America is blind to the problems of public education

[1uscitizen]

This is how I see public education: there are 4 “entities” that determine the success/failure of any school - administrators, teachers, students, parents. All 4 have responsibilities. At the high school level parents and students have dropped the ball. They no longer accept any responsibility for education. It has somehow become a “right”, and if it is not handed to them, whether they have earned it or not, then the institution, the school, the teacher must be inferior/ineffective/”bad”. Administrators are forcing teachers to dumb down their classes because Americans have somehow decided that an education does not require effort and hard work. It’s not a freebie! Look at the billions of dollars that colleges are spending on remedial classes. And even colleges are forcing professors to dumb down classes in order to reduce failure rates!

If Americans really want to straighten out the public education system they need to look at the real problem. Stop putting all of the responsibility on teachers. Look at the administrators who are making the decisions and rules. Look at the parents and students who don’t understand that an education is something you earn. You can fire and replace all of the existing teachers, but nothing will change because the other 3 “entities” have not been addressed. You can put up new buildings and rename them “charter schools”, but if the 4 “entities” are not addressed equally those schools will fail. If you look closely at those charter schools that have succeeded you’ll find that all 4 “entities” have been addressed.

Wake up America! Individual responsibility and personal accountability needs to be applied to administrators, students and parents - not just teachers. An education is NOT an entitlement. It is something that is earned.

 

[IanC]

about 5 years ago there was a big teachers conference in San Fran where the superintendent got into trouble for making stereotypical remarks about blacks. The one thing I really remember was a student who admitted to goofing off all during high school but decided to turn over a new leaf and work hard in grade 12 and then go to university, blah, blah. What does that mean to students who work hard for five years? is that possible and what does that mean for high school standards?

there should be at least two tracks in high school, one for learners and one for slackers.

 

[1uscitizen]

about 5 years ago there was a big teachers conference in San Fran where the superintendent got into trouble for making stereotypical remarks about blacks. The one thing I really remember was a student who admitted to goofing off all during high school but decided to turn over a new leaf and work hard in grade 12 and then go to university, blah, blah. What does that mean to students who work hard for five years? is that possible and what does that mean for high school standards?

there should be at least two tracks in high school, one for learners and one for slackers.

That goes against the liberal/progressive mindset. Everyone must be the same. All are equal. Learning takes a distant backseat to confidence/self esteem building. USA dropped out of the top 10 globally in gen ed, but we're #1 in student confidence.

 

[Skull Pilot]

about 5 years ago there was a big teachers conference in San Fran where the superintendent got into trouble for making stereotypical remarks about blacks. The one thing I really remember was a student who admitted to goofing off all during high school but decided to turn over a new leaf and work hard in grade 12 and then go to university, blah, blah. What does that mean to students who work hard for five years? is that possible and what does that mean for high school standards?

there should be at least two tracks in high school, one for learners and one for slackers.

That goes against the liberal/progressive mindset. Everyone must be the same. All are equal. Learning takes a distant backseat to confidence/self esteem building. USA dropped out of the top 10 globally in gen ed, but we're #1 in student confidence.

Which is why most young people think the "deserve" a much higher salary than their position can bear.

 

[Tank]

What are public schools like in Mexico?

 

[reason10]

Adminstrators, teachers, students, and parents?

Only two of these groups are getting paid. It would seem to me that the job falls on the shoulders of those who get paid for it.

 

[Tank]

The blame falls on the liberals who said they could educate minorities.

 

[LaShaun]

The blame falls on the liberals who said they could educate minorities.

Tank please do elaborate on what you mean on your remarks of "educating minorities" like myself?

 

[LaShaun]

Adminstrators, teachers, students, and parents?

Only two of these groups are getting paid. It would seem to me that the job falls on the shoulders of those who get paid for it.

I think the blame falls on the groups who are getting paid for it, however the responsibility is of all 4 of these groups. Its an effort on all of these people including politicians to progress in education. I dont think there is one group however than can be blamed for failures of SOME public schools. Because all Public education facilities are not failures.

 

[1uscitizen]

Adminstrators, teachers, students, and parents?

Only two of these groups are getting paid. It would seem to me that the job falls on the shoulders of those who get paid for it.

The job does. The responsibility falls on all 4. Actually, parental responsibility should gradually shift to the student through high school years. Parents and students take little if any responsibilty for their education. It's up to other people to bestow it on them.

 

[Tank]

The blame falls on the liberals who said they could educate minorities.

Tank please do elaborate on what you mean on your remarks of "educating minorities" like myself?

 

[LaShaun]

The blame falls on the liberals who said they could educate minorities.

Tank please do elaborate on what you mean on your remarks of "educating minorities" like myself?[/IMG]

That does not answer my question. You showed me a graph that African Americans have a higher dropout rate followed by Hispanics and Whites, you did not tell me your reasons or justifications as to why a "liberal" cannot educate minorities.

