Al Jazeera-Supporting U.S. Soldiers Must Be Tried for Treason!

[SPIKESMYGOD]

Upon seeing the photos of six U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi POWs, I nearly punched my fist through a wall.....and NOT the one Gorelick helped to build.

Needless to say, I hardly EVER trust ANYTHING CBS reports, but this time they have nailed it, unfortunately. Their report brought to light that six soldiers from the 800th military police physically abused, mentally tortured[they hooked up fake electrical devices to the POWs' genitals & threatened to shock them], and humiliated numerous Iraqi POWs for their own depraved entertainment. This occurred in the exact same prison, Abu Ghraib, where Saddam, his rotting sons, and his thugs tortured, raped, and killed thousands upon thousands of Iraqis, usually innocent of any crime. Now, these individuals HAVE probably committed crimes against us or their fellow Iraqis, but the soldiers have committed crimes FAR worse with their filthy, violent debauchery.

President Bush, by all accounts, is going through the roof over this incident, as I am sure Rummy, Condy and others are, as well. President Bush has ordered that these soldiers face charges at a court-martial and, most likely, brig time and dishonorable discharges. However, if I were president, I would go much farther:

I would charge these six soldiers with treason and make sure that they spent at LEAST ten years in prison. Harsh, you say? NOT EVEN CLOSE.

The radicals with whom we are fighting and a LOT of the arab world, en masse, believe the worst about us and this just proves them RIGHT! Before this, we could truthfully tell Iraqis, the Middle East, and the whole world that Al Jazeera & other radical islamic propaganda machines are 100% liars. We could prove that their stories about us targeting civilians, stealing Iraq's oil, and wishing to conquer arab land were complete lies. Well, fu*k all of that NOW! These stupid, mentally deranged criminals- they don't DESERVE the title of "soldier"- have detonated a MOAB on America's ethical landscape, thus destroying our moral high ground in one fell swoop.

So, you STILL think treason is going too far? Well, what is the definition of treason?....Giving aid and/or comfort to the enemy.

Al Jazeera, the media wing of Al Qaeda, has now posted these images all over the Mid East, and there is not one fu*king thing we can say to refute these charges, for they are true. Just when our coalition tv station and new moderate arabic network, one very "fair & Balanced," are taking hold in Iraq & other arab nations, we have been handed a HUGE PR setback. Now, every time Al Jazeera broadcasts the next filthy lie about us, Iraqis & others will remember this incident and be FAR more likely to believe it. Matter of fact, I am sure that Al Jazeera, knowing this fact, will become even MORE devious & bold in their deceitful propaganda. We have given them the rope with which they will use to hang us in the public. They have won a HUGE victory in their desire to keep the Iraqi people in bondage, hating us for acts we have never committed.......and we handed it to them on a silver platter.

99% of our soldiers are brave, intelligent, honorable men & women, and THEY now have been besmirched by the evil deeds of these few bad apples. The fact that these pictures hit the world stage only a week after Pat Tillman, like so many others, sacrificed his life so that Iraqis & Afghans could be free and we Americans can live a life free from terrorism truly disgusts me to a point of anger and, nearly, tears.

Now, if a soldier captures a terrorist who has just killed some of his fellow soldiers, I would have no problem with them pushing them down onto their kness and putting a bullet in the back of his head. That said, these POWs might have only been common criminals, and these "soldiers" took them from their secure cells, stripped them naked, and tortured and humiliated them. WE DO NOT DO THIS! WE ARE BETTER THAN SADDAM & HIS THUGS! WE ARE AMERICANS, THE PROTECTORS OF MORALITY, HUMANITY, COMPASSION, & STRENGTH, NOT BRUTALITY.

These American thugs are a disgrace to their uniform, to this country, and to humanity. They should be labeled as traitors and their lives should be ruined, for I am sure that some of our brave soldiers are going to pay the price for their acts WITH THEIR LIVES!

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Well written as usual. The 6 "soldiers" are a disgrace to the country and screwing up what we are trying to do in Iraq.

 

[insein]

Agreed. Their service was commendable for going. However their actions have deemed them dishonorable and disgrace the name of the US military. Military prison is more than acceptable for their disgraceful acts that have given a bad name to their unit.

 

[DKSuddeth]

a bad name to their unit????? you do realize that this incident alone has cost us any opportunity at pacifying the occupation of iraq and tarnished the war on terror, right?

