Bush doing a 180º with Europe

[spillmind]

unless you are suffering from serious short term memory loss, the go it alone policy (save for the coalition of the trade agreements), is pretty much up a creek without a paddle, since we are running out of money, the dollar is stil falling, and the troop levels will not be able to maintain minimun staffing levels into 2006.

bush is in europe trying to court the very people that he shunned, and that his followers condemn day in and day out. looks like the 'libs' were right about the US not being able to sustain its warring efforts alone.

and now today, he's telling europe that mention of his plans of attacking iran are simply 'ridiculous'.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/02/22/bush.iran.ap/index.html

yeah, well, hey dubya, we've heard that song and dance before:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/23/140128.shtml

is this a flip or a flop? i need to keep in mind that bush never lies, and he is always morally right on the money. the cognitive dissonance is once again getting the better of me

 

[jimnyc]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/23/140128.shtml

is this a flip or a flop? i need to keep in mind that bush never lies, and he is always morally right on the money. the cognitive dissonance is once again getting the better of me

Weren't these statements made prior to Nov. of '02 when the UN Security Council unanimously approved Resolution 1441, only to turn their back against those very resolutions less than a year later?

Maybe Bush was naive enough to think those that were part of the 'unanimous' would have some backbone?

 

[OCA]

Isn't this what liberals wanted all along? For Bush to make reconciliations with the yellowbellied Eurolibs? Aren't these the same Eurolibs who were on the take with the U.N. and Sadaam?

Bush can't win for losing with you people, he does what you ask and he gets ridicule, he says fuck you and he gets ridicule....its the height of hypocricy(sp?), libs are never happy.

Anyway we are not invading Iran anytime soon, its statements have been blown way out of proportion by the LMM.

 

[spillmind]

Weren't these statements made prior to Nov. of '02 when the UN Security Council unanimously approved Resolution 1441, only to turn their back against those very resolutions less than a year later?

Maybe Bush was naive enough to think those that were part of the 'unanimous' would have some backbone?

so your theory is that bush actually never wanted to attack iraq, but only decided to when the EU didn't see the resolutions and the claims of WMD where highly subjective and not reason enough for an all out invasion? you could be right, but i guess i can't take what bush says at face value anymore. :shrug:

i personally believe that his admin was planning the invasion since he got into office, and this was a just a big, well... LIE.

maybe it's the fact that israel is in violation of a large number of UN resolutions, and we subsidize that country with more aid than half of our states? so is it unreasonable to think that picking and choosing which ones should be acted upon is subject to scrutiny?

http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/noframes/read/1372

either way, bush is now courting europe- a union largely shunned by his admin for the past two years, even taking it as far as renaming french fries 'freedom fries'... and if the EU does help out, i believe it would be because of the humanitarian disaster on the ground in iraq, not out of support for the US policy of invasion and occupation of iraq.

 

[spillmind]

Isn't this what liberals wanted all along? For Bush to make reconciliations with the yellowbellied Eurolibs? Aren't these the same Eurolibs who were on the take with the U.N. and Sadaam?

Bush can't win for losing with you people, he does what you ask and he gets ridicule, he says fuck you and he gets ridicule....its the height of hypocricy(sp?), libs are never happy.

Anyway we are not invading Iran anytime soon, its statements have been blown way out of proportion by the LMM.

it was only a matter of time until the liberal label was thrown around. yes, they are the same yellowbellys that bush needs now because he can't afford to staff his efforts (like everyone said would happen). how does it feel to see your fearless smoke 'em out bring it on brave cowboy begging for help from the people he blew off for the past couple years?

well enough of that, let's BASH LIBERALS! (it's more fun)

 

[OCA]

i personally believe that his admin was planning the invasion since he got into office, and this was a just a big, well... LIE.

maybe it's the fact that israel is in violation of a large number of UN resolutions, and we subsidize that country with more aid than half of our states? so is it unreasonable to think that picking and choosing which ones should be acted upon is subject to scrutiny?

http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/noframes/read/1372

either way, bush is now courting europe- a union largely shunned by his admin for the past two years, even taking it as far as renaming french fries 'freedom fries'... and if the EU does help out, i believe it would be because of the humanitarian disaster on the ground in iraq, not out of support for the US policy of invasion and occupation of iraq.

Well the planning since he got into office is well.....

Are you saying we should invade Israel? The only government that even resembles a democracy in the region, well up until the overwhelmingly successful elections which by the way have brought the insurgents to the bargaining table(read time magazine, most recent issue).

Again you guys wanted Bush to mend fences with Europe, he does it and gets shit on. What gall you guys have!

 

[OCA]

it was only a matter of time until the liberal label was thrown around. yes, they are the same yellowbellys that bush needs now because he can't afford to staff his efforts (like everyone said would happen). how does it feel to see your fearless smoke 'em out bring it on brave cowboy begging for help from the people he blew off for the past couple years?

well enough of that, let's BASH LIBERALS! (it's more fun)

Well who the fuck is saying this? It sure isn't conservatives. Begging? You must be watching edited versions.

