Can someone show me ONE conservative ideal that has actually worked?

☭proletarian☭;2200887 said:
I'd say Reagan's foreign policy worked pretty damn good....it ended the Cold War
You mean like the START treaty?

No...that came after Reagan. Reagan's persistence and diplomacy along with a great relationship with Margaret Thatcher and the Pope, were the key's to ending the Cold War.
 
☭proletarian☭;2200898 said:
I'm familiar with it.

If you mean the doctrine that all should be equal before the law- you end up back and Hegel and Locke and the rest of the major liberal philosophers the FF studied and based their views and the Constitution upon.
Eqality under the law is a part of it, but consider this aspect: The president does not rule the American people, he administers the laws that govern the lives of Americans.
 
Meh. Not the first typographical error I've ever made.

If you're reduced to attacking me for such things rather than addressing the fact that the FF were self-proclaimed liberals following the footsteps of Locke and that those who opposed the changes (Tories) were conservative by definition, you've effectively conceded the point.
 
You will never get "conservative" ideas without an argument. The reason is because the entire philosophy is about maintaining the "status quo" and either "keeping things they way they are now, or returning to a previous time". The very definition of liberal is "change", the opposite of "conserve.

1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
4.
a. Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.
b. Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.
5. Conservative Of or belonging to the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
6. Conservative Of or adhering to Conservative Judaism.
7. Tending to conserve; preservative: the conservative use of natural resources.
n.
1. One favoring traditional views and values.
2. A supporter of political conservatism.
3. Conservative A member or supporter of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
4. Archaic A preservative agent or principle.

Cautious in everything except war. Conservatives love war.
 
☭proletarian☭;2200898 said:
I'm familiar with it.

If you mean the doctrine that all should be equal before the law- you end up back and Hegel and Locke and the rest of the major liberal philosophers the FF studied and based their views and the Constitution upon.
Eqality under the law is a part of it, but consider this aspect: The president does not rule the American people, he administers the laws that govern the lives of Americans.

But, but, but conservatives say he is "Hitler". You mean he doesn't have absolute power? What a bummer. I guess that means we are still "free".
 
☭proletarian☭;2200887 said:
I'd say Reagan's foreign policy worked pretty damn good....it ended the Cold War
You mean like the START treaty?

No...that came after Reagan. Reagan's persistence and diplomacy along with a great relationship with Margaret Thatcher and the Pope, were the key's to ending the Cold War.

7 minutes earlier, the post above yours, genius. :rolleyes:
 
The reactionaries are really, really lame here today. All they can do is whine. They are the perfect example with the moderates and centrists in both parties must forge a consenus to keep the corporatists, reactionaries, and neo-cons away from any sort of power. And we won't talk about libertarians: all that comes down to is "keep off my land". Yepper, heck of a way to run a country.
 
☭proletarian☭;2201013 said:
Meh. Not the first typographical error I've ever made.

If you're reduced to attacking me for such things rather than addressing the fact that the FF were self-proclaimed liberals following the footsteps of Locke and that those who opposed the changes (Tories) were conservative by definition, you've effectively conceded the point.

They were for a limited government and a written constituition. Today, liberals like to argue that the constitution is a living document subject to the changing times. Conservatives argue that the constitution means what it says, and changes are not valid unless they follow the process as set forth in the constitution. Another conservative action was establishing the Electoral College.

Now there were some liberal concepts that were applied, but I believe most of the FF's would be classified as conservatives by todays standards.

Oh and by the way, you have no idea what an attack is if you think I attacked you.
 
Now there were some liberal concepts that were applied, but I believe most of the FF's would be classified as conservatives by todays standards.

So you are stating that the conservatives of today have the same values as a 1780s politician..

Conservatives embrace the liberal concepts of the past and claim them as their own

Liberal Concepts of the Founding Fathers

- Denouncing royalty
- One man one vote
- Rights of the accused
- Freedom of Speech
- freedom of the Press
 
Now there were some liberal concepts that were applied, but I believe most of the FF's would be classified as conservatives by todays standards.

So you are stating that the conservatives of today have the same values as a 1780s politician..

Conservatives embrace the liberal concepts of the past and claim them as their own

Liberal Concepts of the Founding Fathers

- Denouncing royalty
- One man one vote
- Rights of the accused
- Freedom of Speech
- freedom of the Press

I'm saying that if the founding fathers were alive today most would be considered conservative.

Limited government.

The belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.

Individual liberty

Individual responsibility

Free enterprise

Fiscal responsibility at all levels of government

Strict interpretation and construction of the Constitution

Traditional family values and marriage
 
Now there were some liberal concepts that were applied, but I believe most of the FF's would be classified as conservatives by todays standards.

So you are stating that the conservatives of today have the same values as a 1780s politician..

Conservatives embrace the liberal concepts of the past and claim them as their own

Liberal Concepts of the Founding Fathers

- Denouncing royalty
- One man one vote
- Rights of the accused
- Freedom of Speech
- freedom of the Press

I'm saying that if the founding fathers were alive today most would be considered conservative.

Limited government.

The belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.

Individual liberty

Individual responsibility

Free enterprise

Fiscal responsibility at all levels of government

Strict interpretation and construction of the Constitution

Traditional family values and marriage

Perhaps, perhaps not. You have no evidence that politicians of the 1780s could even adapt to our environment socially, culturally, and politically today. Can you imagine Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Mason, Lee and others even attending a Congress in which blacks and indians were members?
 
So you are stating that the conservatives of today have the same values as a 1780s politician..

Conservatives embrace the liberal concepts of the past and claim them as their own

Liberal Concepts of the Founding Fathers

- Denouncing royalty
- One man one vote
- Rights of the accused
- Freedom of Speech
- freedom of the Press

I'm saying that if the founding fathers were alive today most would be considered conservative.

Limited government.

The belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.

Individual liberty

Individual responsibility

Free enterprise

Fiscal responsibility at all levels of government

Strict interpretation and construction of the Constitution

Traditional family values and marriage

Perhaps, perhaps not. You have no evidence that politicians of the 1780s could even adapt to our environment socially, culturally, and politically today. Can you imagine Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Mason, Lee and others even attending a Congress in which blacks and indians were members?

Yes I could imagine that happening in 2010.
 
All conservative ideas have worked when implemented.

Except the war on drugs and abstinence only education off the top of my head.

Abstinence only does work.

New Study Says 'Abstinence Only' Works - ABC News

Abstinence-only programs might work, study says - washingtonpost.com

"Most notably, the sessions encouraged children to delay sex until they are ready, not necessarily until married; did not portray sex outside marriage as never appropriate; and did not disparage condoms. "

Perhaps I should've specified abstinence till marriage, sorry.
 
I'm saying that if the founding fathers were alive today most would be considered conservative.

Limited government.

The belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.

Individual liberty

Individual responsibility

Free enterprise

Fiscal responsibility at all levels of government

Strict interpretation and construction of the Constitution

Traditional family values and marriage

Perhaps, perhaps not. You have no evidence that politicians of the 1780s could even adapt to our environment socially, culturally, and politically today. Can you imagine Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Mason, Lee and others even attending a Congress in which blacks and indians were members?

Yes I could imagine that happening in 2010.

Remember that you imagine that the reactionary right and Tea Party represaent a signficant portion of America, that somehow the movement is in touch with the larger American political will. How silly of you.
.
No, the Virginians, if transported from then to today, would have not sat with such a Congress. They would not have been able to get their collective personality around such a concept. You have nothing in their writings that you could even hope to peg an argument to
R
 

New Topics

Forum List

Back
Top