Can wild CEO Pay Be Tamed? Probably Not

sealybobo

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Jun 5, 2008
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Lehman Bros.’ Richard Fuld, $40 million.
Merrill Lynch’s Stanley O’Neal, $46 million.
Bear Stearns' James Cayne, $40 million.
Freddie Mac’s Richard Syron, just shy of $20 million.
Fannie Mae’s Daniel Mudd, $12.2 million.

As the nation’s financial system was crumbling, the CEOs who were in charge of the most troubled financial firms pocketed fat paychecks during their final full year on the job — and that doesn’t include the golden parachutes they got when they walked away.
Public outrage over this disconnect has caused Congress to step in and try to do something about skyrocketing executive compensation. But history shows that government attempts have been weak, at best, when it comes to curtailing CEO riches.
Why? Because regulators never go far enough in giving shareholders a true voice. It’s difficult to break up entrenched boards of directors that make the decisions on executive compensation.
Even the $700 billion bailout package that is fighting for life on Capitol Hill doesn’t have the teeth to put a lid on these financial windfalls, experts say.
Over the past two decades, efforts by government officials to rein in the big payouts, including changes to the tax code and calls for more oversight, have actually contributed to the growth in CEO pay — now 275 times the salary of the average working stiff, according to the Economic Policy Institute.
“Government regulators are notoriously ineffective at reining in pay, and oftentimes the unintended consequences caused greater problems,” says Charles Elson, an expert on corporate governance at the University of Delaware.
Let’s go back to the mid-1980s when the public also was outraged about executives getting huge payouts as a result of the merger mania at the time. The government and investors wanted to make sure managers were selling companies because it was financially prudent, not because they would walk away with huge severance packages.
These concerns resulted in a 1986 change in the tax code creating a penalty tax on excessive golden parachute payments more than three times an executive's base pay.
What happened after that, says Steve Van Putten, a senior executive pay consultant for Watson Wyatt in Boston, was that companies started paying this penalty tax for executives, a process called grossing up. And the three-times base pay limit became the standard for many parachutes that were once well below that.
In 1992, the Securities and Exchange Commission introduced proxy disclosure rules taking information about executive compensation that was once narrative and thin on numerical values, and putting actual numbers out there for all to see.
“It became very transparent, and a CEO at one company could see what another was making so they’d say, ‘Hey, I want to be making that,’ ” says Van Putten.
The big change — one that many compensation experts and shareholder advocates point to as a turning point that led to the obscene CEO paychecks we’re dealing with today — came in 1993 with tax code provision 162(m) that limited tax deductibility for executive pay at $1 million. The exception to the rule was for pay that was considered “performance-based” compensation, like, you guessed it, stock options.
“As a result, stock options have gone crazy,” says Mel Fugate, assistant management professor at the Cox School of Business at Southern Methodist University. Under the rule, for example, a CEO could get $1 million in base pay and $400 million in stock options.
This focus on stock options created a volatile mix, boosting incentives for executives to make risky business moves in order to boost a company’s stock price.
That’s exactly what has happened with the subprime mess that led to the downfall of so many old and established Wall Street firms.
“Certainly, compensation practices at these companies have been a major contributor to the financial crisis,” says Paul Hodgson, a senior analyst at the Corporate Library, an independent governance research organization.
Alas, government intervention thus far has been “an unmitigated disaster,” adds Alan Johnson, a compensation consultant. “I would think if you went back 20 years or so, you’d see it’s enriched consultants like me, lawyers, accountants. It was wasted time and money and didn’t reduce pay. It was so poorly designed, so full of loopholes, and so silly.”
So, what needs to be done to finally clamp down on CEO pay and incentives that encourage short-term gains, but do little for the long-term health of the nation’s corporations?

Can wild CEO pay be tamed? Probably not - Economy in Turmoil - MSNBC.com
 
Lehman Bros.’ Richard Fuld, $40 million.
Merrill Lynch’s Stanley O’Neal, $46 million.
Bear Stearns' James Cayne, $40 million.
Freddie Mac’s Richard Syron, just shy of $20 million.
Fannie Mae’s Daniel Mudd, $12.2 million.

CEO pay — now 275 times the salary of the average working stiff, according to the Economic Policy Institute.
Can wild CEO pay be tamed? Probably not - Economy in Turmoil - MSNBC.com

Average Fortune 500 CEO Now Paid 380 Times As Much As The Average Worker | ThinkProgress

Today. 4 years later, the number is 380 times the average worker. At what point will middle class Republicans wake up and be outraged at this instead of hating on the factory worker that use to make $35 hr? Jealous? Don't realize those high paying union jobs brought up all of our wages? Don't see this gap between rich and poor as being a problem? Wake up!
 
