All Teachers Fired at Underperforming School in Rhode Island

[rightwinger]

In New Jersey, we have something called Abbott Districts. There was a law suit that required that the poorest districts should have the same level of education as the richest districts (bizarre, but true)
Abbott Districts account for 10% of the schools but get 60% of the state funding. They receive about $24,000 a year per student compared to an average of $13,000 statewide.
The result is what you would expect.....no improvement in student scores in 20 years

That is is because money isn't always the answer.

That is obvious.

There are socioeconomic factors in some areas that no matter how much money you throw at it or how many teachers you fire, you will get similar results.

Do you think that when you fire teachers in this poor performing district that other superstar teachers will flock to fill those positions?

 

[Darkwind]

In New Jersey, we have something called Abbott Districts. There was a law suit that required that the poorest districts should have the same level of education as the richest districts (bizarre, but true)
Abbott Districts account for 10% of the schools but get 60% of the state funding. They receive about $24,000 a year per student compared to an average of $13,000 statewide.
The result is what you would expect.....no improvement in student scores in 20 years

That is is because money isn't always the answer.

That is obvious.

There are socioeconomic factors in some areas that no matter how much money you throw at it or how many teachers you fire, you will get similar results.

Do you think that when you fire teachers in this poor performing district that other superstar teachers will flock to fill those positions?

Of course not. That would be as foolish as saying that with all new teachers, the grades will remain low.

The key is to finding teachers who are driven to teach out of a deep felt need to do so.

Not teachers who are driven to a deep felt need to get an exemption from their work.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

School is over rated.

 

[rightwinger]

That is is because money isn't always the answer.

That is obvious.

There are socioeconomic factors in some areas that no matter how much money you throw at it or how many teachers you fire, you will get similar results.

Do you think that when you fire teachers in this poor performing district that other superstar teachers will flock to fill those positions?

Of course not. That would be as foolish as saying that with all new teachers, the grades will remain low.

The key is to finding teachers who are driven to teach out of a deep felt need to do so.

Not teachers who are driven to a deep felt need to get an exemption from their work.

Teachers with a drive to teach need feedback. They need to see that all their effort is rewarded. They need students who respond when offered new ideas. Students who are indifferent or openly hostile quickly turn great teachers into poor teachers

 

[kwc57]

School is over rated.

It shows.

 

[kwc57]

Education begins and ends at home. We are fortunate that we are in a decent school system, but good school or bad school, study and high grades are expected of my son. His education is a high priority in our home and his teachers know it because we show it. We stay in communication with them and we are constantly told how much they appreciate it. Today is my son's 17th birthday and he is a junior in high school, straight A's from kindergarten up to now and is in the 93 percentile. He just took the ACT for the first time with no prep at all to establish a base line and made a 26. We are lucky in that he is a very intelligent and bright kid. But what his natural intelligence doesn't do for him, the expectations, involvement and support at home are what has made a difference in his educational success. Teachers and school systems are only a piece of the big picture.

 

[Darkwind]

That is obvious.

There are socioeconomic factors in some areas that no matter how much money you throw at it or how many teachers you fire, you will get similar results.

Do you think that when you fire teachers in this poor performing district that other superstar teachers will flock to fill those positions?

Of course not. That would be as foolish as saying that with all new teachers, the grades will remain low.

The key is to finding teachers who are driven to teach out of a deep felt need to do so.

Not teachers who are driven to a deep felt need to get an exemption from their work.

Teachers with a drive to teach need feedback. They need to see that all their effort is rewarded. They need students who respond when offered new ideas. Students who are indifferent or openly hostile quickly turn great teachers into poor teachers

Well two things.

They are being compensated. In just about all professions, that is about all the feedback you get. Other then you get to come back next week and do it all over again. You won't find many jobs outside of teaching that have a 'tenure' that allows you to perform poorly and still have your job protected. When teachers want to teach, tenure doesn't factor in.

The other thing is, being a teacher, you are (allegedly) trained to deal with children who are hostile, reluctant to learn or otherwise outright disruptive.
There are many profession that deal with people. There are very few that accept excuses for someone not being able to deal with people. In other words, They were not cooperative doesn't cut it if your trained to deal with people.

So, give them some feedback. If the grades improve, you can come back next year. If you are unable to reach the children, we will find people who can.

There also needs to be an industry wide call to the Universities that a teaching degree MUST include more child psychology. Because they must not be getting enough in this district.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

School is over rated.

It shows.

