Capitalism----Dirty word ?

[dilloduck]

I remember growing up hearing the commies "insult" the US by slinging around the words "Capitalist pigs". Now Americans are doing it. The America that has existed for over 200 years was created by it and our comforts are the results of it yet there are those who continually refuse to accept it's intrinsic nature. What's the deal ? People hate what they can't control ? People don't like to compete? It's somehow "unfair" ? It converts people into materialists ?

( no--It's not a homework assignment ):teeth:

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Some people who rail against "capitalism" are actually railing against the evils of mercantilism. Mercantilism is also known as state-capitalism or economic fascism. Basically you have certain politically-favored businesses or industries which are granted special treatment through government regulation. For example, sugar companies lobby to get a tariff on foreign sugar, thus soft drinks in the US are now made with corn syrup.

The problem is, most people who are against state-capitalism are absolutely gushing with love for government, and wish to restrict or punish the capitalism part of the equation. But the problem is political, not economic. We need to get rid of government's role in regulating economics, so that favors cannot be auctioned off the the highest bidder. (Note: when I say "regulating economics", I do not mean property rights enforcement, contract enforcement, or prohibitions against fraud. Those are legitimate functions of government.)

Of course, there are also those who simply hate economic freedoms which enable people to live in ways they don't like.

 

[Hobbit]

Some people who rail against "capitalism" are actually railing against the evils of mercantilism. Mercantilism is also known as state-capitalism or economic fascism. Basically you have certain politically-favored businesses or industries which are granted special treatment through government regulation. For example, sugar companies lobby to get a tariff on foreign sugar, thus soft drinks in the US are now made with corn syrup.

The problem is, most people who are against state-capitalism are absolutely gushing with love for government, and wish to restrict or punish the capitalism part of the equation. But the problem is political, not economic. We need to get rid of government's role in regulating economics, so that favors cannot be auctioned off the the highest bidder. (Note: when I say "regulating economics", I do not mean property rights enforcement, contract enforcement, or prohibitions against fraud. Those are legitimate functions of government.)

Of course, there are also those who simply hate economic freedoms which enable people to live in ways they don't like.

There, fixed it for ya. Gotta love those hanging brackets.

Anyway, yeah, you're right. So many people seem to equate capitalism with mercantilism. One is smart, libertarian, and allows society to function at maximum efficiency. The other is dumb, authoritarian, and allows those in power to gain votes at a somewhat high efficiency.

As for the sugar thing, I'd pay extra for soda sweetened with sugar. This corn syrup stuff just isn't good for ya, but not so much so that I'm giving up Code Red or switching to diet.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

There, fixed it for ya. Gotta love those hanging brackets.

Anyway, yeah, you're right. So many people seem to equate capitalism with mercantilism. One is smart, libertarian, and allows society to function at maximum efficiency. The other is dumb, authoritarian, and allows those in power to gain votes at a somewhat high efficiency.

As for the sugar thing, I'd pay extra for soda sweetened with sugar. This corn syrup stuff just isn't good for ya, but not so much so that I'm giving up Code Red or switching to diet.

But on this board, anyone who wants to protect the nations citizenship laws, national sovereignty, or the most basic worker protection laws, is labelled a communist. One poster has even declared that laws agains child labor are "outdated". This is dangerously naive. There is no guarantee things will always be good, and businesses are not naturally as pure as the wind driven snow.

The anything for a buck attitude that prevails these days is sickening and immoral.

Divest from China!

Protect Our Borders!

Whites have Rights too!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Well, it looks like I flipped the baron. Any of you brainwash victims got something to say? You know who you are.

 

[dilloduck]

But on this board, anyone who wants to protect the nations citizenship laws, national sovereignty, or the most basic worker protection laws, is labelled a communist. One poster has even declared that laws agains child labor are "outdated". This is dangerously naive. There is no guarantee things will always be good, and businesses are not naturally as pure as the wind driven snow.

The anything for a buck attitude that prevails these days is sickening and immoral.

Divest from China!

Protect Our Borders!

Whites have Rights too!

Capitalism never did seem to fit with Christian teachings and expecting politicians to not provide thier supporters with some sort of "reward" is pretty far fetched. I'm not really sure if people were criticizing out morality or our politicians greed.

 

[Romeo]

Capitalism never did seem to fit with Christian teachings and expecting politicians to not provide thier supporters with some sort of "reward" is pretty far fetched. I'm not really sure if people were criticizing out morality or our politicians greed.

Capitalism is compatible with christianity. But the moral system (christianity) must be the superseding moral authority, providing a framework for conducting capitalism, not the other way around. Christianity condones knife usage, that doesn't mean you should go a killing spree.

I noticed this guy, RiftWingAgitator, seems to be having a problem with board authorities, and opted to speak on his behalf in this matter. We seem to think similarly.

 

[dilloduck]

Capitalism is compatible with christianity. But the moral system (christianity) must be the superseding moral authority, providing a framework for conducting capitalism, not the other way around. Christianity condones knife usage, that doesn't mean you should go a killing spree.

I noticed this guy, RiftWingAgitator, seems to be having a problem with board authorities, and opted to speak on his behalf in this matter. We seem to think similarly.

Mybe I'm using the wrong word but isn't capitalism dependent on materialism and consumerism to succeed? Neither one of those is high on Jesus' list of moral "do's" .

