Court Rejects Atheist's Claim Over Boy Scouts

[Bonnie]

Tuesday, May 30, 2006

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court rejected an appeal Tuesday from an atheist father over Boy Scout recruiting at his son's public school.

John Scalise had asked the court to bar public schools from opening their doors to Boy Scout recruiters and promoting membership, arguing that the group discriminates against nonreligious boys and parents by denying them membership if they don't swear to religious oaths.

Scalise's dispute with the Scouts dates back to 1998, when his son was a third-grader in Mount Pleasant, Mich.

He claims he and his son were barred from a Scout program at the elementary school because they would not pledge "to do my duty to God and my country." They are nonreligious Humanists.

Michigan courts ruled that the school-Scout partnership did not advance religion in violation of constitutional dictates.......

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197502,00.html

 

[dmp]

Woot :d

 

[acludem]

It is unfortanate that the Boy Scouts have become such a bigoted, homophobic organization that promotes hatred of non-Christians and homosexuals. I don't believe the founder intended to exclude boys based on their religious beliefs when the boy scout oath was written.

I do have a problem with this organization using facilities that my tax dollars fund. The Scouts certainly should not be allowed to recruit during school hours, and students who choose not to join shouldn't be humiliated by adults.

acludem

 

[5stringJeff]

It is unfortanate that the Boy Scouts have become such a bigoted, homophobic organization that promotes hatred of non-Christians and homosexuals. I don't believe the founder intended to exclude boys based on their religious beliefs when the boy scout oath was written.

I do have a problem with this organization using facilities that my tax dollars fund. The Scouts certainly should not be allowed to recruit during school hours, and students who choose not to join shouldn't be humiliated by adults.

acludem

As long as the school district gives equal right to all religious organizations, why is this a problem?

 

[CockySOB]

Lemme think for a minute....

Kids aren't being forced to participate in the Scouts, right?

The oath is part of being in Scouts, right?

But if the kids don't want to say the oath, they somehow have a right to belong to the organization anyway?

Bullshit.

If you don't like having to say the oath, create a new organization where such an oath isn't required.

But quit the incessant bitching and moaning....

 

[Annie]

It is unfortanate that the Boy Scouts have become such a bigoted, homophobic organization that promotes hatred of non-Christians and homosexuals. I don't believe the founder intended to exclude boys based on their religious beliefs when the boy scout oath was written.

I do have a problem with this organization using facilities that my tax dollars fund. The Scouts certainly should not be allowed to recruit during school hours, and students who choose not to join shouldn't be humiliated by adults.

acludem

They have not 'become' any such thing. They just are not willing to change based on those now wanting to make them do so. They are neither bigoted or homophobic. 'God' can be any higher power, ask any 12 stepper what that means, plenty of atheists and homosexuals use that formula.

 

[Abbey Normal]

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court rejected an appeal Tuesday from an atheist father over Boy Scout recruiting at his son's public school.

John Scalise had asked the court to bar public schools from opening their doors to Boy Scout recruiters and promoting membership, arguing that the group discriminates against nonreligious boys and parents by denying them membership if they don't swear to religious oaths.

Scalise's dispute with the Scouts dates back to 1998, when his son was a third-grader in Mount Pleasant, Mich.

He claims he and his son were barred from a Scout program at the elementary school because they would not pledge "to do my duty to God and my country." They are nonreligious Humanists.

Michigan courts ruled that the school-Scout partnership did not advance religion in violation of constitutional dictates.......

 

[nt250]

I'm an atheist and I will never understand why people like that go after the Boy Scouts.

I bet he wouldn't object to GLAAD in his sons school, would he?

 

[Hobbit]

It is unfortanate that the Boy Scouts have become such a bigoted, homophobic organization that promotes hatred of non-Christians and homosexuals. I don't believe the founder intended to exclude boys based on their religious beliefs when the boy scout oath was written.

I do have a problem with this organization using facilities that my tax dollars fund. The Scouts certainly should not be allowed to recruit during school hours, and students who choose not to join shouldn't be humiliated by adults.

acludem

Quit flapping your jaw about a terrific organization you know absolutely nothing about. You only think the Boy Scouts are so horrible because some pencil neck at the ACLU told you they were. Only a bunch of jackasses with an agenda could possibly think that an organization which:

keeps young children out of trouble
teaches survival skills
builds and maintains public facilities out of the goodness of their hearts
teaches boys to be nice to others
teaches respect, dignity, and discipline
and shows an otherwise wired society the value of natural wilderness

could possibly be a bad thing. You libs are wrecking everything for even yourselves by attacking people who uphold some of your values. Boy Scouts are strict conservationists who believe in preservation of the natural world, but because they don't goose step to the idea of homosexual endorsement and atheistic dogma, they're demonised.