Average baseball players don't make the Hall of Fame

Average Internet posters bore me
 
Average workers are nothing special, who the fuck cares what they earn?

A true Republican through and through. Believe it or not, I love it when you are honest. I especially love your signature line. ****** this and ****** that. Even quoting hearsay is OK because it gives you the opportunity to say "******" multiple times. You are a very, very good member of the Republican Party in very, very good standing. Congrats.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Average workers are nothing special, who the fuck cares what they earn?

A true Republican through and through. Believe it or not, I love it when you are honest. I especially love your signature line. ****** this and ****** that. Even quoting hearsay is OK because it gives you the opportunity to say "******" multiple times. You are a very, very good member of the Republican Party in very, very good standing. Congrats.

Deany, you're well below average

And I have one LBJ "******" quote in my sig

“Son, when I appoint a ****** to the court, I want everyone to know he’s a ******.” -- Dem Civil Rights "Hero" LBJ on Thurgood Marshall
 
Today. 4 years later, the number is 380 times the average worker. At what point will middle class Republicans wake up and be outraged at this instead of hating on the factory worker that use to make $35 hr? Jealous? Don't realize those high paying union jobs brought up all of our wages? Don't see this gap between rich and poor as being a problem? Wake up!

Do you have a problem with the pay that Hollywood celebrities make for acting in just one movie?

Tom Cruise $30 million
Matt Damon $29 million
Brad Pitt $20 million
Leonardo di Caprio $20 million

The list goes on

Highest Paid Actors in Hollywood | BOQ Film
 
Today. 4 years later, the number is 380 times the average worker. At what point will middle class Republicans wake up and be outraged at this instead of hating on the factory worker that use to make $35 hr? Jealous? Don't realize those high paying union jobs brought up all of our wages? Don't see this gap between rich and poor as being a problem? Wake up!

Do you have a problem with the pay that Hollywood celebrities make for acting in just one movie?

Tom Cruise $30 million
Matt Damon $29 million
Brad Pitt $20 million
Leonardo di Caprio $20 million

The list goes on

Highest Paid Actors in Hollywood | BOQ Film

They are in unions idiot! :lol: Employees making a lot. You think I have a problem with that? :cuckoo: Screen Actors Guild. Thank a union! :clap2:

But I bet you did have a problem with NBA players making too much, right?

See, in a union, the CEO wouldn't make as much because the employees would get profit sharing. It wouldn't be "passed on to the consumer" either. That's just a lie they tell you.
 
Today. 4 years later, the number is 380 times the average worker. At what point will middle class Republicans wake up and be outraged at this instead of hating on the factory worker that use to make $35 hr? Jealous? Don't realize those high paying union jobs brought up all of our wages? Don't see this gap between rich and poor as being a problem? Wake up!

Do you have a problem with the pay that Hollywood celebrities make for acting in just one movie?

Tom Cruise $30 million
Matt Damon $29 million
Brad Pitt $20 million
Leonardo di Caprio $20 million

The list goes on

Highest Paid Actors in Hollywood | BOQ Film

Do you know how much the average actor makes? Yeah, neither do I and nobody gives a fuck
 
...clamp down on CEO pay and incentives...

Spoken like a true central planner.

How about this: Let the market determine a CEO's pay...and that of the janitor as well. If they screw up, don't bail them out with taxpayer money. Problem solved.
 
Lehman Bros.’ Richard Fuld, $40 million.
Merrill Lynch’s Stanley O’Neal, $46 million.
Bear Stearns' James Cayne, $40 million.
Freddie Mac’s Richard Syron, just shy of $20 million.
Fannie Mae’s Daniel Mudd, $12.2 million.

