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When the NRA attempted to bring gun safety and awareness to schools, the left had a hissy fit. Eddie Eagle would NEVER be allowed to tell THEIR kids --- "if you SEE A GUN -- find an adult"...
Such is the insurmountable opposition to actually PROMOTING gun safety in this country.
Was in the 60s that high schools still had markmanship programs and sponsored competitions in PUBLIC high schools. The perfect equalizer for the misfit geek who would never letter in basketball. AND --- a perfect way of teaching discipline and responsibility. In fact, I was a member (and then a coach) for a (non-school) junior rifle team sponsored by the Civitans. Our ammo was supplied virtually FREE courtesy of the DOD.. (Civilian Marksmanship Training Program).. THAT -- ought to make leftists really indignent... Uncle Sam GIVING free bullets to teens.. How awful..... Now as a Libertarian --- i too --- find that to be scary. But not because of fear of teens with guns. <<Grin>>
What we saw this week was evil. Because of the massive overuse of killing force against the defenseless. The same amount of damage COULD have been inflicted with a cavalry sword or a propane bomb. We really need to focus on DEFENDING AGAINST EVIL --- not on the armament that the evil choose to use. Our kids SHOULD be protected in public space. And perhaps -- a couple licensed carry permits and a deputization of those teachers volunteering for the task would have been a better equalizer.
Call me simplistic. But, maybe easy access to firearms is the cause? I have read umpteen posts on this board by obviously intelligent people afraid their right own firearms is threatened because of horrific events like this last school shooting. Their concern isnt with much else, it seems. Too many people are obsessed with preserving the second amendment and possessing firearms than they are with safety and the health of the general public. THAT might be the real issue here. All the folks that drag their feet or totally resist removing firearms from our society in the name of freedom are a anachronism and are the cause of this type of thing. We would probably be much better off in a country that prohibited guns. That's my opinion.
so... in your perfect world, guns would be prohibited... which means that law-abiding citizens are disarmed... but of course doesn't mean that non-law-abiding persons will be disarmed...
so... how do you picture that working out... between the unarmed citizens and the armed criminal class...?
So in a perfect world, we NEED weapons to protect ourselves? Your post is is exactly what I was referring to.
When the NRA attempted to bring gun safety and awareness to schools, the left had a hissy fit. Eddie Eagle would NEVER be allowed to tell THEIR kids --- "if you SEE A GUN -- find an adult"...
Such is the insurmountable opposition to actually PROMOTING gun safety in this country.
Was in the 60s that high schools still had markmanship programs and sponsored competitions in PUBLIC high schools. The perfect equalizer for the misfit geek who would never letter in basketball. AND --- a perfect way of teaching discipline and responsibility. In fact, I was a member (and then a coach) for a (non-school) junior rifle team sponsored by the Civitans. Our ammo was supplied virtually FREE courtesy of the DOD.. (Civilian Marksmanship Training Program).. THAT -- ought to make leftists really indignent... Uncle Sam GIVING free bullets to teens.. How awful..... Now as a Libertarian --- i too --- find that to be scary. But not because of fear of teens with guns. <<Grin>>
What we saw this week was evil. Because of the massive overuse of killing force against the defenseless. The same amount of damage COULD have been inflicted with a cavalry sword or a propane bomb. We really need to focus on DEFENDING AGAINST EVIL --- not on the armament that the evil choose to use. Our kids SHOULD be protected in public space. And perhaps -- a couple licensed carry permits and a deputization of those teachers volunteering for the task would have been a better equalizer.
Get off it, Flatulance. The NRA is the primary agent responsible for the proliferation of the war guns in our society.
And our right wingnuts are the ones glorifying violence. Look at the number of them with guns in their avatars.
Guess I’m getting old, but what has happened to America? Every couple of days, killing here killing there…Shoppers and most recently babies.