John D. Rockefeller Sr., a high school dropout, became the first American billionaire and is said to be the richest man in history. He founded Standard Oil, the first multinational corporation, in 1870. The Supreme Court broke up the company in 1911 stating the company had violated anti-trust law creating a monopoly.

Henry Ford never graduated high school, but went on to start one of the largest automobile manufacturing companies in the world, Ford Motor Company. He’s also credited as being the first auto manufacturer to use an assembly line, completely revolutionizing the way cars were produced. The assembly line allowed Ford sell cars at a lower price but the company kept making higher profit because sales volumes continually increased. Time called Ford one of the most influential people of the 20th century.

Michael Dell, the founder and CEO of Dell, Inc., dropped out of college at 19. He first started his computer company in his college dorm room, later using company’s earnings and family loans to expand. In 2008, Forbes ranked Michael Dell #11 in its 400 Richest Americans. As of 2009, he has an estimated net worth of $12.3 billion.

Dave Thomas; The founder of Wendy’s, Dave Thomas started working in the restaurant industry at only 12 years old. His family was constantly on the move and at age 15, he refused to keep moving with his parents. He was working part time at the Hobby House restaurant in Fort Wayne and dropped out of high school to start working at the business full time.

After working as a mess sergeant during the Korean War, he began working for KFC, where he was able to help turn several of their failing franchises around. In 1969, he sold of the KFC franchises he owned and opened his own restaurant in Columbus, Ohio. He named the restaurant after his daughter, who was actually called Melinda, but was nicknamed Wendy. These days, Wendy’s is the third largest burger chain in America.

In 1993, Dave decided that he didn’t want to set a bad example for any youngsters out there, so he enrolled at Coconut Creek High School and earned his GED.

George Eastman, creator of the Kodak Camera Company, George Eastman, was forced to drop out of school due to financial circumstances. At only 14, his father died and the only way George could keep his two sisters and mother alive was to quit school and begin working as an office boy full time. By the age of 26, Eastman found his true calling and began working to improve the emulsion process involved in photography. He thought the liquid emulsions proved quite a problem as they were excessively sticky and had to be used quickly before they dried. In only three years, Eastman had perfected his dry emulsion plates and he started his own photographic business in 1880.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I think they need to fire the parents

rightwinger wins the stupidest quote of the day award!

What was stupid about what he said? The point he is making is that the bulk of the problem is with the parents at home and not the teachers and he is absolutely correct. Education begins at the home. If parents have an interest in their child's education then the child will excel in school. So many people want to blame the teachers for bad test scores and sure, there are some bad teachers out there, but it all comes back to the parents and whether or not they view school as taxpayer funded day care center for their kids while they're away at work.

 

[kwc57]

School is over rated.

It shows.

John D. Rockefeller Sr., a high school dropout, became the first American billionaire and is said to be the richest man in history. He founded Standard Oil, the first multinational corporation, in 1870. The Supreme Court broke up the company in 1911 stating the company had violated anti-trust law creating a monopoly.

Henry Ford never graduated high school, but went on to start one of the largest automobile manufacturing companies in the world, Ford Motor Company. He’s also credited as being the first auto manufacturer to use an assembly line, completely revolutionizing the way cars were produced. The assembly line allowed Ford sell cars at a lower price but the company kept making higher profit because sales volumes continually increased. Time called Ford one of the most influential people of the 20th century.

Michael Dell, the founder and CEO of Dell, Inc., dropped out of college at 19. He first started his computer company in his college dorm room, later using company’s earnings and family loans to expand. In 2008, Forbes ranked Michael Dell #11 in its 400 Richest Americans. As of 2009, he has an estimated net worth of $12.3 billion.

Dave Thomas; The founder of Wendy’s, Dave Thomas started working in the restaurant industry at only 12 years old. His family was constantly on the move and at age 15, he refused to keep moving with his parents. He was working part time at the Hobby House restaurant in Fort Wayne and dropped out of high school to start working at the business full time.

After working as a mess sergeant during the Korean War, he began working for KFC, where he was able to help turn several of their failing franchises around. In 1969, he sold of the KFC franchises he owned and opened his own restaurant in Columbus, Ohio. He named the restaurant after his daughter, who was actually called Melinda, but was nicknamed Wendy. These days, Wendy’s is the third largest burger chain in America.

In 1993, Dave decided that he didn’t want to set a bad example for any youngsters out there, so he enrolled at Coconut Creek High School and earned his GED.

