Wyatt earp
Diamond Member
- Apr 21, 2012
- 69,975
- 16,421
- 2,180
FYI South Carolina garnishes people's wages for hospital bills, they have been doing it since I moved here 10 years ago, how come no other? States do it?
Debate Now An Unhappy Birthday for Obamacare?
- Thread starter Foxfyre
- Start date
candycorn
Diamond Member
Wyatt earp
Diamond Member
- Apr 21, 2012
- 69,975
- 16,421
- 2,180
I just looked it up, South Carolina unlike the US IRS you can file for bankruptcy if it is not more then 3 years old, preatty sneaky of them they don't start sending out letters till 5 years latter.
Ravi
Diamond Member
Most people can't afford to pay for a hospital stay.
- Thread starter
- #485
Which is a pretty good incentive to get insurance. But if there is liberty it is left up to the person how much risk he/she is willing to assume, and what kind of insurance best serves his/her needs at any given time. That should not be a dictate of the federal government.
Most kids do not have insurance? Huh? First off provide support for this claim. Secondly, why do I need insurance when I can pay for my health care in cash? I thought the idea was we needed health care, not insurance for health care.
Drugs are expensive because our government is creating monopolies for drug suppliers.
Cat food is expensive. Your real life example would have saved money and eaten healthier by buying different products. I suspect your real life example was lying to you.
And the reason they can't afford it is because the hospital is charging that one person enough to cover the costs for the people who don't have to pay, and for the federally mandated lower cost medicare folk.
Yeah cause free clinics don't exist. Oh wait nvm they do exist.
Government involvement is the reason health care costs are so high. Duh!
Everybody dies Candy. Leading cause of death... getting old. Insurance won't stop you from getting old. No amount of money will reverse the aging process. But yes, we can certainly go bankrupt trying.
- Thread starter
- #491
Sorry, but I was in the medical field, actually dealing with hospital bills before Medicare went into effect. And I witnessed the fraud kicking in on day one that Medicare went into effect and watched the very sharp escalation in prices after that. Prior to Medicare the hospitals did a lot of pro bono services for those who were destitute but there weren't a lot of those. The low income folks would be set up on payment plans that they could afford--even $10/month. If somebody was faced with an expensive operation he/she could not afford and insurance didn't cover, the community rallied and raised the money to help.
Since Medicare and Medicare were enacted in 1965, the government has passed much more legislation trying to control insurance companies and medical costs and each time has only made things worse.
See here:
Considering how much the technology has increased for toasters and washing machines (or think the cost of electronics like calculators or computers that are a fraction of what they once cost):
The Cost of Health Care 1958 vs. 2012
Or this:
. . .The increasing share of medical bills paid by third-party payers (insurance companies and governments) and the disastrous consequences are documented. Patients overuse medical resources since those resources appear to be free or almost free. Producers of medical equipment create new and more expensive devices, even if they are of only marginal benefit, since third-party payers create a guaranteed market. Attempts to rein in those costs have led to a blizzard of paperwork but proven ineffective in controlling costs.
The cure for the present problems is straightforward: the patient must once again be made the central actor in the medical marketplace. Patients need to be given the same motivations to economize on medical care that they have to economize in other markets. Tax laws need to be rewritten. The use of medical savings accounts needs to be promoted. High-deductible health insurance should be encouraged.
Returning the patient, and normal market principles, to center stage is all that is necessary to bring the costs of health care under control.
Why Health Care Costs Too Much
The cure for the present problems is straightforward: the patient must once again be made the central actor in the medical marketplace. Patients need to be given the same motivations to economize on medical care that they have to economize in other markets. Tax laws need to be rewritten. The use of medical savings accounts needs to be promoted. High-deductible health insurance should be encouraged.
Returning the patient, and normal market principles, to center stage is all that is necessary to bring the costs of health care under control.
Why Health Care Costs Too Much
. . .Congress enacted Medicaid and Medicare as part of the Great Society program in 1965.
The passage of these bills had two immediate effects. First, they substantially enlarged the U.S. health care market. Millions of Americans who previously lacked health insurance now enjoyed coverage under one of these publicly funded plans. Second, they altered the composition of health care spending. As the government covered a larger portion of the health care bill, the share of out-of-pocket spending decreased. The combined effects of the increase in federal funding and the decrease in out-of-pocket spending generated sharp increases in the price of health care. . . .
An Introduction to the Health Care Crisis in America How Did We Get Here
The passage of these bills had two immediate effects. First, they substantially enlarged the U.S. health care market. Millions of Americans who previously lacked health insurance now enjoyed coverage under one of these publicly funded plans. Second, they altered the composition of health care spending. As the government covered a larger portion of the health care bill, the share of out-of-pocket spending decreased. The combined effects of the increase in federal funding and the decrease in out-of-pocket spending generated sharp increases in the price of health care. . . .