You people make me sick.

 

[acludem]

The Boy Scouts do teach positive things, they also, in this case, teach that ostracizing and making fun of people who have different beliefs than you do is fun, and in the case of the national organization, that discrimination against homosexuals and non-Christians is a good thing. I hope the school is open to all organizations, if it's not, than there is religious discrimination there. BTW, I was in Boy Scouts for awhile, I did say the "God" thing but was always uncomfortable with it, that and the homophobia caused me to leave the organization. The Boy Scouts claim to be a private "religious" organization when it affords them tax and first amendment (i.e. discriminating against homosexuals and non-Christians) benefits, then they claim not to be a "religious" organization when their funding or free use of public property is threatened. Which are they???

acludem

 

[Hobbit]

The Boy Scouts do teach positive things, they also, in this case, teach that ostracizing and making fun of people who have different beliefs than you do is fun, and in the case of the national organization, that discrimination against homosexuals and non-Christians is a good thing. I hope the school is open to all organizations, if it's not, than there is religious discrimination there. BTW, I was in Boy Scouts for awhile, I did say the "God" thing but was always uncomfortable with it, that and the homophobia caused me to leave the organization. The Boy Scouts claim to be a private "religious" organization when it affords them tax and first amendment (i.e. discriminating against homosexuals and non-Christians) benefits, then they claim not to be a "religious" organization when their funding or free use of public property is threatened. Which are they???

acludem

If thatis the impression you have of the Boy Scouts, I have serious doubts that you were ever in the organization. Anybody who thinks the Boy Scouts teach that anybody should be ostracized for any reason is either determined to think that or has been misled. You're either a liar or a dupe, and either way, you need to plug your pie hole when it comes to things you know nothing about.

 

[Gunny]

It is unfortanate that the Boy Scouts have become such a bigoted, homophobic organization that promotes hatred of non-Christians and homosexuals. I don't believe the founder intended to exclude boys based on their religious beliefs when the boy scout oath was written.

I do have a problem with this organization using facilities that my tax dollars fund. The Scouts certainly should not be allowed to recruit during school hours, and students who choose not to join shouldn't be humiliated by adults.

acludem

Well, that's about as slanted an inaccurate a picture of the Boy Scouts as I have ever seen. The Boy Scouts teaches boys/young men a sense of duty and gives them something good to believe in rather than hanging around selling dope on the block.

But then, you probably disagree.

 

[acludem]

I spent about a year in Boy Scouts and I have a friend who is a Boy Scout Leader (though he does not share the National office's stated views on homosexuality and non-Christians). I do think there are benefits to Boy Scouts. It would just be nice to see the organization end it's discriminatory practices. Of course I should note that some local troops, I'm sure, do not participate in the National organization's program of discrimination.

acludem

 

[Gunny]

I spent about a year in Boy Scouts and I have a friend who is a Boy Scout Leader (though he does not share the National office's stated views on homosexuality and non-Christians). I do think there are benefits to Boy Scouts. It would just be nice to see the organization end it's discriminatory practices. Of course I should note that some local troops, I'm sure, do not participate in the National organization's program of discrimination.

acludem

I don't think they should end their practice of discrimination where gays and non-Christians are concerned. If you remove those fundamental believes from their core values, they are no longer the Boy Scouts.

I know this is hard for you to understand, but it IS okay to have an identity, and it IS okay to not include people you don't like and it does NOT make you a bad person.

 

[William Joyce]

I know this is hard for you to understand, but it IS okay to have an identity, and it IS okay to not include people you don't like and it does NOT make you a bad person.

You have in one sentence rejected the overriding belief of the Multicultural Globoplex. Someone from Homeland Security will be arriving at your door this evening to escort you away for retraining.

 

[jasendorf]

Maybe they should do like the Masons have done and just make the oath to Christ only necessary for the highest level... Masons can't reach 32nd degree without professing a belief in Christ... Scouts can't be Eagle Scouts without professing they are straight Christians...

problem solved.

 

[Annie]

Maybe they should do like the Masons have done and just make the oath to Christ only necessary for the highest level... Masons can't reach 32nd degree without professing a belief in Christ... Scouts can't be Eagle Scouts without professing they are straight Christians...

problem solved.

Scouts is not about just Christians:

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976754343

Scout uniform fades differences

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/atoz/article_1149300.php
http://tinyurl.com/gto5s

Four youths, each of a separate religion, bond over outdoor get-togethers and character-building activities in a Mission Viejo troop.

By MARK EADES
The Orange County Register
Saturday, May 20, 2006

MISSION VIEJO – Religious distinctions can be the source of a lot of strife in the world today, but for four Eagle Scouts friendship is more important.