 

[OCA]

it was only a matter of time until the liberal label was thrown around. yes, they are the same yellowbellys that bush needs now because he can't afford to staff his efforts (like everyone said would happen). how does it feel to see your fearless smoke 'em out bring it on brave cowboy begging for help from the people he blew off for the past couple years?

well enough of that, let's BASH LIBERALS! (it's more fun)

Yeah lets bash liberals, that is what i'm doing. You're taking images of negotiations in Europe and somehow equivocating that with begging? Stop the LSD, I beg of you.

 

[spillmind]

Well the planning since he got into office is well.....

Are you saying we should invade Israel? The only government that even resembles a democracy in the region, well up until the overwhelmingly successful elections which by the way have brought the insurgents to the bargaining table(read time magazine, most recent issue).

Again you guys wanted Bush to mend fences with Europe, he does it and gets shit on. What gall you guys have!

OCA, it's the PREDICTABILITY of bush blowing them off, having unflattering words for them, affecting trade over it, and YES he did it in an arrogant manner, and you supporters were right in step with him in bashing europe, only to turn around and ask them for help. this my friend, is not my hypocrisy, it is your own. i'm sorry you cannot see it this way.

i never liked bush's response to europe's call to exhaust diplomacy (which was not done), and to explore other options, and it was particularly unimpressed to the slanderous comments from bush supporters for this stance. and now they are sorely needed after taking all this abuse. call me on it if i'm off here, and let me know where.

i'm not saying to invade israel, i'm saying that picking and choosing resolutions to obide by and act upon is a double standard to anyone willing to entertain an outside perspective.

iraq can have elections every day if they want, it still won't change the day to day lives of the people there. 99% of kurds want a seperate kurdistan, and the sunnis will continue to blow people up. i'll agree the elections were a nice gesture, but what it traslates into remains to be seen. you or i making claims as the to real impact is mere speculation at this point.

 

[spillmind]

Yeah lets bash liberals, that is what i'm doing. You're taking images of negotiations in Europe and somehow equivocating that with begging? Stop the LSD, I beg of you.

i've never taken LSD, but assume away if it makes you feel it supports your claims.

 

[spillmind]

Well who the fuck is saying this? It sure isn't conservatives. Begging? You must be watching edited versions.

LOL, yeah he's mending fences. that's the best shit i've heard all day!!!

he shunned them, and now he really needs them, as he cannot staff nor fund his war alone. call it whatever you want, man.

 

[OCA]

OCA, it's the PREDICTABILITY of bush blowing them off, having unflattering words for them, affecting trade over it, and YES he did it in an arrogant manner, and you supporters were right in step with him in bashing europe, only to turn around and ask them for help. this my friend, is not my hypocrisy, it is your own. i'm sorry you cannot see it this way.

i never liked bush's response to europe's call to exhaust diplomacy (which was not done), and to explore other options, and it was particularly unimpressed to the slanderous comments from bush supporters for this stance. and now they are sorely needed after taking all this abuse. call me on it if i'm off here, and let me know where.

i'm not saying to invade israel, i'm saying that picking and choosing resolutions to obide by and act upon is a double standard to anyone willing to entertain an outside perspective.

iraq can have elections every day if they want, it still won't change the day to day lives of the people there. 99% of kurds want a seperate kurdistan, and the sunnis will continue to blow people up. i'll agree the elections were a nice gesture, but what it traslates into remains to be seen. you or i making claims as the to real impact is mere speculation at this point.

So you call the umpteen dozens U.N. resolutions over the years to Sadaam and the front door and back door negotiations that were endless, you call this, "diplomacy that wasn't exhausted"??????? WTF?????

You still show a fundamental misunderstanding of the mindset there, negotiations don't work, they are not respected. What is respected is power, force and death. This comes right from the mouth of babes, I got some mid east friends that I share music with and they to a man tell me, you must kill all the radicals in the midst there, negotiations will never work.

Anyway, as one who was born in Europe I can tell you, one day they love you, the next they hate you. It must all be taken in stride and blown off. Germany or France's participation in Iraq would've not effected things much, i'm willing to bet they would've sent a minimal amount of troops. They will be back begging to us when the next crisis hits, anybody remember Kosovo or Bosnia?

 

[OCA]

LOL, yeah he's mending fences. that's the best shit i've heard all day!!!

he shunned them, and now he really needs them, as he cannot staff nor fund his war alone. call it whatever you want, man.

So show us some hard factual proof of this understaffing, or is this the opposition catch phrase of the week(last week I think it was fascism)

 

[spillmind]

So you call the umpteen dozens U.N. resolutions over the years to Sadaam and the front door and back door negotiations that were endless, you call this, "diplomacy that wasn't exhausted"??????? WTF?????

You still show a fundamental misunderstanding of the mindset there, negotiations don't work, they are not respected. What is respected is power, force and death. This comes right from the mouth of babes, I got some mid east friends that I share music with and they to a man tell me, you must kill all the radicals in the midst there, negotiations will never work.

