Chicago: Nip It In The Bud

[JimBowie1958]

As I've said....I'm as pro cop as anyone here. Did the job 8 years. There IS A LINE that cops cannot cross. The public does in fact give quite a bit of leeway for cops under stress....like Darren Wilson.

This officer crossed that line. He threw himself under this bus. No way around it.

I disagree. I think it quite likely that the cop had encountered this kid just before and saw he was doped up. When the kid still refused to obey orders and got within 12' of his partner with a knife, I think the cop was entirely justified in killing the ******* thug.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Again, what happened before this does NOT matter. Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in the real world and don't get to shoot some kid walking down the street who at that moment was not threatening another human being. The eyewitnesses, which include 7 other police officers, have fully corroborated what is on the dash cam. You can now go **** yourself.

An armed thug with a knife who gets within 12' of a cop is a threat, idiot.

 

[AceRothstein]

Again, what happened before this does NOT matter. Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in the real world and don't get to shoot some kid walking down the street who at that moment was not threatening another human being. The eyewitnesses, which include 7 other police officers, have fully corroborated what is on the dash cam. You can now go **** yourself.

An armed thug with a knife who gets within 12' of a cop is a threat, idiot.

He was walking away from the cop, dumbass. WATCH THE ******* VIDEO. If you have, get your ******* eyes checked.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Again, what happened before this does NOT matter. Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in the real world and don't get to shoot some kid walking down the street who at that moment was not threatening another human being. The eyewitnesses, which include 7 other police officers, have fully corroborated what is on the dash cam. You can now go **** yourself.

You clearly do not know law.
Again, and this is getting tiresome...I know it is convenient to your opinion on the matter to ignore my point.
Police officers have legal protections beyond a citizen, obviously as they should.
And one of those protections is when a homicide takes place.
If this was two citizens, the guy with the gun would be charged with murder point blank. No question. But this is an officer of the law. And when an officer commits a homicide under question, for it to be MURDER - it must be 2 things - vicious intent...and without provocation.
If this kid was unarmed, if he didn't have his hand in his jacket, if he obeyed the officers and had his hands up or at least stood still and he was shot dead - murder. That would indeed be unprovoked homicide. Officers are given leeway and "heat of the moment" is a legal defense. You may not like that, but it is.
The kid refusing to stand down, everything that occurred before the video, his quick turn and motioning towards the police is certainly provocation. End of argument.
He will walk. Guaranteed. Unless they charge him with voluntary manslaughter, that might stick.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Again, what happened before this does NOT matter. Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in the real world and don't get to shoot some kid walking down the street who at that moment was not threatening another human being. The eyewitnesses, which include 7 other police officers, have fully corroborated what is on the dash cam. You can now go **** yourself.

An armed thug with a knife who gets within 12' of a cop is a threat, idiot.

He was walking away from the cop, dumbass. WATCH THE ******* VIDEO. If you have, get your ******* eyes checked.

He was not walking away from the cops. He was walking at a perpendicular direction to the cops, bringing them closer, and it isnt like he cant suddenly change direction anyway, dumbass.

 

[AceRothstein]

Again, what happened before this does NOT matter. Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in the real world and don't get to shoot some kid walking down the street who at that moment was not threatening another human being. The eyewitnesses, which include 7 other police officers, have fully corroborated what is on the dash cam. You can now go **** yourself.

An armed thug with a knife who gets within 12' of a cop is a threat, idiot.

He was walking away from the cop, dumbass. WATCH THE ******* VIDEO. If you have, get your ******* eyes checked.

He was not walking away from the cops. He was walking at a perpendicular direction to the cops, bringing them closer, and it isnt like he cant suddenly change direction anyway, dumbass.

So because he might change direction then the cop can shoot him 14 times while he is laying on the ground incapacitated? Got it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So because he might change direction then the cop can shoot him 14 times while he is laying on the ground incapacitated? Got it.

Yes, dumbass, the cop can. When the cop is telling the perp to lay down or put his hands behind his back and does not do it, and presents a threat to the cop the cop can and should shoot the little bastard DEAD.

 

[AceRothstein]

So because he might change direction then the cop can shoot him 14 times while he is laying on the ground incapacitated? Got it.

Yes, dumbass, the cop can. When the cop is telling the perp to lay down or put his hands behind his back and does not do it, and presents a threat to the cop the cop can and should shoot the little bastard DEAD.

Now I know you're just an asshole. Not listening to a cop and walking down the street does not equal a threat.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Now I know you're just an asshole. Not listening to a cop and walking down the street does not equal a threat.

It doesnt always, but when resisting arrest and walking closer in a tangential direction, yes, it does and rightly so.

 

[JoeB131]

No apology necessary for me. I am not rooting for anyone.
Two important factors...
1) Again - to convict someone of murder you MUST show vicious intent. It can be premeditated, which of course this isn't, or chose to kill on the spot...either way you MUST show a willful intent to kill. Having said that, an officer on duty has special legal considerations. For murder the homicide MUST be without provocation. Clearly as the video shows - there was provocation. In that half second the teenager turned quickly, started to advance towards the officers, and raised his hand with an object, at the officers.