Present a legitamite case or do keep your unbacked comments to yourself.

 

[Tank]

Liberals have been running the education system for the last fifty years, and things have gotten much worse. Affirmitive action, bussing programs, teaching minorities their a victim are all liberal ideas.

If kids were doing go in school today, liberals would be bragging how great all these ideas are.

 

[IanC]

The blame falls on the liberals who said they could educate minorities.

Tank please do elaborate on what you mean on your remarks of "educating minorities" like myself?

obviously you are missing the implied part of the statement. liberals said minorities could be educated to the same attainment as whites. that has not happened in actual learning or even in graduation rates. it is very doubtful that it can ever happen because of the different average intelligence levels of the various groups.

 

[LaShaun]

Liberals have been running the education system for the last fifty years, and things have gotten much worse. Affirmitive action, bussing programs, teaching minorities their a victim are all liberal ideas.

If kids were doing go in school today, liberals would be bragging how great all these ideas are.

I knew you were going to bring up the "Affirmative action" argument. You wouldnt be a typical Conservative If you didnt. The liberal idea- If it must be, to bus Blacks (integrate schools) was not based on whether they thought Blacks or Whites could be equally educated, but that they had the equal opportunity to be educated and/ or pursue those choices.

It seems you are blaming minorities themselves for failing schools when in reality it was those same conservative "leave it be- separate" ideals that got us into certain "civil right" positions in the first place. The 4 people named in this thread are to blame for the failures in SOME public schools, not particular racial groups. Honestly we could simply blame the errors of American history for All historical failures.

As far as "teaching minorities they're victims", This sort of ill informed false right wing ideology belongs on a hate-site, not this one. Now if you want to present an actual example in whence we are taught to be victims in your opinion I can help you distinguish what is a "Victim role" from what is a reality. In all truth, you wouldnt really know how to presume the minority position in America unless you were actually one.

 

[LaShaun]

The blame falls on the liberals who said they could educate minorities.

Tank please do elaborate on what you mean on your remarks of "educating minorities" like myself?

obviously you are missing the implied part of the statement. liberals said minorities could be educated to the same attainment as whites. that has not happened in actual learning or even in graduation rates. it is very doubtful that it can ever happen because of the different average intelligence levels of the various groups.

And obviously you are missing a point. Now you are going to get into the argument that minorities are innately intellectually inferior to Whites based on Science, (yet history proves in some way that Whites are the ones who dig themselves in the biggest holes.)
I have been in that argument many a times and do not wish to further explain how statistics overlap and how predispositions occur. How certain races are genetically equipped in difference and why.

In my opinion its totally irrelevant.

 

[psikeyhackr]

This is how I see public education: there are 4 “entities” that determine the success/failure of any school - administrators, teachers, students, parents. All 4 have responsibilities. At the high school level parents and students have dropped the ball. They no longer accept any responsibility for education. It has somehow become a “right”, and if it is not handed to them, whether they have earned it or not, then the institution, the school, the teacher must be inferior/ineffective/”bad”.

What idiotic AUTHORITARIAN drivel!

I went to Catholic schools not public but the nuns couldn't teach math worth a damn and never used science books. But I ended up doing the science project for some public school kids.

The school system is designed more to control the distribution of knowledge and psychologically condition kids to be subservient to AUTHORITY.

If we really wanted to educate EVERYBODY why don't we have a National Recommended Reading List. The vast majority of books are crap. If you can find the best book on a subject you can learn 3 times as much in 1/3rd the time as from the mediocre books on the subject. But you can't find the great books because they are hidden among the garbage if they are not actually out of print.

I just learned about the book The Tyranny of Words a few months ago and that book is from 1938. I could have read it in high school. But instead I stumbled across Korzybski's Science and Sanity in my 20s and had to struggle through most of that.

This society wants to keep most people ignorant and make them pay for the privilege and expects them to be grateful. With all of this talk about education who suggests that ACCOUNTING BE MANDATORY in high school. But no! Education is for getting a good job so the bank can give you a good credit rating and send you lots of credit cards. Go into debt for garbage so you have to go back to work to pay the debt.

So kids drop out because they are being handed bullshit and they know it but they still don't know what the GOOD INFORMATION is but this society doesn't wnat them to have good information.

The Screwing of the Average Man
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Screwing-Average-Man-Richer-Poorer/dp/0553129139]Amazon.com: The Screwing of the Average Man - How The Rich Get Richer and You Get Poorer (9780553129137): David Hapgood: Books[/ame]
.
.
.
If grade school and high school were done right high school graduates would be as capable as most college graduates today. But no, waste kids time on English Literature. That is so much more important than understanding accounting. But then they might not be so easy for the government and the corporations to rip off.

psik