Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[Osomir]

ha, that's funny - I have that book on my reading pile to read - I heard her interviewed and was very impressed so I picked up History of God and her biography of Mohammed

It's really nice because relative to other biographies of Muhammad it is pretty easy to read. English is the language it was written in so it's not a translation, nor was it written in the old classical lingual style, and it manages to not be too dry like some history texts can be. It is probably one of the best biographies of Muhammad to start of with.

 

[Coyote]

And now a dose of reality:
Child marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lower legally allowed marriage age does not necessarily cause high rates of child marriages. However, there is a causative correlation between restrictions placed by laws and the average age of first marriage. In the United States, per 1960 Census data, 3.5% of girls married before the age of 16, while an additional 11.9% married between 16 and 18. States with lower marriage age limits saw higher percentages of child marriages.[7] This correlation between higher age of marriage in civil law and observed frequency of child marriages breaks down in countries with Islam as the state religion. In Islamic nations, many countries do not allow child marriage of girls under their civil code of laws. But, the state recognized Sharia religious laws and courts in all these nations have the power to override the civil code, and often do. UNICEF reports that the top five nations in the world - Niger (75%), Chad (72%), Mali (71%), Bangladesh (64%), Guinea (63%) - with highest observed child marriage rates are all Islamic majority countries.[2]

Yes, though I already pointed out that those countries were amongst the highest - not Saudi Arabia or Iran. Those countries are also extremely poor.

If you go to the article that is linked to your quote, it shows how poverty is strongly causitive: http://www.unicef.org/sowc09/docs/SOWC09-CountryExample-Mali.pdf

What Sharia law mandates child marriages?

Note - most of these marriages are not young children as you keep going on about, they are teenaged girls.

Read it again:

"the state recognized Sharia religious laws and courts in all these nations have the power to override the civil code, and often do. UNICEF reports"

What Sharia law or where in the Quran is child marriage mandated?

 

[Roudy]

$he wa$? I told you he wa$ a $mart guy marrying for money.

That's pretty presumptuous for someone who has never read a book on Islam, or a biography of Muhammad, or even knows the contents of the Quran and Hadiths.

Seriously, i'm just embarrassed for you at this point.

Actually I should say the same about you. You make all these outrageous unsubstaniated claims and when challenged you never have anything to show. Other than claim that your knowledge of Islam is more. I give you that. But what you would *LIKE TO* promote about Islam and Muslims is not the same as the truth.

 

[Osomir]

and while we're at it...why is it some folks are only concerned about child abuse in Muslim countries?

Because he doesn't actually care about child abuse, he seems to simply care about justifying his hatred for Islam.

I also find it rather amusing that he admits that there are other causes for child marriage, but thinks that all Muslim countries are immune to those causes and that it MUST be Islam there.

 

[Coyote]

and while we're at it...why is it some folks are only concerned about child abuse in Muslim countries?

Because he doesn't actually care about child abuse, he seems to simply care about justifying his hatred for Islam.

I also find it rather amusing that he admits that there are other causes for child marriage, but thinks that all Muslim countries are immune to those causes and that it MUST be Islam there.

Sad, because it IS a serious problem world wide and it DOES need attention. It is very tied in to poverty a host of other reasons that make it difficult to irradicate.

Much easier to simply blame it on a religion.

 

[Roudy]

Yes, though I already pointed out that those countries were amongst the highest - not Saudi Arabia or Iran. Those countries are also extremely poor.

If you go to the article that is linked to your quote, it shows how poverty is strongly causitive: http://www.unicef.org/sowc09/docs/SOWC09-CountryExample-Mali.pdf

What Sharia law mandates child marriages?

Note - most of these marriages are not young children as you keep going on about, they are teenaged girls.

...the state recognized Sharia religious laws and courts in all these nations have the power to override the civil code, and often do. UNICEF reports that the top five nations in the world - Niger (75%), Chad (72%), Mali (71%), Bangladesh (64%), Guinea (63%) - with highest observed child marriage rates are all Islamic majority countries.[2]

Coincidence?!

I rest my case, your Honor.