2) WHILE on the ground...you can see he lifted the object towards the officers again.
That officer can claim he believed it to be a weapon still, or was not sure what it was.

If charged with murder, he will walk. The defense will easily show provocation. And the jurors will be forced to find not guilty.
It has happened again and again.
Charge him with voluntary manslaughter. And that might stick. Maybe.

You are making a legal distinction that isn't gong to matter to jurors. If you think 12 Chicagoans are going to look at this teen being shot 16 times and say, "Well, I'm sure he didn't go out wanting to kill someone", you are delusional. When they hear about the this guy's long record of abusing citizens, they just won't care.

 

[jc456]

I don't think you've seen all of the chase ahead of the shooting and he did go at one cop car twirling his knife. Me don't think you all have enough facts.

 

[jc456]

The officer already claimed it was a knife so he can't say that he thought it might have been gun at this point. Someone laying on the ground with a knife with multiple bullet holes in them is not a threat.

Bullshit. You obviously do not know what the hell you are talking about, you lying shit-bag.

Watch the ******* video, you ******* dumbass knuckle dragger. The kid was never a threat to the cops which is why the 7 other cops that were there didn't fire a shot.

He was a threat. Why do you think so many cops were dispatched to the scene, you stupid ************? The video only captures a moment in all of this.

I got a kick out of the john wayne walk the kid was using. His strut said fk you all I'm king, watch my ass walk over here. I do believe the kid was still moving on shot nine. People do not know the impact of pcp on a human being. With that in evidence and the knife, it will be very hard for them to get first degree murder. manslaughter most likely, but not first degree. There is enough history of human behavior while on pcp.

Confirmed tonight, sixteen shots and the kid was still alive.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Again, what happened before this does NOT matter. Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in the real world and don't get to shoot some kid walking down the street who at that moment was not threatening another human being. The eyewitnesses, which include 7 other police officers, have fully corroborated what is on the dash cam. You can now go **** yourself.

An armed thug with a knife who gets within 12' of a cop is a threat, idiot.

He was walking away from the cop, dumbass. WATCH THE ******* VIDEO. If you have, get your ******* eyes checked.

A handgun closes the distance. Matters not where he was walking. His hand was in his pocket. Watch the fuckin' video. There is reason to believe his hand was on a gun in his pocket.

 

[JoeB131]

Since he was brandishing a knife, I would assume he was ISIS. Taking him down is justified. No jury will convict.

ISIS... or Palestinian. Israel security forces would have put a bullet in his head immediately.

Israel is a fascist apartheid state none of would want to emulate. Even Jews are increasingly embarrassed by the whole thing.

 

[JoeB131]

The kid committed suicide, and his family hit the lottery ($5 mil. Settlement).

You don't pay 5 million dollar settlements if your cop was in the right. You pay five million dollar settlements to hush the problem up.

 

[JoeB131]

A handgun closes the distance. Matters not where he was walking. His hand was in his pocket. Watch the fuckin' video. There is reason to believe his hand was on a gun in his pocket.

I've watched the video. There was no real justification for what this cop did.

I do find it amusing that the same right wing gun nuts who stock up like the Zombies are coming because they are so afraid of the government are soooo keen to excuse a blatant example of government abuse of force... when it involves a black person.

 

[JoeB131]

In other words, you are quite comfortable destroy the lives of that cop and his family based upon a 10 second segment of a video, without audio, despite everything that happened before or after? Further, you are ok with passing judgment right here and now based upon what your puny little brain is able to discern from this 10 second selection from the dash cam video WITHOUT hearing from eyewitnesses and learning more about everything that went down?

Frankly, it is not like what happened after really bolsters your case. Afterwards, the police chased off witnesses and destroyed CCTV footage taken from a nearby Burger King that caught the incident from another angle. The police also lied in reports saying that this kid "lunged" at them when you can clearly see from the video, he didn't.

This cop is probably going to take the weight for this, but his superiors also need to be fired.

 

[JoeB131]

I got a kick out of the john wayne walk the kid was using. His strut said fk you all I'm king, watch my ass walk over here. I do believe the kid was still moving on shot nine. People do not know the impact of pcp on a human being. With that in evidence and the knife, it will be very hard for them to get first degree murder. manslaughter most likely, but not first degree. There is enough history of human behavior while on pcp.

again, i think you are delusional. By the time this gets to trial, we are all going to have heard what a bad apple this cop was, how he was a disaster looking for a place to happen.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't think you've seen all of the chase ahead of the shooting and he did go at one cop car twirling his knife. Me don't think you all have enough facts.

16 shots, 15 of them when the kid was on the ground. I don't think we need any other facts other than that.

But if you want to talk about the other 20 civilian complaints against Jason van Dyke, I'm happy to do so.

Chicago Cop Charged in Teen’s Slaying Has History of Complaints for Misconduct

 

[jc456]

A handgun closes the distance. Matters not where he was walking. His hand was in his pocket. Watch the fuckin' video. There is reason to believe his hand was on a gun in his pocket.

I've watched the video. There was no real justification for what this cop did.

I do find it amusing that the same right wing gun nuts who stock up like the Zombies are coming because they are so afraid of the government are soooo keen to excuse a blatant example of government abuse of force... when it involves a black person.

Prove that statement