An Introduction to the Health Care Crisis in America How Did We Get Here
Ding Ding Ding Fox hit the nail on the head. My daughter, an RN as a trauma one center, tells me that well over half of the people that show up in their Emergency Room are daily and weekly regulars that show up with self inflicted injuries and/or made up problems to get free pain meds, free food and such. These people go from hospital to hospital filling up the beds. Why? Cause they know the hospitals have to take them in.
Sorry, but I was in the medical field, actually dealing with hospital bills before Medicare went into effect. And I witnessed the fraud kicking in on day one that Medicare went into effect and watched the very sharp escalation in prices after that. Prior to Medicare the hospitals did a lot of pro bono services for those who were destitute but there weren't a lot of those. The low income folks would be set up on payment plans that they could afford--even $10/month. If somebody was faced with an expensive operation he/she could not afford and insurance didn't cover, the community rallied and raised the money to help.
See here:
Considering how much the technology has increased for toasters and washing machines (or think the cost of electronics like calculators or computers that are a fraction of what they once cost):
The Cost of Health Care 1958 vs. 2012
Or this:
. . .The increasing share of medical bills paid by third-party payers (insurance companies and governments) and the disastrous consequences are documented. Patients overuse medical resources since those resources appear to be free or almost free. Producers of medical equipment create new and more expensive devices, even if they are of only marginal benefit, since third-party payers create a guaranteed market. Attempts to rein in those costs have led to a blizzard of paperwork but proven ineffective in controlling costs.
The cure for the present problems is straightforward: the patient must once again be made the central actor in the medical marketplace. Patients need to be given the same motivations to economize on medical care that they have to economize in other markets. Tax laws need to be rewritten. The use of medical savings accounts needs to be promoted. High-deductible health insurance should be encouraged.
Returning the patient, and normal market principles, to center stage is all that is necessary to bring the costs of health care under control.
Why Health Care Costs Too Much
. . .Congress enacted Medicaid and Medicare as part of the Great Society program in 1965.
The passage of these bills had two immediate effects. First, they substantially enlarged the U.S. health care market. Millions of Americans who previously lacked health insurance now enjoyed coverage under one of these publicly funded plans. Second, they altered the composition of health care spending. As the government covered a larger portion of the health care bill, the share of out-of-pocket spending decreased. The combined effects of the increase in federal funding and the decrease in out-of-pocket spending generated sharp increases in the price of health care. . . .
An Introduction to the Health Care Crisis in America How Did We Get Here
Greenbeard
Gold Member
You railed against the ACA for nudging people toward high-deductible plans and HSAs for pages and pages in this thread.
Now you're endorsing the idea that this is "the cure" to the cost problem?
- Thread starter
- #494
The high deductible plans under the ACA are tantamount to having no insurance at all due to the exhorbitant costs of healthcare that I believe government has mostly created.
Before government started meddling in healthcare, high deductibles made sense. The free market took care of the costs of a visit to the doctor's office, a shot of penicillin or an ordinary prescription, because people could afford to pay for this out of pocket or at least pay it off on a short term payment plan. The free market charges no more than customers are able to pay, otherwise there is no market for products and services. So we all had insurance policies that kicked in when there were high costs involved and otherwise expected to pay for routine maintenance just as we expected to pay to fix the broken window at our house or for the oil change or fix the brakes on our car. Insurance usually did pay for one general physical each year, but otherwise we all paid out of pocket for routine stuff. And healthcare costs for such things were affordable as was basic insurance.
Greenbeard
Gold Member
What are you saying? Does moving to high deductible plans now make sense or not? The article you quoted suggests that's what needs to happen, but you've routinely attacked the ACA for facilitating that happening.
So where exactly do you stand on this?
- Thread starter
- #496
I say let the free market determine what insurance will be available to people and let the people choose whatever insurance plan works best for them. Get the government out of it except in cases where it is necessary to enforce RICO or anti trust laws.
THEN we will see medical costs, like all other technology, become affordable for most because there will always be those who see a way to to make a decent profit by filling a need and they'll have to fill it at a price people are able and willing to pay. We can figure out ways to take care of the truly helpless, but that does not need to be a federal function.
That is where I stand.
Greenbeard
Gold Member
Right, that's what's happening right now. You're talking about this as if it's some theoretical aspiration when it's happening all over the place.
Innovation--from start-ups to restructuring of existing industry leaders--to reduce costs is popping up all over precisely because the cost burden is shifting from third party payers to individuals. Or, as your article put it, "the patient must once again be made the central actor in the medical marketplace."
Innovation--from start-ups to restructuring of existing industry leaders--to reduce costs is popping up all over precisely because the cost burden is shifting from third party payers to individuals. Or, as your article put it, "the patient must once again be made the central actor in the medical marketplace."
- Thread starter
- #498
If that was happening all over the place, the insurance companies would not have had to restructure a lot of their less expensive policies into more expensive ones to accommodate Obamacare requirements. And millions of happily insured Americans would not have found themselves without insurance and forced into the exchanges as a result of it.
