Arafat

[preemptingyou03]

What is everyone's opinion on Israel killing Arafat? Should they? Shouldn't they?

I feel that if he's killed, it'll cause a whole shitload of problems and terrorism. But then again... terrorism will get worse before it is defeated. We might as well inflame radicalism sooner than later. Arafat has blood on his hands.

The entire world's anti-Israeli stance is quite pathetic.

If I were Bush, I'd give Israel a green light to not only kill Arafat, but to take out all of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

 

[nycflasher]

I'll tell you this, Arafat-ass is definitely a Terrorist himself, no matter what he says.

 

[insein]

We're the big owners of the World. Israel is our pit-bull. We keep the pit-bull on a leash as best as we can, but sometimes if people get too close to it, they get bit. If anyone wants to be stupid enough to test the Pit-bulls range, then they deserve what they get.

 

[nycflasher]

I read in the paper today that Sharon has relieved himself of the promise(not sure exactly how to word this, he seeems to think that he has Bush's understanding on this) he made to Bush not to assassinate Fatty.

I wonder if Arafat will be killed in coming weeks.
Thoughts? I can see both plusses and minuses, the minus being further polarizing the conflict.

IMO, if he is ordering terrorist activity-- take him out.

 

[preemptingyou03]

You said the negative is futher polarizing the conflict and I can agree with that originally but... if you think about it, we should want to polarize the conflict.

What people fear is losing moderate Muslims to radicalism. What I say is, who cares now... that's the step we must take. We must fight terrorism and if it inflames radicalism for a long time, so be it. Freedom will win in the end. That much is certain.

 

[nycflasher]

touché.

I suppose you can't further polarize the cause of peace, on the one hand, and the cause of mass-murder.

I guess the more terrorists that are subdued, the more opportunity we give to non-extremist muslims and the rest of the world for that matter.

 

[gaffer]

I think he should have been killed 30 years ago. I do not understand why that man is alive today. He's been a terrorist all his life and should be on the most wanted list right beside bin laden. I say kill him, the sooner the better, and when they have his funeral MOAB the place. Moderates are just fence sitters. Put a little fear in them and they will come off the fence on the right side. They come off on the wrong side they get to join the rest of the scum. Preferably buried in pig entrails.

 

[krisy]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
What is everyone's opinion on Israel killing Arafat? Should they? Shouldn't they?

I feel that if he's killed, it'll cause a whole shitload of problems and terrorism. But then again... terrorism will get worse before it is defeated. We might as well inflame radicalism sooner than later. Arafat has blood on his hands.

The entire world's anti-Israeli stance is quite pathetic.

If I were Bush, I'd give Israel a green light to not only kill Arafat, but to take out all of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

I think Israel should do what they need to do. If the U.S. or Israel hold back on things like this,then the terrorists have won the game. They could care less,if they kill him or not,they are still going to terrorise the Hell out of Israel. Has anything stopped or gotten better because they have let the pathetic sob live up until now. He is the grandfather of terroism and it's time for his generation to go. I really feel for Israel,they have the world picking on and critisizing their every move. They live with fear on a daily basis,yet are smart mouthed by smart ass Europoean countries for defending themselves. We all know the wonderful human rights record that Europe has as well. If Bush doesn't support him on it then oh well,he won't stop being their friend. I personally believe that publically,Bush would not support it,but behind the scenes he would.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by krisy
I think Israel should do what they need to do. If the U.S. or Israel hold back on things like this,then the terrorists have won the game. They could care less,if they kill him or not,they are still going to terrorise the Hell out of Israel. Has anything stopped or gotten better because they have let the pathetic sob live up until now. He is the grandfather of terroism and it's time for his generation to go. I really feel for Israel,they have the world picking on and critisizing their every move. They live with fear on a daily basis,yet are smart mouthed by smart ass Europoean countries for defending themselves. We all know the wonderful human rights record that Europe has as well. If Bush doesn't support him on it then oh well,he won't stop being their friend. I personally believe that publically,Bush would not support it,but behind the scenes he would.