Anyway, as one who was born in Europe I can tell you, one day they love you, the next they hate you. It must all be taken in stride and blown off. Germany or France's participation in Iraq would've not effected things much, i'm willing to bet they would've sent a minimal amount of troops. They will be back begging to us when the next crisis hits, anybody remember Kosovo or Bosnia?

you will not be able to kill all the radicals, and in fact if this war on terror was the aim of invading iraq, it's been counter productive. the recruitment of anti american factions and extremists has been fueled by the invasion of iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A28876-2005Feb16?language=printer

and i am not addressing whether one day they love you or hate you, because it is an ambiguous statement and far to general to hold any truth that can be documented. what i *am* addressing is bush's approach over the last couple years, and why bush changed his tune so recently.

i guess i am not following your logic here :scratch:

 

[spillmind]

So show us some hard factual proof of this understaffing, or is this the opposition catch phrase of the week(last week I think it was fascism)

http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=130&language_id=1

this is old news.

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=9014 more recent.

i guess you expect enlistment to go up this year?

 

[OCA]

you will not be able to kill all the radicals, and in fact if this war on terror was the aim of invading iraq, it's been counter productive. the recruitment of anti american factions and extremists has been fueled by the invasion of iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A28876-2005Feb16?language=printer

and i am not addressing whether one day they love you or hate you, because it is an ambiguous statement and far to general to hold any truth that can be documented. what i *am* addressing is bush's approach over the last couple years, and why bush changed his tune so recently.

i guess i am not following your logic here :scratch:

My logic is really that Europe is so fickle and hypocritical, that to be on the take from Sadaam, to the detriment of regular Iraqi citizens, then to oppose the war because it will interrupt your illegal cash flow is well....hypocritical, don't ya think? Really Europe has little or no bearing on this situation, Europe may be on the outs with us now but they will come back around, they have little moral precedent to oppose the war.

Anyway, what this boils down to is, ok, Bush is reaching across the aisle and doing what Democrats have asked, reach out to Europe.........and Democrats have acted in usual fashion, changed their tune and bit him in the ass, saying such crap as begging and he's capitulating....what rubbish. He;sdoing what you asked and now you rip him for it....isn't that the height of hypocricy?

So to answer your question(I already have a few times), he's doing what was asked of him by Democrats and a certain percentage of the electorate, i've seen no proof that he actually needs Europe's help but rather the opposite.

 

[OCA]

http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=130&language_id=1

this is old news.

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=9014 more recent.

i guess you expect enlistment to go up this year?

L.A. Times, Iraq "Occupation" Watch? Dubious sources to say the least.

The 1st one I can give some credence to.

Ok lets say a draft happens, what is wrong with required military service by young men?

 

[MJDuncan1982]

Yea, to revive an old term : Flip flopper :shocked:

 

[Merlin1047]

LOL, yeah he's mending fences. that's the best shit i've heard all day!!!

he shunned them, and now he really needs them, as he cannot staff nor fund his war alone. call it whatever you want, man.

I have to admit that I am disappointed by the fact that George Bush decided to be a politician instead of a leader. I gives me the ass that he is sitting side-by-side with that french pig Chirac instead of giving that bastard the finger.

But as much as I may bitch about that, it's still better than having kerry in the White House. At least Bush is on his feet while talking to Chirac. Kerry would be on his knees.

But once again you left wing buttwipes show your true colors. This is more or less what you said you wanted. But now instead of encouraging the President to do things "your" way, you simply seize the opportunity to once again point and giggle.

You people are a truly pathetic and disgusting bunch. Why are you still here and not in Canada?

 

[spillmind]

My logic is really that Europe is so fickle and hypocritical, that to be on the take from Sadaam, to the detriment of regular Iraqi citizens, then to oppose the war because it will interrupt your illegal cash flow is well....hypocritical, don't ya think? Really Europe has little or no bearing on this situation, Europe may be on the outs with us now but they will come back around, they have little moral precedent to oppose the war.

Anyway, what this boils down to is, ok, Bush is reaching across the aisle and doing what Democrats have asked, reach out to Europe.........and Democrats have acted in usual fashion, changed their tune and bit him in the ass, saying such crap as begging and he's capitulating....what rubbish. He;sdoing what you asked and now you rip him for it....isn't that the height of hypocricy?

So to answer your question(I already have a few times), he's doing what was asked of him by Democrats and a certain percentage of the electorate, i've seen no proof that he actually needs Europe's help but rather the opposite.

no he's not doing this to appease anybody's wishes, especially dems. we need to make that clear. it's because we cannot finance this war anymore, carrying 90% of the weight. but then again it is our mess, now isn't it?

---> so please tell us how europe needs our help, and what bush is doing over there promoting our agenda about helping them out. <-----

and yes, we know about shady oil dealings, and i assure you that the US has NEVER partaken in ANYTHING of the such. now vote for me.