Correlation is not necessarily causality. True dat. I can cite countless examples.

So prove causality my friend.



and while we're at it...why is it some folks are only concerned about child abuse in Muslim countries?

According to the the source I cited, if A- majority of child brides occur in Muslim majority countries
and B- Muslims cite Mohammad's marriage to Aisha as model for such behavior, then C- Islam is the cause of this phenomenon.

To recap, most sources seem to indicate that the cause for child brides is due to Islamic teachings and Mohammad's life. Are they bigoted too? LOL

 

[Roudy]

and while we're at it...why is it some folks are only concerned about child abuse in Muslim countries?

Because he doesn't actually care about child abuse, he seems to simply care about justifying his hatred for Islam.

I also find it rather amusing that he admits that there are other causes for child marriage, but thinks that all Muslim countries are immune to those causes and that it MUST be Islam there.

No I am saying that in Muslim countries where it is legal and culturally acceptable to marry 9 year olds it is because of Mohammad and Islamic teachings. And so far you haven't been able to make a dent in that claim. I speak from life experience whereas you speak as a desperado face saver, jumping from one limb to another. Like I said, you can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig.

 

[Osomir]

Keyword "was".

It's still used to justify pretty horrible acts. The war criminal Charles Taylor was a baptist deacon for example, that doesn't make Christianity a causal variable of the Liberian civil war, or of the Conflict in the DR Congo where soldiers of God rape and kill, or of the LRA which burns down school houses.

It's unfair to treat religion that way, and does a lot of damage by ignoring the real roots of problems concerning these issues.

 

[Roudy]

ha, that's funny - I have that book on my reading pile to read - I heard her interviewed and was very impressed so I picked up History of God and her biography of Mohammed

It's really nice because relative to other biographies of Muhammad it is pretty easy to read. English is the language it was written in so it's not a translation, nor was it written in the old classical lingual style, and it manages to not be too dry like some history texts can be. It is probably one of the best biographies of Muhammad to start of with.

The Koran in all it's gory glory serves as the best biography of Mohammad.

 

[Roudy]

Oh my God, I can't believe it. Now we're back to the same old same old often repeated talking points "soldiers of God"...brrrrrr. We are talking about child brides in Muslim countries, and the allegation that it is not because of Islam. Do you guys have anything other than more of these false comparisons.

You really think people are that stupid to actually believe it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM AND MOHAMMAD'S MARRIAGE TO AN EIGHT YEAR OLD? Seriously.

 

[Coyote]

Coincidence?!

I rest my case, your Honor.

Correlation is not necessarily causality. True dat. I can cite countless examples.

So prove causality my friend.



and while we're at it...why is it some folks are only concerned about child abuse in Muslim countries?

According to the the source I cited, if A- majority of child brides occur in Muslim majority countries
and B- Muslims cite Mohammad's marriage to Aisha as model for such behavior, then C- Islam is the cause of this phenomenon.

What Muslims?

To recap, most sources seem to indicate that the cause for child brides is due to Islamic teachings and Mohammad's life. Are they bigoted too? LOL

What "most sources"?

 

[Coyote]

Oh my God, I can't believe it. Now we're back to the same old same old often repeated talking points "soldiers of God"...brrrrrr. We are talking about child brides in Muslim countries, and the allegation that it is not because of Islam. Do you guys have anything other than more of these false comparisons.

You really think people are that stupid to actually believe it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM AND MOHAMMAD'S MARRIAGE TO AN EIGHT YEAR OLD? Seriously.

No one is saying it has "nothing" to do with Islam. After all, there are Christian sects that interpret their teachings to mean they can live in bigamy and marry children too.

Just that it has far less to do with Islam than other reasons.

Ever notice that the majority of Muslims do NOT marry 9 yr olds? Strange that.

 

[Osomir]

No I am saying that in Muslim countries where it is legal and culturally acceptable to marry 9 year olds it is because of Mohammad and Islamic teachings. And so far you haven't been able to make a dent in that claim. I speak from life experience whereas you speak as a desperado face saver, jumping from one limb to another. Like I said, you can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig.

