Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[Iceweasel]

Labor is not a commodity just like everything else. Labor is human beings who, unlike other commodities, have needs and deserve a bit more respect than raw material, rent, utilities, and insurance.

Labor isn't a human and respect is earned, not a birth right. The dumbfuckery is strong in this thread.

 

[paulitician]

[


GM went under due to awful mismanagement and outright theft. The Employees weren't solely to blame for its collapse. The Employees played a part in it, but it was mostly awful mismanagement and greed on the part of management that did it in.

The UAW had the lion's share of greed and theft. At the end of the day that is why that shithead Obama used taxpayer's money to bail out the pensions. Payback for the billion in campaign funds the filthy greedy union gave the Democrats.

The government should never be in the business of bailing anyone out.

No welfare, bailouts, subsidies or entitlements.

Workers did play a part in GM's collapse, but certainly weren't solely responsible. Check out what Management was getting paid at the time of the collapse. Some very greedy wealthy assholes made a whole lotta cash during the collapse. Much much more than any GM Employees made. It was awful mismanagement and greed that ultimately led to GM's demise. It's not fair to only blame Employees.

 

[paulitician]

Don't worry, this will all blow over in time. The greedy wankers bitchin & moanin now, will learn to deal with paying workers higher wages. They'll get over it and move on.

And there will be no sudden rash of Businesses closing down because of higher wages. And those that do, were already headed that way anyway. Right now it's all about the greedy wankas expressing their outrage. But it'll pass. Bet on it.

what you can't seem to get is that if the cost of labor goes up, the prices of all products go up too.

Thats why the UAW almost destroyed the US car industry, and would have without the govt bailouts.

Un-American Outsourcing and despicable Corporate greed destroyed GM. Many many asshole fatcats got very rich off the collapse of GM. No Employee at GM got nearly as rich as a result of the collapse. In fact, many only suffered.

Take a look at the top brass at GM today. All living the life of Royalty. All still have their numerous luxurious yachts, mansions, and cars. So blaming Employees for GM's demise, is unjust absurdity.

 

[Redfish]

[


GM went under due to awful mismanagement and outright theft. The Employees weren't solely to blame for its collapse. The Employees played a part in it, but it was mostly awful mismanagement and greed on the part of management that did it in.

The UAW had the lion's share of greed and theft. At the end of the day that is why that shithead Obama used taxpayer's money to bail out the pensions. Payback for the billion in campaign funds the filthy greedy union gave the Democrats.

The government should never be in the business of bailing anyone out.

No welfare, bailouts, subsidies or entitlements.

Workers did play a part in GM's collapse, but certainly weren't solely responsible. Check out what Management was getting paid at the time of the collapse. Some very greedy wealthy assholes made a whole lotta cash during the collapse. Much much more than any GM Employees made. It was awful mismanagement and greed that ultimately led to GM's demise. It's not fair to only blame Employees.

yes, there was some mismanagement, but the UAW contract was what really destroyed them.

But since you brought up management pay, do you support the govt bailing them out so that the management could still get all of their money?

 

[Redfish]

Don't worry, this will all blow over in time. The greedy wankers bitchin & moanin now, will learn to deal with paying workers higher wages. They'll get over it and move on.

And there will be no sudden rash of Businesses closing down because of higher wages. And those that do, were already headed that way anyway. Right now it's all about the greedy wankas expressing their outrage. But it'll pass. Bet on it.

what you can't seem to get is that if the cost of labor goes up, the prices of all products go up too.

Thats why the UAW almost destroyed the US car industry, and would have without the govt bailouts.

Un-American Outsourcing and despicable Corporate greed destroyed GM. Many many asshole fatcats got very rich off the collapse of GM. No Employee at GM got nearly as rich as a result of the collapse. In fact, many only suffered.

Take a look at the top brass at GM today. All living the life of Royalty. All still have their numerous luxurious yachts, mansions, and cars. So blaming Employees for GM's demise, is unjust absurdity.

What planet are you posting from? must be the planet dumbfuck.

nothing you have said in this thread makes sense or has any basis in fact.

 

[paulitician]

[


How's that a good thing for Workers? Not seeing where they're coming out ahead on that. Low skilled Workers wanna get paid too. See, Workers know not to depend on greedy folks like you to help them out. That's why they're standing up for themselves. And good for them. If they don't stand up for themselves, who will?... You?? Ha, not gonna happen.

Helping people out is charity. Businesses are not charity organizations. It is not their responsibility to provide welfare. They are established to make a profit.

In the business world labor is a commodity just like everything else. If your labor is valuable (i.e. engineer) then you get paid a lot for it. If your labor is not valuable (i.e. flipping burgers) then you are not going to get much for it.

