'Are You Better Off....'

[sakinago]

I'm worse off.

i'm sorry to hear that. and certainly, i'd hope that turns around. but i'd wager that has zero to do with this president doing anything wrong.

four years ago our economy melted down. we were losing 750,000 jobs a month, the housing market was in the pits and banks were failing.

our money has been largely repaid... we are producing jobs, albeit not enough. but that's what happens when we cut "government" so that job creation remains stagnant. for every job created in the private sector, we are losing one in government...teachers, firefighters, police...etc.

that leads to further reductions in our national cash flow... which in turn leads to money being cut to the states and to the federal government...

which in turn leads to job losses...

which in turn leads to people not having sufficient money to buy certain goods and services...

which further cuts our national income...

the fact that we're doing as well as we are given the obstacles put in front of this president ... is phenomenal.

Im sorry but Im going to have to disagree. The Economy routinely moves up and down, thats a fact. It is the government job to tap the breaks when necessary (when economy is up) and to press on the gas (when it is down). Now Obama's method of pressing the gas is he stimulus packages, this is a method that has proven not to work (thanks to FDR). The best way to press the gas would be to cut taxes on the private sector business, thats the only proven method to work (besides an all out world war). Everyone knows that most jobs in america are created by the private sector, by a lot. Everyone also knows that America is no longer competitive in business (especially in manufacturing) mainly because of the high tax rates on them (also b/c of the ridiculously high cost of healthcare which is another topic). We know that this is true b/c not only have we sent manufacturing jobs overseas, but we also have been sending our service jobs (mainly technical) overseas, and service jobs were our saving grace in the 90's when america stopped making stuff.

Summery, make it cheaper to do business in the US, and you create more jobs... simple as that. And that is not what Obama wants to do, he wants to simply redestribute wealth, mainly from upper class to middle class.

 

[sakinago]

Anyone who can argue that the republicans worked fairly with Obama lives in a bubble so dense reality cannot enter. The same situation occurred when William Jefferson Clinton was elected. It was almost as if the republicans felt entitled to the presidency after Reagan? Reagan democrats gave the false impression they were not paying attention. But they finally did pay attention. The entire Clinton presidency became one of investigation after investigation. Millions were spent getting to that blue dress. The money was not for the betterment of the nation but to remove an obstacle to power. Same with Obama, only worse this time as money now has gained new life and a new strength from republican judicial selections. Judges matter folks, pay attention.
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You could say the exact same thing about the Bush's last 2 years in office, Dem controlled congress tied his hands up, and he could not do a thing. Mind you this was the same congress that called for bi-partisonship, that would not budge on any negotiation of any policy.

Question midcan, who would you consider the best bi-partisan candidate, Obama or Romney?

 

[daphillenium]

I'm worse off.

i'm sorry to hear that. and certainly, i'd hope that turns around. but i'd wager that has zero to do with this president doing anything wrong.

four years ago our economy melted down. we were losing 750,000 jobs a month, the housing market was in the pits and banks were failing.

our money has been largely repaid... we are producing jobs, albeit not enough. but that's what happens when we cut "government" so that job creation remains stagnant. for every job created in the private sector, we are losing one in government...teachers, firefighters, police...etc.

that leads to further reductions in our national cash flow... which in turn leads to money being cut to the states and to the federal government...

which in turn leads to job losses...

which in turn leads to people not having sufficient money to buy certain goods and services...

which further cuts our national income...

the fact that we're doing as well as we are given the obstacles put in front of this president ... is phenomenal.

Im sorry but Im going to have to disagree. The Economy routinely moves up and down, thats a fact. It is the government job to tap the breaks when necessary (when economy is up) and to press on the gas (when it is down). Now Obama's method of pressing the gas is he stimulus packages, this is a method that has proven not to work (thanks to FDR). The best way to press the gas would be to cut taxes on the private sector business, thats the only proven method to work (besides an all out world war). Everyone knows that most jobs in america are created by the private sector, by a lot. Everyone also knows that America is no longer competitive in business (especially in manufacturing) mainly because of the high tax rates on them (also b/c of the ridiculously high cost of healthcare which is another topic). We know that this is true b/c not only have we sent manufacturing jobs overseas, but we also have been sending our service jobs (mainly technical) overseas, and service jobs were our saving grace in the 90's when america stopped making stuff.

Summery, make it cheaper to do business in the US, and you create more jobs... simple as that. And that is not what Obama wants to do, he wants to simply redestribute wealth, mainly from upper class to middle class.

He did the stimulus package right and you can argue on whether it worked or not. Some argue that it saved us from going into a depression. Others argue it didn't work. No one will ever agree on that. But when you talk about cutting taxes on private sector business that's when it gets wishy washy. I mean, you've got big corporations like GE, Caterpillar, GM, and others who pay little in taxes already due to their subsidization. And many of those companies DO ship their jobs overseas anyways.

And sorry for not having sources or information on this because I simply don't know myself, but anyway, isn't Obama going around claiming "I cut taxes on small business 18 times in the last 4 years." I don't know the truth to that but wouldn't that be one of the things you suggested?