I see the primary cause as video games and TV violence promoted as entertainment. The role models of Hollywood cutthroat entertainment, is pervasive.
Guns are everywhere.
But then why do we have less violence in europe? violent video games are abound there as well and tv violence is commonplace too.
Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.
* Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]
* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[19]
* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]
* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]
• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]
The problem is that most of those folks are operating on "belief" or "faith" if you like. Logic and facts will never change their position because their faith counters it at every turn. The same reason that prohibition and the war on drugs didn't work (and actually made things worse) is the reason that prohibiting guns won't work. Criminals seize opportunities that are adventagous to them and don't care about breaking the law. Anti-gun laws and gun free zones just empower them.
I gave you a + for your post!
Thanks for the fight.
Paul
Anyone that thinks the 2nd Amendment is about protecting the right to hunt is an idiot.
To understand the founding fathers mindset they just got done defeating the most powerful military on the planet, with some critical help from the Germans and French. Most of the local "rulers" tax collectors ...their own neighbors...were loyal to the British.
They knew that if the revolutionists were unarmed the revolution would have never happened and we would still be speaking English.
Clearly the right to bear arms and have a small well regulated militia was to protect ourselves from ourselves and a government that strayed from the intent of the constitution.
There have always been wolves howling at our heels trying to force their beliefs and desire for power using any trick they can think of to gain their ends. Anyone that thinks it coudn't happen here is a fool. Anyone that believes that a "civilized" society cannot go horribly wrong hasn't been paying attention. What happened in Germany is not ancient history. All it takes is the right circumstances .. and we are capable of incredible hubris, greed and vengence usually misplaced.
All we need is an excuse.. an enemy real or imagined. We invaded two sovereign countries because of 9/11. Neither one of these countries was involved in the planning and execution of the terrorists. At best all we really could accuse Afghanistan of was not having control of their land. They STILL don't have control of much of their land even after over ten years of us being there spending our treasure and lives to "show em how it's done". The real enemy preceeding 9/11 was our own stupidity. WE trained those guys to fly. Student pilots with practically no time invested NOT WANTING TO LEARN HOW TO LAND??? WTF??? WE had some FBI living with a couple of them and agents with their hair on fire and no action taken. When I was a student pilot IN FLORIDA ..if I had told my instructor I didn't really want to know how to land ...loud alarms would have gone off immediately and I would have been asked to leave and be reffered to a mental institution...to be observed for potential suicide.
9/11 was a hundred times more our own fault than any country in the ME or Africa. That may be our worst enemy is our innability to take responsibility for our own failures.
That is why we need guns in citizens possession. Our government is capable of incredible stupidity and damn right treasonous behavior. Our Government learned NOTHING from Viet Nam. Our Government can get so worked up and make dangerous decisions so easily it seems that they would gleefully march us right off a cliff and think nothing of it. No matter how insane the results they would surely justify any bad action without batting an eye. It has happened dozens of times in our own lifetimes. ..
No...the REAL reason why we have weapons is that our own elected officials cannot be trusted. They are just men. They let greed and lust for power and just damned stupidity pave the way to horrible mistakes that they are immune from the consequenses of.
Before I lose faith in the second amendment I am willing to see a thousand madmen kill innocent Americans. Yes it is horrible. Losing our country to someone elected to govern us, equally as insane, would be worse.
Guess I’m getting old, but what has happened to America? Every couple of days, killing here killing there…Shoppers and most recently babies.
I see the primary cause as video games and TV violence promoted as entertainment. The role models of Hollywood cutthroat entertainment, is pervasive.
Guns are everywhere.
Why are simple things impossible in this nation today.
"Other countries offer a road map. In Australia in 1996, a mass killing of 35 people galvanized the nation’s conservative prime minister to ban certain rapid-fire long guns. The “national firearms agreement,” as it was known, led to the buyback of 650,000 guns and to tighter rules for licensing and safe storage of those remaining in public hands.