The government needs to stay out of it.

Labor is not a commodity just like everything else. Labor is human beings who, unlike other commodities, have needs and deserve a bit more respect than raw material, rent, utilities, and insurance.

Good luck. Most who call themselves 'Good Christians', do not live Jesus' teachings. The lowly unskilled worker is mere shite beneath their boots. They don't consider them human. They consider them 'Untouchables.' It's a very sad & disturbing mentality. I'm ashamed of many of my friends who call themselves 'Good Christians' and 'Good Capitalists.'

 

[paulitician]

[


GM went under due to awful mismanagement and outright theft. The Employees weren't solely to blame for its collapse. The Employees played a part in it, but it was mostly awful mismanagement and greed on the part of management that did it in.

The UAW had the lion's share of greed and theft. At the end of the day that is why that shithead Obama used taxpayer's money to bail out the pensions. Payback for the billion in campaign funds the filthy greedy union gave the Democrats.

The government should never be in the business of bailing anyone out.

No welfare, bailouts, subsidies or entitlements.

Workers did play a part in GM's collapse, but certainly weren't solely responsible. Check out what Management was getting paid at the time of the collapse. Some very greedy wealthy assholes made a whole lotta cash during the collapse. Much much more than any GM Employees made. It was awful mismanagement and greed that ultimately led to GM's demise. It's not fair to only blame Employees.

yes, there was some mismanagement, but the UAW contract was what really destroyed them.

But since you brought up management pay, do you support the govt bailing them out so that the management could still get all of their money?

Yes we know, always blame the lowly Worker. Sorry, but that's just silly knee-jerk nonsense. Un-American Outsourcing and overall evil greed on the part of Management, is what did GM in. All of the top brass at the time of the collapse, are still living the life of Royalty today. They're still sailing around on their private yachts and ordering their numerous servants around. They haven't suffered at all.

Meanwhile, an awful lot of GM Employees have suffered immensely. They no longer have good-paying jobs. They're gone for good. All to foreign countries. So to hell with GM Management. They're greedy Un-American pricks. Period, end of story.

 

[boilermaker55]

You could or the business could, if its a corporation, have their stock holders not gain such a huge profit.
Rather than a 7% or 8% margin call for 3% or 4%, but that goes against all the "principles" of corporate greed.

Well, we are working our way to 1,000 post and 100 pages and we are still waiting for the link that shows an actual restaurant closing in Seattle due specifically to a law that is going to increase the minimum wage. Did I miss that post and link?

the article is irrelevant. The debate is what it has morphed into at this point. And I am finding that no one really wants to debate facts. Just offer opinion. Address the simple question....why does a pool service company need to hire adults to clean pools? Why is it a failed business model if it does not have to hire adults?

Sorry, but it is easy to find a negative response to all of your questions. The pool company may be able to compliment it's staff with teens, but they will need adult supervision. Sure, you can use teens as helpers, but you would be foolish and irresponsible to send them out unsupervised to private homes. Do you think a person paying for professional service is going to be happy when they come home and see a teen swimming in their pool or entertaining a friend.

The point too is, that most refuse to factor in, are the huge corporate business that can change employees like socks and pay them wages to maximize their profits.
When John Q. Public starts to realize patronizing local small business makes a community prosper , things will get better.
Corporate profits leave the community to pay shareholders.

But, businesses don't close on their own accord? Be it how they managed or operated their business and how trends change.
Really?

I live in a resort and one of the main, if not the main industry happens to be restaurants of every type you can imagine. They close and open every season. Mostly, the same core group of owners that buy and sell their restaurants and even trade with each other. Each year a number of rookies will show up to try and teach everyone how to run a restaurant. Most only last a season. Some close up before the season is over. The real restaurateurs know how to adjust and adapt and continue to make profits. None of the ones I know would ever consider paying employees minimum wage. Quality employees are a must for a successful restaurant. The potential for loss from bad publicity, theft and the lack of quality workmanship is far to great. Successful restaurants in my town use the best employees they can find and are willing to pay a decent wage to get them.

are you actually implying that an establishment with a built in consumer audience is an example of a typical small business in middle America?

You morons really don't get it do you???

In our scenario of real life as the Fed has lowered interest to 0% or somewhere there close, it limits the amount of Bonds bought as a safe haven. AS long as the stock market has the Fed held here the profits will continue, but notice the tone of the Fed chairrman has changed and as such so has inveastor poster.

There is a direct correlation between the Fed interest rate / bond rates and the stock market ..................

When you can reconcile that in your little head .........................