It doesn't matter that only 6 out of 130k+ acted in a disgusting and unprofessional manner, this will be seen as indicative of all american behavior.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
a bad name to their unit????? you do realize that this incident alone has cost us any opportunity at pacifying the occupation of iraq and tarnished the war on terror, right?

It doesn't matter that only 6 out of 130k+ acted in a disgusting and unprofessional manner, this will be seen as indicative of all american behavior.

Idiots will see it that way. Those who know americans, know better. I wonder how america libs will spin it? This is the true test of them. will they encourage that MISPERCEPTION on the part of foreigners? Probably. That's why they disgust me.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Idiots will see it that way. Those who know americans, know better. I wonder how america libs will spin it? This is the true test of them. will they encourage that MISPERCEPTION on the part of foreigners? Probably. That's why they disgust me.

you're a blind naive fool. talk about idiocy, you need to look in the mirror. these people will see and know america only by those pictures and the story. you've too much tunnel vision for your own good, its obvious you don't see how the real world out there is going to truly react to this issue.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Idiots will see it that way. Those who know americans, know better. I wonder how america libs will spin it? This is the true test of them. will they encourage that MISPERCEPTION on the part of foreigners? Probably. That's why they disgust me.

You miss the point RWA. Al Jazeera & co will run this endlessly to prove how correct all of their previous propaganda is. These 6 have no idea how much damage their idiotic behavior caused.

I can fault the biased US media for many things, but you can't lay this at their feet.

DK, you're scaring me with your increased spiral of anger

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
You miss the point RWA. Al Jazeera & co will run this endlessly to prove how correct all of their previous propaganda is. These 6 have no idea how much damage their idiotic behavior caused.

I can fault the biased US media for many things, but you can't lay this at their feet.

DK, you're scaring me with your increased spiral of anger

I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for Kerry and the Lib media to refer to the Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam alongside this story. In 3... 2... 1...

Not that this nude Arab photo incident involves any rape, torture, or murder, all more serious war crimes from Vietnam.

But that's what they'll do, draw comparisons.

While the murder and mutulation of US civlians invoked a range of reactions from denouncement to celebration, there was zero expectation in the Arab world for justice against those responsible, by any local or even a greater Islamic authority.

Yet justice against those involved here is not even a question in the media. It's already started up the chain of command.

rtwngAvngr, is absolutely correct though, Idiots will read this as another "humuliation" inflicted by America. And every time there is a a rape, torture, or murder of any US civilians they will bring this up to show justification for these truly henious acts.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by Comrade
I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for Kerry and the Lib media to refer to the Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam alongside this story. In 3... 2... 1...

Not that this nude Arab photo incident involves any rape, torture, or murder, all more serious war crimes from Vietnam.

But that's what they'll do, draw comparisons.

While the murder and mutulation of US civlians invoked a range of reactions from denouncement to celebration, there was zero expectation in the Arab world for justice against those responsible, by any local or even a greater Islamic authority.

Yet justice against those involved here is not even a question in the media. It's already started up the chain of command.

No arguement here

rtwngAvngr, is absolutely correct though, Idiots will read this as another "humuliation" inflicted by America. And every time there is a a rape, torture, or murder of any US civilians they will bring this up to show justification for these truly henious acts.

The part of RWA's post that I was addressing was the Those who know americans, know better part. There are too many people outside of the US that think we are the evil empire (to cop my favorite Reagan phrase). As for the idiots, they already manufacture enough BS on their own, they don't need any help. Too many of the "idiots" are out there ready to use this incident to further sway public opinion.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
No arguement here


The part of RWA's post that I was addressing was the Those who know americans, know better part. There are too many people outside of the US that think we are the evil empire (to cop my favorite Reagan phrase). As for the idiots, they already manufacture enough BS on their own, they don't need any help. Too many of the "idiots" are out there ready to use this incident to further sway public opinion.

I don't doubt that. What I think RWA was saying, contrary to most of the angry posts here, is exactly what you mean. This incident is rather meaningless to the seething of the Arab world, who is complient in failing to enact justice among their own sadistic acts.

Any rational person can tell the difference between the US and it's reaction to inhuman treatment among their own, and the many Arab regimes who will at the most "condemn" a far more horrible act.