 

[flacaltenn]

Anyone who can argue that the republicans worked fairly with Obama lives in a bubble so dense reality cannot enter. The same situation occurred when William Jefferson Clinton was elected. It was almost as if the republicans felt entitled to the presidency after Reagan? Reagan democrats gave the false impression they were not paying attention. But they finally did pay attention. The entire Clinton presidency became one of investigation after investigation. Millions were spent getting to that blue dress. The money was not for the betterment of the nation but to remove an obstacle to power. Same with Obama, only worse this time as money now has gained new life and a new strength from republican judicial selections. Judges matter folks, pay attention.

But all is not lost, even Fox media sees flaws in Romney Ryan today, that is a sort of miracle. This piece is from Alabama, jeez maybe the South will rise again?

'Alabama Voices: America is better off with Obama' Alabama Voices: America is better off with Obama | The Montgomery Advertiser | montgomeryadvertiser.com

Work fairly with Obama? On WHAT? A little bit less of stimulus to be wasted? MORE wasted money on his stock market "investments"? Stealing MORE money from Soc Sec?

He offered NOTHING of moderation to meet halfway on. The class war and fantasy of Green Jobs and Shovel Jobs left nothing of interest to compromise on...

And yet -- under Clinton --- a REPUBLICAN congress worked with Billy Jeff on SIGNIFICANT changes to welfare and the deficit. How did THAT happen? Because Clinton had mutual interests to work on...

 

[sakinago]

[/QUOTE]

He did the stimulus package right and you can argue on whether it worked or not. Some argue that it saved us from going into a depression. Others argue it didn't work. No one will ever agree on that. But when you talk about cutting taxes on private sector business that's when it gets wishy washy. I mean, you've got big corporations like GE, Caterpillar, GM, and others who pay little in taxes already due to their subsidization. And many of those companies DO ship their jobs overseas anyways.

And sorry for not having sources or information on this because I simply don't know myself, but anyway, isn't Obama going around claiming "I cut taxes on small business 18 times in the last 4 years." I don't know the truth to that but wouldn't that be one of the things you suggested?[/QUOTE]

The stimulus did not save us from a depression, the only people who say that are in Obama's campaign using his "well it could have been worse" tactic. This is all he really has to say about the economy, that and the same promises he made last election. Truth is, the stimulus made no dent what so ever, and did not preform to what was "projected", by the Obama administration. There is no prof that stimulus helps the economy, stimulus is a misnomer, should be called "throw money at the problem." Either way it should be better, month after month the economy could not even meet the dismal projections of job creation, and thats saying something.

And note all 3 companies you mentioned are manufacturing companies. Even with subsidies, it is a known fact that if you want to manufacture in america, you are at a great disadvantage. You better have no foriegn competition, and a product with a lot of demand. GM did not have such circumstances, went bankrupt, GE... been fighting to stay above water for a while, and catepillar... I honestly have no clue.

As for the tax breaks for small business, they are for a very small window small business. I have two, I run a non-profit coffe shop, and a used car lot on the side which is the money maker. I get breaks for the shop, but thats b/c it is non-profit, nothing to do with the tax breaks. As for the car lot, I don't get dick, I put it in a county adjacent to mine b/c it has lower taxes. And thats the problem with small businesses, every is so dependent on what you do, and where you wanna do it. I could qualify for a tax break if would only sell hybrids or other low mileage vehichles. Even though I buy and fix Prius's with defective hybrid batteries, I still dont qualify b/c I dont exclusively sell hybrids.

 

[voltron]

Or worse off - a Fox survey has over 80% claiming they are worse off? Personally, I cannot blame any president for how I feel each four years. Are Fox viewers eighty percent worse off, and if so, why? Whose fault is that?

Are you worse off because Obama was elected and he didn't help you out, are you too lazy for work and require the government to make things better for you? Are you worse off because the Bush tax cuts were left in place?

Or are you entitled to the government helping make it better for you, all the while whining that the particular government in power hasn't made it better for you?

Why does this question contradict the intent of the question? I thought the conservatives / republicans / libertarians did it all on their own, from nothing, did I miss a qualification or footnote?

If you are better off, should you thank Obama? Should you thank Government? Should you thank luck? Should you thank your dead relative who left you lots? Should you thank yourself?

"It is breathtaking impudence that Republicans should try to campaign on whether we are better off than were were in the last six months of the Bush administration. I can’t believe we are even arguing about this. Seriously? The country had fallen off a cliff in the last years of Bush, or rather had been pushed off one by GOP policies.

'Top Ten Ways we are Better off than in January 2009'

1. In January 2009 we lost 600,000 jobs. In 2008 over-all, we lost 2.6 million jobs, the most in 6 decades! We’re now adding over 100,000 jobs a month."