Its like on Tough Crowd. Colin was pretending to be Sharon talking to Bush. Bush was telling him how he doesnt "approve" of these attacks. Sharon was saying "Oh yes i know they are terrible. We wouldnt dare respond to such horrible atrocities." All the while he's on the phone loading his uzis and surface to air missle launcher and then at one point puts his hand over the phone and says to a subordinant, "Here take the keys to the tank, its loaded and gased up already".

I think Isreal needs to take care of business cause no one is going to help them. Even us because our democrats have our hands tied. Which is ironic because of all the Jewish people that are members of the Dem party.

 

[5stringJeff]

Araft is no better than OBL or the Hamas guy they killed a few weeks ago. The only difference is that Arafat quit the terrorist game and turned his terrorist organization (the PLO) into a quasi-governmental body.

I will certainly drink to this man's death, as I will for OBL's.

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
What is everyone's opinion on Israel killing Arafat? Should they? Shouldn't they?

I think offing Arafat is a bad idea for a number of reasons. In fact, I think it is a terrible idea.


First the policy of "targeted assassination" is both illegal and immoral according to an increasing number of Israeli pilots who have refused orders to carry out assassination missions.


Israeli Pilots Refuse
Occupation Orders
by Dean Andromidas
Twenty-seven Israeli pilots have signed a letter refusing to serve combat missions in the Israeli occupied territories. Although over 500 Israeli reserve Army soldiers have signed a similar letter since early 2002, the signatories of this letter are all officers, including a brigadier general and two lieutenant-colonels, making it without precedent in Israel's history.

The letter, sent to Israeli Air Force commander Maj. Gen. Dan Halutz and publicized in the Sept. 25 edition of Ha'aretz, declared, "We, both veteran and active pilots, who serve the state of Israel, are opposed to carrying out illegal and immoral orders to attack, of the type Israel carries out in the territories." The letter also declares their refusal to transport IDF troops on missions into and out of occupied Palestinian territories, or to provide air support for combat troops in those areas. The letter concludes, "We, for whom the IDF and the Air Force are an integral part of our being; who were brought up to love Israel and to contribute to the Zionist ideal, cannot take part in the operations in the center of populated civilian areas; and [we] refuse to endanger innocent Palestinian civilians.... The continued occupation is critically harming the country's security."

Complete text available at:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3038idf_pilots.html

Originally posted by preemptingyou03 I feel that if he's killed, it'll cause a whole shitload of problems and terrorism. But then again... terrorism will get worse before it is defeated. We might as well inflame radicalism sooner than later. Arafat has blood on his hands.

The entire world's anti-Israeli stance is quite pathetic.

If I were Bush, I'd give Israel a green light to not only kill Arafat, but to take out all of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. [/B]

Granted, the moral questions are more personal. Some view the biblical admonition: "Thou shall not kill" as an absolute, others do not. Whatever your personal views on the morality of assassinating someone, there are practical reasons for not killing Arafat.

You pointed out the most obvious in your post: "cause a whole shitload of problems and terrorism."

"Shitloads of problems and terrorism" in Israel means a lot more schoolchildren get blown to peices. There is no two ways about it. Is this somehow a good thing? I reallhy don't understand how you can acknowledge that killing Arafat will lead to increased terrorism and conclude somehow that it is okay. Setting aside that fact that the children you seem willing to sacrafice are not your kids (assuming you don't live in Israel), exactly how is more dead kids in anyone's interest. Don't those pictures make you sick? You want to see more of them?

The only thing I can figure is that you feel that killing Arafat will lead to less violence between the Israeli's and the Palentinians. How you figure that I don't know. Killing Arafat will kill the "road map" which, although far from perfect, is the only game in town for bringing about peace between the two waring parties.

Make no mistake, Arafat is considered by the Palestinians (not necessarily by me) as their legitimate leader. If Israel kills him, there will be no hope for peace.