 

[pegwinn]

Before my unit went to Iraq they (and all of I MEF) got refreshers on the stated Rules of Engagement, Law of Land Warfare, and EPW Handling. I absolutely refuse to believe that the Army of the United States didn't do the same thing. These are undisciplined pigs with undisciplined leadership.

1. Court Marshall all concerned who are suspected of direct action. That would include the female soldier who was entranced with the Iraqi privates privates.

2. NJP/ART 15/Captains Mast/Office Hours for the indirect leaders who may've turned a blind eye. Why? Because the rules of evidence for NJP is different than a CM. The leaders careers are terminated in today's competitive services by an NJP.

3. Censure/Reprimand the senior leaders who may've allowed this by reason of neglect or stupidity. Again, if it happens it will terminate the career and any future political ambitions.

4. Do it in IRAQ in view of the public to include Al-Jazzy. Simultaneously make sure that as we publicize our disgust at our own actions, we must continue to hammer home the fact that they are nothing compared to the regimes war crimes / atrocities. Basically, broadcast trial updates, then follow with footage of the rape rooms and ovens.

This method works all the time in Japan and Europe when the SOFA's and US Armed Forces are having a problem. By allowing the foreign nationals the chance to see us police our own, they will come around in ones and twos. Make sure that the full ramifications of #'s 2 & 3 are published and explained. We don't want any accusations that the leaders got away.

Most Iraqis want Us to go home, and they want to come with us.

 

[Annie]

You've posted nothing that I've disagreed with. Seems to me you might find this interesting:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110005024

The photograph below was taken at Camp Pendleton, the Marine Corps base 38 miles north of San Diego. It shows Col. Robert Knapp and Spirit of America's Jim Hake in front of the television equipment that was bought with contributions from readers of this newspaper and others. It will be in the air tomorrow, bound for Al Anbar province in Iraq. There, Marines from the First Expeditionary Force will help Iraqis restore seven local TV stations.

This is a remarkable story of can-do. I think it is also the story of a nation willing to do more than it has been asked by the Bush administration. It is about the need for an Iraqi homefront.

The column describing Spirit of America's effort to raise $100,000 for the TV stations appeared in this space 14 days ago. Since then, the following has happened:

Jim Hake, Spirit of America's entrepreneur founder, says they have received $1.52 million. Some 7,000 donations have come from every state, and one from . . . France.

Mr. Hake purchased all the needed equipment and had suppliers ship directly to Camp Pendleton. Federal Express donated domestic shipping costs.

Stanley Hubbard at Hubbard Broadcasting Inc. in Minnesota has offered several hundred thousand dollars in state of the art digital television equipment. That equipment would provide satellite uplink and downlink capability, allowing the Iraqis' TV stations to get program content from elsewhere in the world.

Mr. Hake has received five new requests from military in Iraq and also in Afghanistan, the live war that faded from view until Pat Tillman, the former NFL player, was killed there. A Special Forces soldier in Afghanistan requested soccer equipment for a village team: "They compete regionally but have no equipment save a couple of soccer balls." The team's equipment will soon be shipped.

Sounds like small potatoes. But in the relatively alien worlds the U.S. now finds itself, represented by its soldiers, this is what must be done if we hope to extinguish terrorism and restore self-government in lands taken over by terrorist networks.

Tellingly, Mr. Hake has also received a request from a Coalition Provisional Authority office in Iraq. The CPA of course is the U.S. government agency officially tasked with restoring Iraq, and funded by Congress (i.e., the American people). That the CPA itself would ask Jim Hake for help suggests that peacetime rules and red tape are smothering a wartime effort--whether by the CPA, private contractors or the military. This is a good subject for another time (horror stories of bureaucracy run wild welcome at the address below).





Let us downshift a moment from this tale of real people giving their own money to do real good in Iraq to survey how the war appears more familiarly in the life of America. Just in the past week, amid televised scenes of U.S. soldiers fighting to defeat their killers and the killers of Iraqi innocents in Fallujah and Najaf, the homefront consisted of:
John Kerry sitting down Monday with ABC's Charles Gibson to parse "medals" and "ribbons" in panicked syntax that recalled Ralph Cramden's famous "hummina-hummina-hummina" routine; a debate over televising covered coffins; an appearance before the all-partisan September 11 commission by the President and Vice President; and tonight's scheduled naming by Ted Koppel of every U.S. soldier killed in Iraq the past year. Mr. Koppel said, "We felt that the impact would actually be greater on a day when the entire nation is not focused on its war dead." Not focused on its war dead?