As the nation’s financial system was crumbling, the CEOs who were in charge of the most troubled financial firms pocketed fat paychecks during their final full year on the job — and that doesn’t include the golden parachutes they got when they walked away.
Public outrage over this disconnect has caused Congress to step in and try to do something about skyrocketing executive compensation. But history shows that government attempts have been weak, at best, when it comes to curtailing CEO riches.
Why? Because regulators never go far enough in giving shareholders a true voice. It’s difficult to break up entrenched boards of directors that make the decisions on executive compensation.
Even the $700 billion bailout package that is fighting for life on Capitol Hill doesn’t have the teeth to put a lid on these financial windfalls, experts say.
Over the past two decades, efforts by government officials to rein in the big payouts, including changes to the tax code and calls for more oversight, have actually contributed to the growth in CEO pay — now 275 times the salary of the average working stiff, according to the Economic Policy Institute.
“Government regulators are notoriously ineffective at reining in pay, and oftentimes the unintended consequences caused greater problems,” says Charles Elson, an expert on corporate governance at the University of Delaware.
Let’s go back to the mid-1980s when the public also was outraged about executives getting huge payouts as a result of the merger mania at the time. The government and investors wanted to make sure managers were selling companies because it was financially prudent, not because they would walk away with huge severance packages.
These concerns resulted in a 1986 change in the tax code creating a penalty tax on excessive golden parachute payments more than three times an executive's base pay.
What happened after that, says Steve Van Putten, a senior executive pay consultant for Watson Wyatt in Boston, was that companies started paying this penalty tax for executives, a process called grossing up. And the three-times base pay limit became the standard for many parachutes that were once well below that.
In 1992, the Securities and Exchange Commission introduced proxy disclosure rules taking information about executive compensation that was once narrative and thin on numerical values, and putting actual numbers out there for all to see.
“It became very transparent, and a CEO at one company could see what another was making so they’d say, ‘Hey, I want to be making that,’ ” says Van Putten.
The big change — one that many compensation experts and shareholder advocates point to as a turning point that led to the obscene CEO paychecks we’re dealing with today — came in 1993 with tax code provision 162(m) that limited tax deductibility for executive pay at $1 million. The exception to the rule was for pay that was considered “performance-based” compensation, like, you guessed it, stock options.
“As a result, stock options have gone crazy,” says Mel Fugate, assistant management professor at the Cox School of Business at Southern Methodist University. Under the rule, for example, a CEO could get $1 million in base pay and $400 million in stock options.
This focus on stock options created a volatile mix, boosting incentives for executives to make risky business moves in order to boost a company’s stock price.
That’s exactly what has happened with the subprime mess that led to the downfall of so many old and established Wall Street firms.
“Certainly, compensation practices at these companies have been a major contributor to the financial crisis,” says Paul Hodgson, a senior analyst at the Corporate Library, an independent governance research organization.
Alas, government intervention thus far has been “an unmitigated disaster,” adds Alan Johnson, a compensation consultant. “I would think if you went back 20 years or so, you’d see it’s enriched consultants like me, lawyers, accountants. It was wasted time and money and didn’t reduce pay. It was so poorly designed, so full of loopholes, and so silly.”
So, what needs to be done to finally clamp down on CEO pay and incentives that encourage short-term gains, but do little for the long-term health of the nation’s corporations?

Can wild CEO pay be tamed? Probably not - Economy in Turmoil - MSNBC.com

Who told you it was any of your business what your neighbor earns?
 
Lehman Bros.’ Richard Fuld, $40 million.
Merrill Lynch’s Stanley O’Neal, $46 million.
Bear Stearns' James Cayne, $40 million.
Freddie Mac’s Richard Syron, just shy of $20 million.
Fannie Mae’s Daniel Mudd, $12.2 million.