So that begs the obvious question. What are you hopeing will be accomplished by killing Arafat? If it will bring more death on innocent Israeli's and Palestinians, and crush the US led "Road Map," initiative that holds out the only chance for peace now on the table...why kill him?

Originally posted by preemptingyou03 But then again... terrorism will get worse before it is defeated. We might as well inflame radicalism sooner than later. [/B]

Terrorism may well "get worse" and I doubt that it will ever be defeated. Terrorism is not a country. But this statement raised three questions in my mind.

1. Why is it better to "inflame radicalism" at all? It is not as if there are a limited number of radicals who are willing to blow themselves up and all Israel has to do is kill them and then the problem will go away. Killing arafat turn hundreds of otherwise ordinary students and cab drivers into the ranks of the martyrs. Irrael is far better off if they are studying history instead of bomb making.

2. You wrote: "We might as well..." Who is this "We" you are writing about. Do not confuse the US wars in Afghinistan and Iraq with the conflict in Israel and the occupied territories. They have some things in common, but they are very seperate. The conflict the Israeli's are facing is a result of the occupation. The US war in Iraq is about issues that are very different. (Not even the Bush Administration has claimed that the Palestinians were behind 9/11).

3. If the US backs the assassination of Arafat, not only could Israel find itself at war with its neighboring states, the US may well find itself a war with the Arab states. The consequences of that are staggering.

World War I was started by the assassination of one Prince. The world does not need another world war. The US does not need another world war. You are playing with fire.

 

[preemptingyou03]

"Shitloads of problems and terrorism" in Israel means a lot more schoolchildren get blown to peices. There is no two ways about it. Is this somehow a good thing? I reallhy don't understand how you can acknowledge that killing Arafat will lead to increased terrorism and conclude somehow that it is okay. Setting aside that fact that the children you seem willing to sacrafice are not your kids (assuming you don't live in Israel), exactly how is more dead kids in anyone's interest. Don't those pictures make you sick? You want to see more of them?

As if these children aren't being blown up now? I understand for the short term that fighting terrorism, whether it is invading Iraq or killing someone that Arabs love, like Arafat, will lead to increased radicalism. That is no reason to appease.

What happened to the retaliation Hamas was supposed to do immediantly? The fact is this: when terrorists have no funds, sponsorship, shelter, leadership, and camps, they can't commit acts, and if they do commit acts, it'll be less severe.

1. Why is it better to "inflame radicalism" at all? It is not as if there are a limited number of radicals who are willing to blow themselves up and all Israel has to do is kill them and then the problem will go away. Killing arafat turn hundreds of otherwise ordinary students and cab drivers into the ranks of the martyrs. Irrael is far better off if they are studying history instead of bomb making.

In short, it's not better to inflame radicalism, only under one circumstance: if radicalism didn't exist. But radicalism does exist. And it was getting more and more inflamed before 9/11, and the threat of terrorism can't get worse than that, so... radicalism is nothing but a pimple waiting to be popped. We must make Muslims understand that there are TERRORISTS within your RELIGION that are killing FELLOW MUSLIMS. These people must step up and fight with us. And they will. You are thinking short-term... this will last decades.

2. You wrote: "We might as well..." Who is this "We" you are writing about. Do not confuse the US wars in Afghinistan and Iraq with the conflict in Israel and the occupied territories. They have some things in common, but they are very seperate. The conflict the Israeli's are facing is a result of the occupation. The US war in Iraq is about issues that are very different. (Not even the Bush Administration has claimed that the Palestinians were behind 9/11).

"We" is anybody fighting terrorism. That's the difference between you and I. You think terrorism as in "those who did 9/11." I think terrorism as in the ideology which commited hundreds of acts BEFORE 9/11 and will continue to commit acts AFTER 9/11. September 11th was just the opening chapter. It was a wake up call. Apparently, you hit the snooze.

3. If the US backs the assassination of Arafat, not only could Israel find itself at war with its neighboring states, the US may well find itself a war with the Arab states. The consequences of that are staggering.

What neighboring states? Syria? Good. They are the enemy.