If free market concepts were happening all over the place as you suggest, the totalitarian dictates would never have been forced on the people.
candycorn
Diamond Member
Sorry, but I was in the medical field, actually dealing with hospital bills before Medicare went into effect. And I witnessed the fraud kicking in on day one that Medicare went into effect and watched the very sharp escalation in prices after that. Prior to Medicare the hospitals did a lot of pro bono services for those who were destitute but there weren't a lot of those. The low income folks would be set up on payment plans that they could afford--even $10/month. If somebody was faced with an expensive operation he/she could not afford and insurance didn't cover, the community rallied and raised the money to help.
Since Medicare and Medicare were enacted in 1965, the government has passed much more legislation trying to control insurance companies and medical costs and each time has only made things worse.
See here:
Considering how much the technology has increased for toasters and washing machines (or think the cost of electronics like calculators or computers that are a fraction of what they once cost):
The Cost of Health Care 1958 vs. 2012
Or this:
. . .The increasing share of medical bills paid by third-party payers (insurance companies and governments) and the disastrous consequences are documented. Patients overuse medical resources since those resources appear to be free or almost free. Producers of medical equipment create new and more expensive devices, even if they are of only marginal benefit, since third-party payers create a guaranteed market. Attempts to rein in those costs have led to a blizzard of paperwork but proven ineffective in controlling costs.
The cure for the present problems is straightforward: the patient must once again be made the central actor in the medical marketplace. Patients need to be given the same motivations to economize on medical care that they have to economize in other markets. Tax laws need to be rewritten. The use of medical savings accounts needs to be promoted. High-deductible health insurance should be encouraged.
Returning the patient, and normal market principles, to center stage is all that is necessary to bring the costs of health care under control.
Why Health Care Costs Too Much
. . .Congress enacted Medicaid and Medicare as part of the Great Society program in 1965.
The passage of these bills had two immediate effects. First, they substantially enlarged the U.S. health care market. Millions of Americans who previously lacked health insurance now enjoyed coverage under one of these publicly funded plans. Second, they altered the composition of health care spending. As the government covered a larger portion of the health care bill, the share of out-of-pocket spending decreased. The combined effects of the increase in federal funding and the decrease in out-of-pocket spending generated sharp increases in the price of health care. . . .
An Introduction to the Health Care Crisis in America How Did We Get Here
And????
What you said was a false statement. Medical bills were and are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy.
No. You are failing to find the root cause. The root cause, IMO and as the evidence shows, is government run amok that has forced the costs of medical care to go through the roof. But I do find it humorous that you are correcting the medical professional telling her that she does not know what she's talking about.
Sorry, but I was in the medical field, actually dealing with hospital bills before Medicare went into effect. And I witnessed the fraud kicking in on day one that Medicare went into effect and watched the very sharp escalation in prices after that. Prior to Medicare the hospitals did a lot of pro bono services for those who were destitute but there weren't a lot of those. The low income folks would be set up on payment plans that they could afford--even $10/month. If somebody was faced with an expensive operation he/she could not afford and insurance didn't cover, the community rallied and raised the money to help.
Since Medicare and Medicare were enacted in 1965, the government has passed much more legislation trying to control insurance companies and medical costs and each time has only made things worse.
See here:
Considering how much the technology has increased for toasters and washing machines (or think the cost of electronics like calculators or computers that are a fraction of what they once cost):
The Cost of Health Care 1958 vs. 2012
Or this:
. . .The increasing share of medical bills paid by third-party payers (insurance companies and governments) and the disastrous consequences are documented. Patients overuse medical resources since those resources appear to be free or almost free. Producers of medical equipment create new and more expensive devices, even if they are of only marginal benefit, since third-party payers create a guaranteed market. Attempts to rein in those costs have led to a blizzard of paperwork but proven ineffective in controlling costs.
The cure for the present problems is straightforward: the patient must once again be made the central actor in the medical marketplace. Patients need to be given the same motivations to economize on medical care that they have to economize in other markets. Tax laws need to be rewritten. The use of medical savings accounts needs to be promoted. High-deductible health insurance should be encouraged.
Returning the patient, and normal market principles, to center stage is all that is necessary to bring the costs of health care under control.
Why Health Care Costs Too Much
. . .Congress enacted Medicaid and Medicare as part of the Great Society program in 1965.
The passage of these bills had two immediate effects. First, they substantially enlarged the U.S. health care market. Millions of Americans who previously lacked health insurance now enjoyed coverage under one of these publicly funded plans. Second, they altered the composition of health care spending. As the government covered a larger portion of the health care bill, the share of out-of-pocket spending decreased. The combined effects of the increase in federal funding and the decrease in out-of-pocket spending generated sharp increases in the price of health care. . . .
An Introduction to the Health Care Crisis in America How Did We Get Here
And????
What you said was a false statement. Medical bills were and are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy.
What are your qualifications in this matter?
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