As the nation’s financial system was crumbling, the CEOs who were in charge of the most troubled financial firms pocketed fat paychecks during their final full year on the job — and that doesn’t include the golden parachutes they got when they walked away.
Public outrage over this disconnect has caused Congress to step in and try to do something about skyrocketing executive compensation. But history shows that government attempts have been weak, at best, when it comes to curtailing CEO riches.
Why? Because regulators never go far enough in giving shareholders a true voice. It’s difficult to break up entrenched boards of directors that make the decisions on executive compensation.
Even the $700 billion bailout package that is fighting for life on Capitol Hill doesn’t have the teeth to put a lid on these financial windfalls, experts say.
Over the past two decades, efforts by government officials to rein in the big payouts, including changes to the tax code and calls for more oversight, have actually contributed to the growth in CEO pay — now 275 times the salary of the average working stiff, according to the Economic Policy Institute.
“Government regulators are notoriously ineffective at reining in pay, and oftentimes the unintended consequences caused greater problems,” says Charles Elson, an expert on corporate governance at the University of Delaware.
Let’s go back to the mid-1980s when the public also was outraged about executives getting huge payouts as a result of the merger mania at the time. The government and investors wanted to make sure managers were selling companies because it was financially prudent, not because they would walk away with huge severance packages.
These concerns resulted in a 1986 change in the tax code creating a penalty tax on excessive golden parachute payments more than three times an executive's base pay.
What happened after that, says Steve Van Putten, a senior executive pay consultant for Watson Wyatt in Boston, was that companies started paying this penalty tax for executives, a process called grossing up. And the three-times base pay limit became the standard for many parachutes that were once well below that.
In 1992, the Securities and Exchange Commission introduced proxy disclosure rules taking information about executive compensation that was once narrative and thin on numerical values, and putting actual numbers out there for all to see.
“It became very transparent, and a CEO at one company could see what another was making so they’d say, ‘Hey, I want to be making that,’ ” says Van Putten.
The big change — one that many compensation experts and shareholder advocates point to as a turning point that led to the obscene CEO paychecks we’re dealing with today — came in 1993 with tax code provision 162(m) that limited tax deductibility for executive pay at $1 million. The exception to the rule was for pay that was considered “performance-based” compensation, like, you guessed it, stock options.
“As a result, stock options have gone crazy,” says Mel Fugate, assistant management professor at the Cox School of Business at Southern Methodist University. Under the rule, for example, a CEO could get $1 million in base pay and $400 million in stock options.
This focus on stock options created a volatile mix, boosting incentives for executives to make risky business moves in order to boost a company’s stock price.
That’s exactly what has happened with the subprime mess that led to the downfall of so many old and established Wall Street firms.
“Certainly, compensation practices at these companies have been a major contributor to the financial crisis,” says Paul Hodgson, a senior analyst at the Corporate Library, an independent governance research organization.
Alas, government intervention thus far has been “an unmitigated disaster,” adds Alan Johnson, a compensation consultant. “I would think if you went back 20 years or so, you’d see it’s enriched consultants like me, lawyers, accountants. It was wasted time and money and didn’t reduce pay. It was so poorly designed, so full of loopholes, and so silly.”
So, what needs to be done to finally clamp down on CEO pay and incentives that encourage short-term gains, but do little for the long-term health of the nation’s corporations?

Can wild CEO pay be tamed? Probably not - Economy in Turmoil - MSNBC.com

Who told you it was any of your business what your neighbor earns?

Karl Marx
 
CEO income doesn't belong to the government. It doesn't come out of your pockets. Why would you want to "tame" the salaries of CEO's? They produce the goods and services that make your life more comfortable. If you want to trim salaries why not start with Hollywood celebs in your socialist crusade? They contribute almost nothing to the economy and they flaunt their wealth. If you want to consider something meaningful instead of parroting hypocritical socialist fools, start worrying about how government spends the money they actually take out of your pockets.
 
Today. 4 years later, the number is 380 times the average worker. At what point will middle class Republicans wake up and be outraged at this instead of hating on the factory worker that use to make $35 hr? Jealous? Don't realize those high paying union jobs brought up all of our wages? Don't see this gap between rich and poor as being a problem? Wake up!

Do you have a problem with the pay that Hollywood celebrities make for acting in just one movie?

Tom Cruise $30 million
Matt Damon $29 million
Brad Pitt $20 million
Leonardo di Caprio $20 million

The list goes on

Highest Paid Actors in Hollywood | BOQ Film

They are in unions idiot! :lol: Employees making a lot. You think I have a problem with that? :cuckoo: Screen Actors Guild. Thank a union! :clap2:

But I bet you did have a problem with NBA players making too much, right?

See, in a union, the CEO wouldn't make as much because the employees would get profit sharing. It wouldn't be "passed on to the consumer" either. That's just a lie they tell you.

That's an incredibly lame excuse, but one that doesn't surprise me coming from someone like yourself who is simply a mouth piece for other people's opinions. Union or not is irrelevant. The union doesn't negotiate on behalf of Tom Cruise for his salary. He and his agent do that. Tom Cruise makes that much money per movie because the market dictates he should make that much, just like Alex Rodriguez makes millions per year playing baseball. People pay the ticket prices to see Cruise and A-Rod.

The average hourly wage in the U.S. as of March 2012 is $10.21. When Tom Cruise makes a movie he makes over 1,000 times that average hourly worker in the America, far more than the 380 times you criticized CEOs for, but according to you that's perfectly ok if you support the right politics.

This exposes you as being nothing more than a political hack and a tool for the "evil rich," despite the fact you actually think you are the opposite, but you are not nearly intelligent enough to see that.

There is nothing more to discuss here. Go back to your sandbox with the other kids.
 
If a private company trades legitimately, operates ethically, pays its corporate taxes and isn't in debt to the taxpayer, the salaries they offer and pay should only concern the employer and their employees. True, some will take an interest out of either envy or amazement, but what the OP is decrying (if the object of their scorn complies with the standards I've listed) is borne purely out of vindictive envy. There's no moral highground, because any of these CEOs' detractors would jump at the chance to earn what they do, and their piety would vanish in an instant.
 