Holla

Well of course, why didn't everyone see the obvious relationship of the Fed, interest rates, bonds and the stock market and how those things determine whether my burger will cost $5.95 or $6.25. In the end, don't we just simply raise the price of the burger when the cost of producing the burger goes up?

 

[paulitician]

Oh well, looks like it's getting harder to get richer off shitting on workers. Personally, i don't see that as a bad thing. If American Workers don't stand up for themselves, who will? You? Sorry, but can't count on people like you. It is what it is.

What it is is people like you would rather be unemployed and occupying public property with your nasty ass while proclaiming the rich got that way because of your dishwashing job. You should do standup at a restaurant association convention and tell them how rich they are getting. You'll have them rolling in the aisles.

Yeah, so Workers should count on people like you to stand up for them ay? I'm pretty sure they'll do much better standing up for themselves. But look, it is America. It's all about the $$. Everybody wants some. Everyone's tryin to get it.

So, Employers are gonna continue trying to screw Employees and Employees are gonna continue trying to get what they can get from Employers. It's an endless age-old battle. So score one for the lowly worker on this one. But don't worry, the Slave Masters aren't all done. The'll strike back. Bet on it. So stay tuned. The battle continues on.

An employer is a slave master? Are you even out of high school yet?

The endless age-old battle between the Slaves and Slave Masters rolls on. Been fighting that battle for Millennia. Nothing changes. The Slaves won a small victory on this one, but the battle is far from over. The Slave Masters will strike back. Lots of Politicians out there to buy.

That battle is raging between your ears, not in reality. Most people don't see the world in black and white.

Read up a bit more on History. The age-old battle between the Slaves and Slave Masters has been going on for Millennia. Going back as far as the Helots in Greece, and long before.

But you know how the Helots finally beat the mighty Spartans? They finally realized they had the numbers. There is strength and victory in numbers. Once the American Helots wake up, they'll win too. They have the numbers.

 

[boilermaker55]

No I am not it was a statement made about how corporations and their paying dividends to the upper management changed in the early 80's.
Why should they get profit from being paid in stock options, which are given to them. While the others have to purchase their stock.
It's no way a stereotyping statement. Only facts.

The point too is, that most refuse to factor in, are the huge corporate business that can change employees like socks and pay them wages to maximize their profits.
When John Q. Public starts to realize patronizing local small business makes a community prosper , things will get better.
Corporate profits leave the community to pay shareholders.

I only patronize small businesses when they have good and services I want at competitive prices otherwise they don't get my business.

What makes a community prosper is good and services at the lowest possible prices.

By the way, many people in any community enjoy corporate profits through their investments and pensions.

Corporations are not the bogeyman the confused Left makes them out to be. They provide goods and services, employ tens of millions of people, pay a ton in taxes at all levels and are usually community supporters.

Corporations are amoral, they externalize their expenses if at all possible, they will exploit their workers if at all possible;e, and they don't pay nearly their fair share in taxes. Add to that the fact that they aren't patriotic and there are damn good reasons to both watch and regulate them. Adam Smith didn't like them banned for no reason.

you have no idea what you are talking about.

I am an S-corp....I paid over 160K in taxes between federal and state in 2013...an s-corp does not pay federal tax, but any profit becomes my k-1 income....sure, I can evade....but I don't. When I had employees, the largest gap between me and my highest paid employee was 2-1...the highest gap between me and my lowest paid employee was 8-1 (she was right out of college and I was 30 years in business)....

And I was a typical small business owner.

You are stereotyping.

 

[boilermaker55]

I wait for the day they wake up.

What it is is people like you would rather be unemployed and occupying public property with your nasty ass while proclaiming the rich got that way because of your dishwashing job. You should do standup at a restaurant association convention and tell them how rich they are getting. You'll have them rolling in the aisles.

Yeah, so Workers should count on people like you to stand up for them ay? I'm pretty sure they'll do much better standing up for themselves. But look, it is America. It's all about the $$. Everybody wants some. Everyone's tryin to get it.

So, Employers are gonna continue trying to screw Employees and Employees are gonna continue trying to get what they can get from Employers. It's an endless age-old battle. So score one for the lowly worker on this one. But don't worry, the Slave Masters aren't all done. The'll strike back. Bet on it. So stay tuned. The battle continues on.

An employer is a slave master? Are you even out of high school yet?

The endless age-old battle between the Slaves and Slave Masters rolls on. Been fighting that battle for Millennia. Nothing changes. The Slaves won a small victory on this one, but the battle is far from over. The Slave Masters will strike back. Lots of Politicians out there to buy.

That battle is raging between your ears, not in reality. Most people don't see the world in black and white.