Meet Amyn Shidi Jr., Daryl Davis, Geoff Leach and Tyler Barron – Eagle Scouts with four different faiths.

Shidi is Muslim, Davis is Jewish, Leach is a Lutheran and Barron is Catholic.

Despite the religious differences, they became the best of friends while spending 10 years together earning their Eagle Awards.

The "Four Amigos," as they call themselves, started as Tiger Cubs in 1995, when they met Geoff's dad, Rick Leach, the Scoutmaster. As they advanced to Boy Scouts and joined Troop 321 of Mission Viejo, Rick stayed with them, leading them throughout the entire 10-year journey.

While some may let religion get in the way of getting along, the boys feel differently.

"People shouldn't get hung up on the different religions," Shidi said.

"It's not about religion," Davis said. "It's about being friends."

"It's about character and who you are," Geoff Leach said.

"We're good friends," Barron said. "Religion shouldn't matter. People should matter."

Along the way they've been on numerous camp-outs together, including the National Jamboree, hiked hundreds of miles and earned 152 merit badges among them. Sometimes the journey had some rough bumps.

"There were times when I didn't want to do it," Davis said. "I was ready to quit a couple of times."

But they had their own support system, their friendship.

"It gets harder the more you move up in the ranks," Geoff Leach said. "But we kept pushing and helping each other."

They all agreed that wanting to hang out together at Scout meetings helped, along with the occasional "bonding" activities at camp.

"Amyn and Geoff were in a canoe on a lake one morning," Rick Leach said. "The water was as smooth as glass. I turned around. When I turned back around the canoe had overturned."

"I don't know why it overturned," Geoff Leach said. "Amyn's a good swimmer, and we got everything out of the water OK. We're lucky none of the sleeping bags were ours."

One time they went to the Boy Scouts' Lost Valley campground right after a forest fire had swept through the place.

"It was barren, and there were still hot spots," Shidi said. "We went around them and planted a bunch of trees."

Sometimes they'll just hang out at one another's houses and play cards - Geoff Leach is the best poker player, according to the others - or offer one another advice about girls.

"We're trying to help Amyn get a girlfriend," Barron said as the others laughed and Shidi briskly shook his head.

The guys agree on who is the best-dressed (Barron) and geekiest (Geoff Leach) and that their Eagle community-service project was the hardest thing they had to do.

"We probably killed a couple of trees with all the paperwork we had to do documenting the Eagle project," Shidi said.

But in the end they stuck together until each earned his Eagle honor.

"You should definitely stick with it," Geoff Leach said. "It's about commitment."

"It took a lot of work, but it was worth it," Shidi said. "We've been together 10 years. Not a lot of people can say that."

Will they continue as friends? Though they are all now more than 16 years old and more concerned with girls and getting their driver's licenses, the man who led them on their journey thinks they will.

"There are less than a handful of people that you'll keep in touch with the rest of your life," Rick Leach said. "These boys will because of their accomplishment and because they're friends."

"We started together and finished together," Barron said. "That's something special."

 

[jasendorf]

Fair enough... then simply make it an oath that you're a straight God-fearing-whatever to become an Eagle Scout. The plan is open to reworking.

I'm all for individual choice... just don't cry at me because I choose to not support the United Way or the Boy Scouts because their vision of "diversity" differs from mine. That's what most of the uproar is about... the Boy Scouts crying that they're not getting fund from sources they used to get funds from. The Scouts want it both ways... they demanded to be recognized as a private organization that can pick and choose who is eligible for membership based on a criteria which has nothing to do with their Mission Statement AND they are demanding to be subsidized through the United Way. In my eyes, you can't have both.

 

[acludem]

That's exactly what I said Jasendorf. They are trying to have their proverbial cake and eat it too. If you want to a private organization that exludes certain groups of people don't ask to use public, tax-payer funded facilities to have your meetings.

BTW, the four eagle scouts are all from religions that preach belief in some sort of "God". I didn't see a Buddhist, Hindu or Atheist in there.

acludem

 

[CockySOB]

That's exactly what I said Jasendorf. They are trying to have their proverbial cake and eat it too. If you want to a private organization that exludes certain groups of people don't ask to use public, tax-payer funded facilities to have your meetings.

As long as the facilities are available to other private organizations, what's the problem? Or are you saying that taxpayors should not be allowed to use the facilities they helped pay for simply because they have a theme you dislike? Seems to me that preventing groups (including tax payors) like the scouts from using available public facilities is an example of a violation of first ammendment protections.

BTW, the four eagle scouts are all from religions that preach belief in some sort of "God". I didn't see a Buddhist, Hindu or Atheist in there.

acludem

As long as Young Buddhists of America aren't prevented from using the same facilities, I don't see a problem.