Today. 4 years later, the number is 380 times the average worker. At what point will middle class Republicans wake up and be outraged at this instead of hating on the factory worker that use to make $35 hr? Jealous? Don't realize those high paying union jobs brought up all of our wages? Don't see this gap between rich and poor as being a problem? Wake up!

Do you have a problem with the pay that Hollywood celebrities make for acting in just one movie?

Tom Cruise $30 million
Matt Damon $29 million
Brad Pitt $20 million
Leonardo di Caprio $20 million

The list goes on

Highest Paid Actors in Hollywood | BOQ Film

They are in unions idiot! :lol: Employees making a lot. You think I have a problem with that? :cuckoo: Screen Actors Guild. Thank a union! :clap2:

But I bet you did have a problem with NBA players making too much, right?

See, in a union, the CEO wouldn't make as much because the employees would get profit sharing. It wouldn't be "passed on to the consumer" either. That's just a lie they tell you.

In a free market, incomes and wealth are obtained through the sum of innumerable voluntary exchanges. As Robert Nozick calls it, “capitalist acts between consenting adults.”

a. Nozick’s example: ““Now suppose that Wilt Chamberlain is greatly in demand by basketball teams, being a great gate attraction…He signs the following sort of contract with a team: In each home game, twenty-five cents from the price of each ticket of admission goes to him…The season starts, and people cheerfully attend his team’s games; they buy their tickets, each time dropping a separate twenty-five cents of their admission price into a special box with Chamberlain’s name on it. They are excited about seeing him play; it is worth the total admission price to them. Let us suppose that in one season one million persons attend his home games, and Wilt Chamberlain winds up with $250,000, a much larger sum than the average income and larger even than anyone else has. Is he entitled to this income? Is this new distribution unjust?”

b. So, then, what should a government do as far as mandating ‘fairness”? “The exercise of state power is not the action of a separate entity with moral rights greater than those of individual persons, rights to use force against persons for reasons that would not justify the use of force by individuals or groups of individuals per se…individual rights and duties are the basis of what governments may and should do.” Thomas Nagel, “Other Minds: Critical Essays, 1969-1994,” p. 141.
 
How about a limit on what government can spend and what businesses it can enter?

We do have exactly that....Article I, section 8: enumerated powers.

Now, if we could only get the pols to respect that....


David Mamet:

1. Milton Friedman asked, “Who makes the decisions?” Well, in some cases, the government:

a. The only entity capable of serving and protecting individual liberty, as in defense.
b. The administration of justice.
c. The maintenance and oversight of federal infrastructure: roads, waterways, parks, etc.

2. But…government in education? Healthcare? Automobile production? And dubious and absurd programs designed to bring about “equality”? Shouldn’t these decisions be left to the individual, or to the free market, in which forces compete to serve the individual, who will be the arbiter of their success?
 
if CEOs of western businesses are accounted, then what about CEOs of other-than-western businesses ?
 
If a private company trades legitimately, operates ethically, pays its corporate taxes and isn't in debt to the taxpayer, the salaries they offer and pay should only concern the employer and their employees. True, some will take an interest out of either envy or amazement, but what the OP is decrying (if the object of their scorn complies with the standards I've listed) is borne purely out of vindictive envy. There's no moral highground, because any of these CEOs' detractors would jump at the chance to earn what they do, and their piety would vanish in an instant.

What bullshit. This is just another republican crying class envy whenever we give them proof that the GOP's way doesn't work. It doesn't trickle down. The gap between the rich and poor is getting too wide.

I know, too much for you to understand. Just assume it is class envy. And it is. Just like the rich think we make too much, we think they make too much. And if the American people wake up, as we see they are, then they aren't going to put up with this income inequality forever. You'll see like in Egypt and Syria and Greece, the rich can only fuck us so hard before we fight back. That's why unions came to be in the first place. Men had to die for our worker rights. But for the past 30 years your side has been destroying the unions. Started with Reagan. And Rush and Fox have demonized the Unions.

You guys say we don't need Unions like we use to. Fact is, we need them more than ever.

Instead of 320 times the average worker, a union would get 120 of that for themselves. You in a union don't get a say. You get what the company says you get. This is why the gap is getting bigger. There are no unions anymore. They only make u 12% of our work force and right now they are under attack.

You in your non union job have no negotiating power. There is the door if you don't like it.
 

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