The law did not end gun ownership in Australia. It reduced the number of firearms in private hands by one-fifth, and they were the kinds most likely to be used in mass shootings.
In the 18 years before the law, Australia suffered 13 mass shootings — but not one in the 14 years after the law took full effect. The murder rate with firearms has dropped by more than 40 percent, according to data compiled by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and the suicide rate with firearms has dropped by more than half.
Or we can look north to Canada. It now requires a 28-day waiting period to buy a handgun, and it imposes a clever safeguard: gun buyers should have the support of two people vouching for them."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opinion/sunday/kristof-do-we-have-the-courage-to-stop-this.html
Guess Im getting old, but what has happened to America? Every couple of days, killing here killing there Shoppers and most recently babies.
I see the primary cause as video games and TV violence promoted as entertainment. The role models of Hollywood cutthroat entertainment, is pervasive.
Guns are everywhere.
you mean liberals are everywhere- right?
In the Republican 1950's we were as Bush '41 said "a kinder gentler nation." We were happy to watch Ozzie and Harriot and "Leave It to Beaver." Now we live a "Grand Theft Auto" blood soaked liberal culture.
Liberal Marxist class warfare caused the change. Liberals made it black against white, men against women, rich against poor, gays against straights, freedom versus communism in Vietnam. Marxism/Obamaism seeks to undermine the basic principles of our culture as a necessary prelude to revolution.
The simple truths that we had lived by, the ones that made us the greatest nation in human history by far, gave way to liberal hated for America, and now we reap the rewards on many fronts.
Guess Im getting old, but what has happened to America? Every couple of days, killing here killing there Shoppers and most recently babies.
I see the primary cause as video games and TV violence promoted as entertainment. The role models of Hollywood cutthroat entertainment, is pervasive.
Guns are everywhere.
you mean liberals are everywhere- right?
In the Republican 1950's we were as Bush '41 said "a kinder gentler nation." We were happy to watch Ozzie and Harriot and "Leave It to Beaver." Now we live a "Grand Theft Auto" blood soaked liberal culture.
Liberal Marxist class warfare caused the change. Liberals made it black against white, men against women, rich against poor, gays against straights, freedom versus communism in Vietnam. Marxism/Obamaism seeks to undermine the basic principles of our culture as a necessary prelude to revolution.
The simple truths that we had lived by, the ones that made us the greatest nation in human history by far, gave way to liberal hated for America, and now we reap the rewards on many fronts.
As I remember history there were many killings in Medieval Europe, and other parts of the world long before Marx and Locke. A world that reveled in killing those of a different religion, or no religion. And in America for a time it was the white man versus the red man. And what of our Civil War? Although, come to think of it Marx did congratulate Lincoln on his reelection.
Why are simple things impossible in this nation today.
"Other countries offer a road map. In Australia in 1996, a mass killing of 35 people galvanized the nation’s conservative prime minister to ban certain rapid-fire long guns. The “national firearms agreement,” as it was known, led to the buyback of 650,000 guns and to tighter rules for licensing and safe storage of those remaining in public hands.
The law did not end gun ownership in Australia. It reduced the number of firearms in private hands by one-fifth, and they were the kinds most likely to be used in mass shootings.
In the 18 years before the law, Australia suffered 13 mass shootings — but not one in the 14 years after the law took full effect. The murder rate with firearms has dropped by more than 40 percent, according to data compiled by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and the suicide rate with firearms has dropped by more than half.
Or we can look north to Canada. It now requires a 28-day waiting period to buy a handgun, and it imposes a clever safeguard: gun buyers should have the support of two people vouching for them."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opinion/sunday/kristof-do-we-have-the-courage-to-stop-this.html
It reduced the number of firearms in private hands by one-fifth, and they were the kinds most likely to be used in mass shootings.
It reduced the number of firearms in private hands by one-fifth, and they were the kinds most likely to be used in mass shootings.