George Eastman, creator of the Kodak Camera Company, George Eastman, was forced to drop out of school due to financial circumstances. At only 14, his father died and the only way George could keep his two sisters and mother alive was to quit school and begin working as an office boy full time. By the age of 26, Eastman found his true calling and began working to improve the emulsion process involved in photography. He thought the liquid emulsions proved quite a problem as they were excessively sticky and had to be used quickly before they dried. In only three years, Eastman had perfected his dry emulsion plates and he started his own photographic business in 1880.

You do realize that three of your five examples are from the late 1800's where the educational process was far different from todays don't you? Of your two contemorary examples, one was a high school graduate who left college and the other went back and finished his education because he believed it was important to set a proper educational example for children.

What is the common denominator of the five people you profiled? Highly intelligent and motivated individuals. In most cases, the motivation was the result of their home environment.

Can a highly intelligent and motivated person become a millionaire without the benefit of a traditional education track? Of course they can........but they are the exception and not the rule. They are a tiny fraction of the huge numbers of deadbeats and failures who quit school and squeak by on low paying jobs or even worse, state sponsered welfare.

School is NOT overrated and opens more doors and opportunities than dropping out and playing the odds that your idea is going to pay off big ever will.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Kudos to the Board.

Fire 'em all!

Hire 'em back one at a time as they prove themselves worthy of the job description...;teach our children what ever it is your were hired to teach...or get out of our way! Teaching should be performance based, not union protected, The teacher's union does more damage to our educational system than any other source.

Actually, there are two sources of the disaster that has replaced education in the United States.

Yes, the teachers unions are one, but their instigation was brought on by less than fair remuneration for the teachers prior to the 60's. In many ways teachers were forced into blue-color-unionization as a replacement for the respect and professionalization that they had before.

The real catastrophe took place when progressive education replaced the traditional.

1. Though the Progressive Education Association had shut its doors in 1955, arguments still seethed in the K-12 world between ‘progressives’ and ‘essentialists,’…. “Subject matter” had been in eclipse for so long in US education that its absence was no longer felt, save by a handful of critics. (E.D. Hirsch, Jr. “The Schools We Need And Why We don’t Have Them,” p. 50)

2. Next came “open education,” the antiauthoritarianism sweeping the campuses and finding a home with educators who already believed that students were better able than their teachers to determine what they needed to learn.

a. “The open education movement…took off in 1967 after publication of a series of articles by Joseph Featherstone in The New Republic, ….In the British primary schools, the routine of the day ‘is left completely up to the teacher, and the teacher, in turn, leaves options open to the children” [believing that] ‘in a rich environment young children can learn a great deal by themselves and that most often their own choices reflect their needs.’

b. Educators who had been raised on the tenets of progressive education hailed ‘open education’ as the best approach for every stage of schooling. Its hallmarks were familiar to American progressives. An open school emphasized projects, activities, and student initiative. Its teachers were ‘facilitators’ of learning, not transmitters of knowledge…Multiage groupings and individualized instruction were typical. Classrooms were arranged by activity centers, not by desks facing the teacher.” (Diane Ravitch, “Left Back: A Century of Failed School Reform,” p. 395-396)

c. A.S. Neill published Summerhill, in 1960, celebrating naturalistic learning and schools that scrapped discipline, foreswore standards, and encouraged children to learn what and how and when they wished. Ivan Illich urged the ‘de-schooling’ of society; Charles Silberman (Crisis in the Classroom) celebrated Britain’s child-centered ‘open-education’ methods as an antidote to the ‘mindlessness’ of US schools.



Teachers will do the job for which they are held accountable.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think they need to fire the parents

No one ever talks about that, do they? Teachers has the kids how long? 45-50 min a day, 5 days a week, for 180 days. They cannot force the kids to learn. They cannot force them to care, they cannot even keep them for remediation if the parents don't approve it. They cannot retain them if the parents don't approve it.


Of course it's the teachers' fault.


And I'm sure every single one of those teachers is rotten to the core.

A common denominator for underperforming schools is underperforming parents. Doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, how many teachers you replace, how long the school day is.
If the kid does not want to learn, he will not. If the parents don't give a damn, the kid will not give a damn

You are, of course, correct.

The sad part is that Coleman spotlit this point in 1966!

"The result was a massive report of over 700 pages. That 1966 report — titled "Equality of Educational Opportunity" (or often simply called the "Coleman Report") — fueled debate about "school effects" that has continued since.[1][2] The report was commonly presented as evidence, or an argument, that school funding has little effect on student achievement."
James Samuel Coleman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Lonestar_logic]

It shows.