 

[Romeo]

Mybe I'm using the wrong word but isn't capitalism dependent on materialism and consumerism to succeed? Neither one of those is high on Jesus' list of moral "do's" .

Some materialism, yes. People need goods to survive. Christianity is not an ascetic religion. But again, this doesn't mean jesus would approve of selling crack to children to finance a premium sneaker and Hummer addiction. Materialism must be prioritized along with other things in life, and decisions made according to the moral framework. This is how moral systems work.

Don't let the forces of extremist factionalism push you into these pernicious modes of all or nothing thinking.

 

[Hobbit]

Mybe I'm using the wrong word but isn't capitalism dependent on materialism and consumerism to succeed? Neither one of those is high on Jesus' list of moral "do's" .

Not necessarily. Capitalism relies on a form of materialism, but is completely compatible with altruism. The only thing needed for capitalism to work is for each individual to have a desire to make a profit. Some are materialistic and spend their profit on indulgences, while others are altruistic and use their profits to help people. Either way, the person has a vested interest in making a profit, and capitalism continues to thrive. While capitalism my have slightly varying effects on different societies, depending on the level of altruism (altruistic societies won't have PS3 shootings, but it will still have competing electronics stores), it still functions the same as ever.

 

[Bonnie]

I remember growing up hearing the commies "insult" the US by slinging around the words "Capitalist pigs". Now Americans are doing it. The America that has existed for over 200 years was created by it and our comforts are the results of it yet there are those who continually refuse to accept it's intrinsic nature. What's the deal ? People hate what they can't control ? People don't like to compete? It's somehow "unfair" ? It converts people into materialists ?

( no--It's not a homework assignment ):teeth:

Well Gwynny Paltrow seems to think so..I guess she will be giving back all the millions she made on her movies and her Estee Lauder perfume contract any day now??

 

[dilloduck]

Not necessarily. Capitalism relies on a form of materialism, but is completely compatible with altruism. The only thing needed for capitalism to work is for each individual to have a desire to make a profit. Some are materialistic and spend their profit on indulgences, while others are altruistic and use their profits to help people. Either way, the person has a vested interest in making a profit, and capitalism continues to thrive. While capitalism my have slightly varying effects on different societies, depending on the level of altruism (altruistic societies won't have PS3 shootings, but it will still have competing electronics stores), it still functions the same as ever.

Using your definition of indulgences I assume you include the means to survive. Does that then define the line between greed and altruism? Capitalism as practiced in America appears dependent on convincing individuals that they need more therefore forcing them to seek a larger profit.

 

[Hobbit]

Using your definition of indulgences I assume you include the means to survive. Does that then define the line between greed and altruism? Capitalism as practiced in America appears dependent on convincing individuals that they need more therefore forcing them to seek a larger profit.

Yes, there is a lot of consumerism in America, and while it may be bad for people's souls, it isn't bad for the economy (oh, and by 'indulgences,' I meant the things people get for their own self-gratification, not things needed to survive). Much of the culture teaches you to acquire more faster and look better than the next guy. Some people reject this view and spend enough to be content (usually buying some indulgences, but not with the voracity of the materialists), putting the rest towards the future or to the bettering of those with less than them. Either way, capitalism continues to work. Remember, capitalism does not care from or to where the money flows, so long as it flows.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes, there is a lot of consumerism in America, and while it may be bad for people's souls, it isn't bad for the economy (oh, and by 'indulgences,' I meant the things people get for their own self-gratification, not things needed to survive). Much of the culture teaches you to acquire more faster and look better than the next guy. Some people reject this view and spend enough to be content (usually buying some indulgences, but not with the voracity of the materialists), putting the rest towards the future or to the bettering of those with less than them. Either way, capitalism continues to work. Remember, capitalism does not care from or to where the money flows, so long as it flows.

Never said it doesn't work----it just throws a lot of challenges at Christians who are urged the wear the world as a loose garment.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Never said it doesn't work----it just throws a lot of challenges at Christians who are urged the wear the world as a lose garment.

It's only a challenge if your status means more to you than your soul. Prioritizing all of life in accordance with your religion is what people used to always do. Only recently with the new neocon guilt free slavery and fascism is this bedrock of humanity being questioned.

 

[dilloduck]

It's only a challenge if your status means more to you than your soul. Prioritizing all of life in accordance with your religion is what people used to always do. Only recently with the new neocon guilt free slavery and fascism is this bedrock of humanity being questioned.

well that's a lot of hooey-----mans' morals have been questioned forever

 

[rtwngAvngr]

well that's a lot of hooey-----mans' morals have been questioned forever

But only recently has the allegedly moral christian right justified slave labor if it turns a profit. Only recently have the churchgoing fought tooth and nail for low labor standards, dissolved borders and slavery, all in the name of profit.

 

[manu1959]

I remember growing up hearing the commies "insult" the US by slinging around the words "Capitalist pigs". Now Americans are doing it. The America that has existed for over 200 years was created by it and our comforts are the results of it yet there are those who continually refuse to accept it's intrinsic nature. What's the deal ? People hate what they can't control ? People don't like to compete? It's somehow "unfair" ? It converts people into materialists ?

( no--It's not a homework assignment ):teeth:

everyone is against capitalism as long as it does not affect their health care, raise or bonus.......