-millionaires-got-rich.html

No, maybe most millionaires did not have very rich patents but many do and Donald Trump is one of them.
Comfortable middle class parents can afford to provide opportunities for their children in ways not available to the poor.

Now, it is true that some people, primarily inner city minorities are at a great disadvantage when it comes to climbing the income/wealth ladder, but this disadvantage is generally caused by the shortcomings of local, state, and federal government and cultural failures. Again, here is a link to enhance your understanding and knowledge-
Explaining the Black Education Gap | Wilson Quarterly

I am sure the government, states and federal, should be doing more for blighted inner cities and poor communities.

Finally, Concerning the growing income gap- This is indeed occurring, but is not unprecedented. In fact, it occurred even more so during the Industrial Revolution.

It means nothing to say that the disparity of wealth between the very few and 99% of the people always existed. If so, it was always wrong.

However income is only one measure of the General welfare of people. Consider that a person living in poverty today in the US (as defined by the Dept.of health and humor services) is living a lifestyle with many more luxuries than a middle class person of 1950. When societies have great advancements in technology and economic development those who procure these changes benefit the most, but the rest of the population also benefits. So here is your final link, and by simply reading these short articles you will have a much better understanding and appreciation for a regulated capitalist economy.
The Industrial Revolution: Working Class Poverty or Prosperity? | John Majewski

You are correct to say that income is only one measure of general wealth but it is one that we can control.
It is a myth that trickle down wealth benefits all because it doesn't. President Kennedy liked to say a rising tide lifts all boats but he was born to wealth.