John D. Rockefeller Sr., a high school dropout, became the first American billionaire and is said to be the richest man in history. He founded Standard Oil, the first multinational corporation, in 1870. The Supreme Court broke up the company in 1911 stating the company had violated anti-trust law creating a monopoly.

Henry Ford never graduated high school, but went on to start one of the largest automobile manufacturing companies in the world, Ford Motor Company. He’s also credited as being the first auto manufacturer to use an assembly line, completely revolutionizing the way cars were produced. The assembly line allowed Ford sell cars at a lower price but the company kept making higher profit because sales volumes continually increased. Time called Ford one of the most influential people of the 20th century.

Michael Dell, the founder and CEO of Dell, Inc., dropped out of college at 19. He first started his computer company in his college dorm room, later using company’s earnings and family loans to expand. In 2008, Forbes ranked Michael Dell #11 in its 400 Richest Americans. As of 2009, he has an estimated net worth of $12.3 billion.

Dave Thomas; The founder of Wendy’s, Dave Thomas started working in the restaurant industry at only 12 years old. His family was constantly on the move and at age 15, he refused to keep moving with his parents. He was working part time at the Hobby House restaurant in Fort Wayne and dropped out of high school to start working at the business full time.

After working as a mess sergeant during the Korean War, he began working for KFC, where he was able to help turn several of their failing franchises around. In 1969, he sold of the KFC franchises he owned and opened his own restaurant in Columbus, Ohio. He named the restaurant after his daughter, who was actually called Melinda, but was nicknamed Wendy. These days, Wendy’s is the third largest burger chain in America.

In 1993, Dave decided that he didn’t want to set a bad example for any youngsters out there, so he enrolled at Coconut Creek High School and earned his GED.

George Eastman, creator of the Kodak Camera Company, George Eastman, was forced to drop out of school due to financial circumstances. At only 14, his father died and the only way George could keep his two sisters and mother alive was to quit school and begin working as an office boy full time. By the age of 26, Eastman found his true calling and began working to improve the emulsion process involved in photography. He thought the liquid emulsions proved quite a problem as they were excessively sticky and had to be used quickly before they dried. In only three years, Eastman had perfected his dry emulsion plates and he started his own photographic business in 1880.

You do realize that three of your five examples are from the late 1800's where the educational process was far different from todays don't you? Of your two contemorary examples, one was a high school graduate who left college and the other went back and finished his education because he believed it was important to set a proper educational example for children.

What is the common denominator of the five people you profiled? Highly intelligent and motivated individuals. In most cases, the motivation was the result of their home environment.

Can a highly intelligent and motivated person become a millionaire without the benefit of a traditional education track? Of course they can........but they are the exception and not the rule. They are a tiny fraction of the huge numbers of deadbeats and failures who quit school and squeak by on low paying jobs or even worse, state sponsered welfare.

School is NOT overrated and opens more doors and opportunities than dropping out and playing the odds that your idea is going to pay off big ever will.

I wasn't born in the 1800's and I quit school after the eight grade, through hard work I now own over five thousand acres of land in Texas and Mexico. A few years ago I sold some land along the Hwy 288 corridor just south of Houston for 1.7 million dollars . I earn over six figures in salary a year working with an engineering and construction firm, I co-own two businesses, one a bail bond agency the other a gun shop. I also breed Black angus cows that's been fairly lucrative but it's mostly a hobby so I don't mind taking a loss, which is rare.

I think anyone that learned the basics (the three r's) can accomplish whatever they wish. I was fortunate enough to have people around me to advise me and keep my ass out of prison, much of my success is due to Red Adair and former Texas Governor Mark White, along with my wife who's now deceased (she died giving birth to my fifth child and only son). Hell if I can accomplish all this with an eight grade education, anyone can!

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think they need to fire the parents

rightwinger wins the stupidest quote of the day award!

Now during high unemployment times is the best time to fire or shake-up all the teachers, because there is a larger pool of unemployed talented teachers to select from. The school has the best chance now to find just the right teachers. Way to go!

If the scores are historically horrible, then the parents are assholes who don't care about education and instead use the school system as a day care for kids 5 to 18. Good education principles begin with parents at home who name names, ground kids, reward kids, and push kids to excel in school.

Many of my family are school teachers and college professors, and almost every last one of them supports the firing of the teachers because they will not work with the supe and the board in trying to change the culture of failure there.

But I will tell you this: if the parents don't support education, nothing is going to work for the great majority of the kids.