Read up a bit more on History. The age-old battle between the Slaves and Slave Masters has been going on for Millennia. Going back as far as the Helots in Greece, and long before.

But you know how the Helots finally beat the mighty Spartans? They finally realized they had the numbers. There is strength and victory in numbers. Once the American Helots wake up, they'll win too. They have the numbers.

 

[Mr Natural]

Anyone who was around in the late '60s early '70s remembers the absolute. crap that GM and Ford and Chrysler were turning out.

It left the door wide open for Japan Inc. to show us how quality cars are made for a reasonable price.

But by then, it was too late for American car makers to come back.

 

[Ame®icano]

who in any state of mind expects a burger flipping establishment to make a profit paying their employees 15.00 hr to cook burgers and fries? well, maybe those boneheads in Ferguson would.

The minimum wage in Canada is $11 an hour and McDonald's still managed to make a huge profit here.

You just failed to mention little detail that burgers in Canada are more expensive then in US.

 

[paulitician]

Don't worry, this will all blow over in time. The greedy wankers bitchin & moanin now, will learn to deal with paying workers higher wages. They'll get over it and move on.

And there will be no sudden rash of Businesses closing down because of higher wages. And those that do, were already headed that way anyway. Right now it's all about the greedy wankas expressing their outrage. But it'll pass. Bet on it.

what you can't seem to get is that if the cost of labor goes up, the prices of all products go up too.

Thats why the UAW almost destroyed the US car industry, and would have without the govt bailouts.

Un-American Outsourcing and despicable Corporate greed destroyed GM. Many many asshole fatcats got very rich off the collapse of GM. No Employee at GM got nearly as rich as a result of the collapse. In fact, many only suffered.

Take a look at the top brass at GM today. All living the life of Royalty. All still have their numerous luxurious yachts, mansions, and cars. So blaming Employees for GM's demise, is unjust absurdity.

What planet are you posting from? must be the planet dumbfuck.

nothing you have said in this thread makes sense or has any basis in fact.

Go find out how well GM Management at the time of the collapse, are living today. Most are still Multimillionaires living the dream. But what about GM Employees? How well they doin today?

GM Management engaged in pure evil practices. They are not true Americans. They wanted slaves, so they turned to the Un-American practice of Outsourcing. They should all be ashamed of themselves. But i'm pretty sure they aren't. Too busy living the life of Royalty to give a shit.

 

[Mr Natural]

who in any state of mind expects a burger flipping establishment to make a profit paying their employees 15.00 hr to cook burgers and fries? well, maybe those boneheads in Ferguson would.

The minimum wage in Canada is $11 an hour and McDonald's still managed to make a huge profit here.

You just failed to mention little detail that burgers in Canada are more expensive then in US.

And yet somehow Canadians manage to eat at McDonalds and get by.

 

[Ame®icano]

I advise business owners to either do the work themselves, or convince family members to help out by accepting lower wages. Paying others to help make your business successful, can be very risky and costly. People need to really think about that before opening a business.

The reality is, people aren't gonna work for shite wages just so you can become successful and wealthier. Everyone is in it for themselves. It's about the $$. It's not volunteer work. So if you can't or won't pay, don't bother opening a business. It is what it is.

And if you don't like the pay, go work someplace else.

 

[paulitician]

Rise American Helots! Rise! You can win. The Spartans were defeated. So, anything's possible. There is strength in numbers. And you have the numbers. Time to win.

 

[paulitician]

I advise business owners to either do the work themselves, or convince family members to help out by accepting lower wages. Paying others to help make your business successful, can be very risky and costly. People need to really think about that before opening a business.

The reality is, people aren't gonna work for shite wages just so you can become successful and wealthier. Everyone is in it for themselves. It's about the $$. It's not volunteer work. So if you can't or won't pay, don't bother opening a business. It is what it is.

And if you don't like the pay, go work someplace else.

And if you can't or won't pay, quit your bitchin and close up shop. Was't meant to be. Move on and do something else.

 

[Mr Natural]

I advise business owners to either do the work themselves, or convince family members to help out by accepting lower wages. Paying others to help make your business successful, can be very risky and costly. People need to really think about that before opening a business.

The reality is, people aren't gonna work for shite wages just so you can become successful and wealthier. Everyone is in it for themselves. It's about the $$. It's not volunteer work. So if you can't or won't pay, don't bother opening a business. It is what it is.

And if you don't like the pay, go work someplace else.

Great!

A nation of nomads chasing around the almighty dollar.

Nice view of America you got there, pal.

 

[danielpalos]

I believe the private sector shouldn't have to be burdened with public sector social, regulatory costs.