"Perhaps if a Democrat explained how all Americans have actually benefited from the standards (I do not say achievement) of racial and gender equity as these have been articulated since the 1950s, the Republican Party wouldn’t have such a lock on the votes of white males. Perhaps if a Democrat could honestly say to working-class women that they don’t need to depend on their families for child care—especially men with incomes, but also relatives with time to watch the kids—the Republican Party would finally become the exclusively white, all-male country club it wants to be." Revisiting False Consciousness | Politics and Letters

you say we cant blame obama for the current economic conditions but then continue to blame bush. the way i see it, obama had three stimilus packages passed that have failed, they were meant to increase the economy, so he is to blame, but it was just more wasted money. His healthcare bill was passed, and now my healthcare cost have increased (tricare).

 

[Katzndogz]

All conversations about who is or is not better off today than four years ago should be put in abeyance until the inflationary bite cause by printing 40 billion dollars of worthless money starts to bleed.

 

[PaulS1950]

None of us is better off today than we were before Obama took office. The national debt is over 13 TRILLION dollars and they are already talking about raising the debt ceiling again. Once we reach the point where the government (our taxes) can no longer pay the interest on that debt we will all understand why.
We will default on that debt and the government will collapse. We had better prepare for that because it is only three terms away unless we cut spending enough to start paying off the debt.
I am looking forward to the collapse. It will give us the opportunity to do away with the representative government that has proven that a central government cannot be trusted to support the people. They are too busy doing "what is best for the country" instead of what is best for the people.

 

[midcan5]

you say we cant blame obama for the current economic conditions but then continue to blame bush. the way i see it, obama had three stimilus packages passed that have failed, they were meant to increase the economy, so he is to blame, but it was just more wasted money. His healthcare bill was passed, and now my healthcare cost have increased (tricare).

Not true, Obama tried to pass stimulus packages but was stopped by a republican congress that only wants to win back the presidency and not help America. Plus the economy is much better, and prove you pay more for healthcare because of Obama and not normal inflation? Valid info only.

None of us is better off today than we were before Obama took office. The national debt is over 13 TRILLION dollars and they are already talking about raising the debt ceiling again. Once we reach the point where the government (our taxes) can no longer pay the interest on that debt we will all understand why....

Such cheery thoughts, over 70% of current debt is due to republican policies and Bush's tax cuts that could have rebuilt the nation.

U.S. Federal Deficits, Presidents, and Congress

The True Federal Deficit

 

[oldfart]

All conversations about who is or is not better off today than four years ago should be put in abeyance until the inflationary bite cause by printing 40 billion dollars of worthless money starts to bleed.

1. I used to hear quite a lot of this stuff when I taught Money & Banking. I offered to relieve anyone who wanted to get rid of "worthless money" at the rate of (at today's prices) $10,000 for an ounce of gold. No takers. I guess the paper money wasn't worthless after all.

2. The world has seen precisely three cases of hyperinflation in the last 300 years. First was 1922-3 Germany, at the time the world's third largest economy. For that we can thank Rudolf von Havenstein, who at the end of WWI fully expected to be fired, and by some fluke was not. He considered it his duty to provide whatever money the government required, a common idea at the time, and reported to a government commission that he had enough printing presses running to increase the money supply 60% per DAY. Second place goes to Hungary 1945-6, but what would you do with the Red Army on your doorstep? An finally we have Zimbabwe today. I just don't see a major economy at risk to be number four.

3. A number of economists and pundits have made a career of prdicting bursts of inflation. A forty year old joke about one of them is that he correctly predicted 17 of the last two inflationary episodes. I will boldly predict that the American economy wll not see an inflation rate over four percent in the next twelve months. If you disagree, state your own prediction of a threshold rate and time frame.

 

[sakinago]

All conversations about who is or is not better off today than four years ago should be put in abeyance until the inflationary bite cause by printing 40 billion dollars of worthless money starts to bleed.

1. I used to hear quite a lot of this stuff when I taught Money & Banking. I offered to relieve anyone who wanted to get rid of "worthless money" at the rate of (at today's prices) $10,000 for an ounce of gold. No takers. I guess the paper money wasn't worthless after all.

2. The world has seen precisely three cases of hyperinflation in the last 300 years. First was 1922-3 Germany, at the time the world's third largest economy. For that we can thank Rudolf von Havenstein, who at the end of WWI fully expected to be fired, and by some fluke was not. He considered it his duty to provide whatever money the government required, a common idea at the time, and reported to a government commission that he had enough printing presses running to increase the money supply 60% per DAY. Second place goes to Hungary 1945-6, but what would you do with the Red Army on your doorstep? An finally we have Zimbabwe today. I just don't see a major economy at risk to be number four.

3. A number of economists and pundits have made a career of prdicting bursts of inflation. A forty year old joke about one of them is that he correctly predicted 17 of the last two inflationary episodes. I will boldly predict that the American economy wll not see an inflation rate over four percent in the next twelve months. If you disagree, state your own prediction of a threshold rate and time frame.

Question. Would getting closer to the gold standard be worse or better for Americans? This is an honest question, you seem to know what your talking about since you stated the 3 cases pretty accurately of hyperinflation. Its just the way I see it, it looks like any sort of inflation is just another form of taxing... in a way.