Sorry, my friend. The parents have little choice in the education of their children. The schools that are in the thrall of progressive education, and have the backing of the courts that tell parents that the educrats determine curriculum, hold all the cards!

If you don't think so, take a look at the long lines when charter schools open up, and the desire for vouchers especially by minority parents.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Progressive education is student-centered education based on professionalism and reform. Standardized high-stakes testing is not progressive education. You are misusing the term. Where charter schools work well is a combination of involved parents and student-centered education.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Progressive education is student-centered education based on professional and reform. Standardized high-stakes testing is not progressive education. You are misusing the term. Where charter schools work well is a combination of involved parents and student-centered education.

Charter schools may be of any stripe, and have any curriculum. You miss my point: the majority of public schools are progressive inspired, and parents sense the fault. That is why both charter schools and vouchers are so popular. If the Democrat Party was not attached at the hip to the teachers' unions, there would be no limits on either.

"Charter schools are public schools that operate largely independently, functioning in essence as their own school districts. Without the restrictions imposed by collective- bargaining agreements with teachers, charter schools are free to experiment in ways that traditional public schools cannot. Thus, the type of education charters provide varies substantially—and not only from that offered in the traditional public sector, but also among charters themselves." Charters’ Promise by Marcus A. Winters, City Journal 28 September 2009

Progressive education is a misunderstanding of education, and of human nature.

"How then can we be sure that rejecting progressive education and replacing it
with traditional and classical notions regarding education will result in enhanced student
achievement, higher literacy rates and, one hopes, more intelligent participation in
democratic processes? Data are already available that show that students in nonprogressiveschools achieve at higher rates than those in progressive schools and that
students from deprived backgrounds do better in non-progressive schools.
Comparative studies of studentachievement have consistently shown that students from the U.S. do poorly, especially inscience and mathematics, when compared with students from other industrializednations.

It is, to be sure, not surprising if students from schools which stress hard work,
practice, memorization and mastery of content do better on standardized tests. Data from
comparative studies have already provided ammunition for those who consider
progressive education a seriously flawed philosophy of education that should be exposed
and rejected."

http://www.macalester.edu/~reedy/Samos07-ULTIssima-3[1].pdf

"The “Massachusetts miracle,” in which Bay State students’ soaring test scores broke records, was the direct consequence of the state legislature’s passage of the 1993 Education Reform Act, which established knowledge-based standards for all grades and a rigorous testing system linked to the new standards. And those standards, Massachusetts reformers have acknowledged, are Hirsch’s legacy."http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_4_hirsch.html

As far as "student-centered education," here is the result of progressive ed, from a recent WSJ article:

“With Wall Street in turmoil and a financial system in crisis mode, companies are facing another major challenge: figuring out how to manage a new crop of young people in the work force -- the millennial generation. Born between 1980 and 2001, the millennials were coddled by their parents and nurtured with a strong sense of entitlement. In this adaptation from "The Trophy Kids Grow Up: How the Millennial Generation Is Shaking Up the Workplace," Ron Alsop, a contributor to The Wall Street Journal, describes the workplace attitudes of the millennials and employers' efforts to manage these demanding rookies."

The 'Trophy Kids' Go to Work - WSJ.com

 

[JakeStarkey]

PoliticalChic, you are merely mouthing talking points. Do you know what progressive education is along with pragmatism, critical thinking principles, instrumentalism, and Deweyism? The charter schools that succeed on this bedrock: it teaches children how to think.

If you are saying that big government is in the way, then, yes, you are 100% right. I have no use for the U.S. Department of Education or any of the state Education agencies or administrations. But if you think going back to 19th-century education is the right path, then I believe you are not only lost but on the wrong track altogether.

 

[bodecea]

John D. Rockefeller Sr., a high school dropout, became the first American billionaire and is said to be the richest man in history. He founded Standard Oil, the first multinational corporation, in 1870. The Supreme Court broke up the company in 1911 stating the company had violated anti-trust law creating a monopoly.

Henry Ford never graduated high school, but went on to start one of the largest automobile manufacturing companies in the world, Ford Motor Company. He’s also credited as being the first auto manufacturer to use an assembly line, completely revolutionizing the way cars were produced. The assembly line allowed Ford sell cars at a lower price but the company kept making higher profit because sales volumes continually increased. Time called Ford one of the most influential people of the 20th century.