Yemen is the only country in the world where the state has the marriage age set to nine. In any other country such a marriage if allowed at all would require a formal court ruling. You're being dishonest again. Though Brunei doesn't have a legal age of consent. Even in places where child marriage is highest as a percentage of the population (like Niger) the legal age of marriage is set at 15.

You may also be interested to know that the Yemeni government is pushing to have the age of marriage set at 16 or 17 currently as well.

you're "street knowledge" isn't serving you too well.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy, *you* are the one making the claim here - it's up to you to show the proof

Wow, you guys are actually proposing that it ISN'T because of Islam that Muslim men are allowed to marry 9 year olds? It's pretty much a given, even Muslims realize and admit it.

Are you actually ready for the barrage of proof about to come down on this thread?

Christianity was used to justify all manner of things including the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade for example. That doesn't mean it is a causal variable of slavery.

Sure. And the word black and slave in in Koran and Arabic "abd or abda" are the same, as Muslims were the biggest slave traders. For example the name "abdallah" or better known "Abdullah" means slave to Allah. So therefore by your logic Islam promoted racism and slavery then. But that is not what I am claiming.

What I am claiming and is indesputable fact, is the reason for Muslim child brides is Mohammad's marriage to Aisha in Islam.

 

[Osomir]

The Koran in all it's gory glory serves as the best biography of Mohammad.

And yet, not only have you never read it, you have no idea what is inside it either as was proven earlier.

As a side note, nowhere in the Quran does it state that Muslims are allowed to marry 9 year olds or prepubescent girls. The issue of Aisha comes from hadiths.

 

[Roudy]

Correlation is not necessarily causality. True dat. I can cite countless examples.

So prove causality my friend.



and while we're at it...why is it some folks are only concerned about child abuse in Muslim countries?

According to the the source I cited, if A- majority of child brides occur in Muslim majority countries
and B- Muslims cite Mohammad's marriage to Aisha as model for such behavior, then C- Islam is the cause of this phenomenon.

What Muslims?

To recap, most sources seem to indicate that the cause for child brides is due to Islamic teachings and Mohammad's life. Are they bigoted too? LOL

What "most sources"?

Aw come on, you of all people, with all your intenet capabilities? The world is at your fingertips my friend.

 

[Roudy]

The Koran in all it's gory glory serves as the best biography of Mohammad.

And yet, not only have you never read it, you have no idea what is inside it either as was proven earlier.

As a side note, nowhere in the Quran does it state that Muslims are allowed to marry 9 year olds or prepubescent girls. The age thing stems solely from hadiths.

I have read parts of it.

 

[Osomir]

No I am saying that in Muslim countries where it is legal and culturally acceptable to marry 9 year olds it is because of Mohammad and Islamic teachings. And so far you haven't been able to make a dent in that claim. I speak from life experience whereas you speak as a desperado face saver, jumping from one limb to another. Like I said, you can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig.

So essentially you are only talking about Yemen then.

 

[Osomir]

I have read parts of it.

Not much apparently.

 

[Coyote]

Wow, you guys are actually proposing that it ISN'T because of Islam that Muslim men are allowed to marry 9 year olds? It's pretty much a given, even Muslims realize and admit it.

Are you actually ready for the barrage of proof about to come down on this thread?

Christianity was used to justify all manner of things including the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade for example. That doesn't mean it is a causal variable of slavery.

Sure. And the word black and slave in in Koran and Arabic "abd or abda" are the same, as Muslims were the biggest slave traders. For example the name "abdallah" or better known "Abdullah" means slave to Allah. So therefore by your logic Islam promoted racism and slavery then. But that is not what I am claiming.

What I am claiming and is indesputable fact, is the reason for Muslim child brides is Mohammad's marriage to Aisha in Islam.

You've repeated that over and over and over...

but have yet to support it.

Why does child marriage happen?
Thomson Reuters Foundation | News, Information and Connections for Action
Child Marriage - Facts Causes and Consequences of Child Marriage and Sexual Abuse of Children
Child Marriage Factsheet | Equality Now

None mention Mohammad's marriage. In fact none mention religion as a causitive reason.