Michael Dell, the founder and CEO of Dell, Inc., dropped out of college at 19. He first started his computer company in his college dorm room, later using company’s earnings and family loans to expand. In 2008, Forbes ranked Michael Dell #11 in its 400 Richest Americans. As of 2009, he has an estimated net worth of $12.3 billion.

Dave Thomas; The founder of Wendy’s, Dave Thomas started working in the restaurant industry at only 12 years old. His family was constantly on the move and at age 15, he refused to keep moving with his parents. He was working part time at the Hobby House restaurant in Fort Wayne and dropped out of high school to start working at the business full time.

After working as a mess sergeant during the Korean War, he began working for KFC, where he was able to help turn several of their failing franchises around. In 1969, he sold of the KFC franchises he owned and opened his own restaurant in Columbus, Ohio. He named the restaurant after his daughter, who was actually called Melinda, but was nicknamed Wendy. These days, Wendy’s is the third largest burger chain in America.

In 1993, Dave decided that he didn’t want to set a bad example for any youngsters out there, so he enrolled at Coconut Creek High School and earned his GED.

George Eastman, creator of the Kodak Camera Company, George Eastman, was forced to drop out of school due to financial circumstances. At only 14, his father died and the only way George could keep his two sisters and mother alive was to quit school and begin working as an office boy full time. By the age of 26, Eastman found his true calling and began working to improve the emulsion process involved in photography. He thought the liquid emulsions proved quite a problem as they were excessively sticky and had to be used quickly before they dried. In only three years, Eastman had perfected his dry emulsion plates and he started his own photographic business in 1880.

You do realize that three of your five examples are from the late 1800's where the educational process was far different from todays don't you? Of your two contemorary examples, one was a high school graduate who left college and the other went back and finished his education because he believed it was important to set a proper educational example for children.

What is the common denominator of the five people you profiled? Highly intelligent and motivated individuals. In most cases, the motivation was the result of their home environment.

Can a highly intelligent and motivated person become a millionaire without the benefit of a traditional education track? Of course they can........but they are the exception and not the rule. They are a tiny fraction of the huge numbers of deadbeats and failures who quit school and squeak by on low paying jobs or even worse, state sponsered welfare.

School is NOT overrated and opens more doors and opportunities than dropping out and playing the odds that your idea is going to pay off big ever will.

I wasn't born in the 1800's and I quit school after the eight grade, through hard work I now own over five thousand acres of land in Texas and Mexico. A few years ago I sold some land along the Hwy 288 corridor just south of Houston for 1.7 million dollars . I earn over six figures in salary a year working with an engineering and construction firm, I co-own two businesses, one a bail bond agency the other a gun shop. I also breed Black angus cows that's been fairly lucrative but it's mostly a hobby so I don't mind taking a loss, which is rare.

I think anyone that learned the basics (the three r's) can accomplish whatever they wish. I was fortunate enough to have people around me to advise me and keep my ass out of prison, much of my success is due to Red Adair and former Texas Governor Mark White, along with my wife who's now deceased (she died giving birth to my fifth child and only son). Hell if I can accomplish all this with an eight grade education, anyone can!

Alrightie, then.

 

[bodecea]

Progressive education is student-centered education based on professional and reform. Standardized high-stakes testing is not progressive education. You are misusing the term. Where charter schools work well is a combination of involved parents and student-centered education.

And most private schools succeed for two reasons. One, they require parents to participate and volunteer a certain set number of hours per school year, and two, if the student does not do well, they are asked to leave.

Can public schools do these things?

 

[PoliticalChic]

PoliticalChic, you are merely mouthing talking points. Do you know what progressive education is along with pragmatism, critical thinking principles, instrumentalism, and Deweyism? The charter schools that succeed on this bedrock: it teaches children how to think.

If you are saying that big government is in the way, then, yes, you are 100% right. I have no use for the U.S. Department of Education or any of the state Education agencies or administrations. But if you think going back to 19th-century education is the right path, then I believe you are not only lost but on the wrong track altogether.

Are you attempting to defend a failed pedagogy? Why?

If you read my previous post, you would see that I have noted that traditional education regularly produces not only better prepared students, those with more knowledge and true self-esteem based on achievement, but students without the obnoxious sense of entitlement noted in the WSJ article that you seem not to have consulted.

Yours, and that of the educational establishment, is the kind of resistence that prevents the proven analyses back to Coleman's '66 report, and those which also indicate that parochial schools, private schools, as well as charters, out-perform the public schools on a regular basis, from being implemented.

Data is availble, yet you continue to support a failed thesis. Odd.