The war as it is presented in the U.S. and the war as it exists in Iraq seems to occupy separate spheres of reality. The political class and media treat the war as something whose "policy" details can somehow be revisited, even rethought. At home, the war is a political event, a normal partisan phenomenon. Its metaphors are borne out of Vietnam--quagmire, bogged down, body counts, Ted Kennedy.

Guess what? Vietnam isn't coming back. The people of this country tore the nation's fabric terribly over Vietnam. They are not going to do it again.

The grand response to the Spirit of America request says to me that the public understands that we are there in Iraq and the job now isn't to debate its value but to get the job done. Most Americans don't want to be one of the partisan bobbleheads on television. They want to be part of a genuine homefront, helping. One who responded to the Spirit of America appeal, Dick Kampa of Tucson, Ariz., put it this way:

"My sense is that there are many who would support civilian, home-front activity that would bolster troop morale and communicate to the Iraqi people that we really are their friends. Putting a political label on such activity would be counterproductive. I think Democrats and Republicans should, and many would, unite in these activities. Perhaps we need rallies or community meetings linked to constructive actions like funds for impactful projects in Iraq, adopt-a-communities, collection of goods, bandage rolling, etc., things that involve people across America."

You know for a fact that if Laura Bush undertook any such homefront effort, it would be dissected and mocked as hokey and irrelevant. Too bad. I don't think most Americans want to debate woulda, coulda, shoulda just now. They want to win. Spirit of America is a start, but someone high in the Bush administration ought to start thinking of ways to let more people pitch in.

 

[Hobbit]

Treason's a bit harsh and no prosecutor could make it stick. Remember, it's a capital crime. Don't think they'll get off easy, though. Military prison is like 20 years of boot camp, and there are no highly paid lawyers to twist the law to your favor and no appeals.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Treason's a bit harsh and no prosecutor could make it stick. Remember, it's a capital crime. Don't think they'll get off easy, though. Military prison is like 20 years of boot camp, and there are no highly paid lawyers to twist the law to your favor and no appeals.

Real prison should be like military prison. Not like a 3 star hotel.

 

[Adam's Apple]

There should be an investigation of this whole incident. How did CBS get these pictures? Who was their collaborator? Were the pictures staged especially for publication? Did CBS pay for these photographs? For what reason were they looking for photos like this to publish? I have real reservations about CBS and wonder whose side they are really on in this war--the U.S. or the terrorists. They use every opportunity to broadcast things that reflect badly on the U.S. I am beginning to think CBS is the U.S. version of Al Jazeera. Their hatred for President Bush to the extent that they would seriously damage their own country by seeking out and publishing such pictures as this is very, very troubling and makes one SUSPICIOUS of their ulterior motives.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Adam's Apple
There should be an investigation of this whole incident. How did CBS get these pictures? Who was their collaborator? Were the pictures staged especially for publication? Did CBS pay for these photographs? For what reason were they looking for photos like this to publish? I have real reservations about CBS and wonder whose side they are really on in this war--the U.S. or the terrorists. They use every opportunity to broadcast things that reflect badly on the U.S. I am beginning to think CBS is the U.S. version of Al Jazeera. Their hatred for President Bush to the extent that they would seriously damage their own country by seeking out and publishing such pictures as this is very, very troubling and makes one SUSPICIOUS of their ulterior motives.

what are you? A pinko commie bent on silencing freedom of the press and an advocate for censorship?

P.S. welcome to the boards.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
what are you? A pinko commie bent on silencing freedom of the press and an advocate for censorship?

P.S. welcome to the boards.

You know Adam's Apple may have a few legit points in there......

pinko?:

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
You know Adam's Apple may have a few legit points in there......

This one? There should be an investigation of this whole incident.

maybe you're right.

pinko?:

yup

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
This one? There should be an investigation of this whole incident.

maybe you're right.




yup

There will be an automatic investigation by the Convening Authority at the behest of the JAG Defense team or civilian defence attorney. This is to ensure the evidence is in fact admissible. I would stand many rounds at my local bar if it were found that CBS faked/paid/set up etc. Of course even if the CA or JAG found ironclad proof of shenanigans ABC/CBS/NBC/ALJAZZY and the ACLU would swear it was just another Military Cover Up.

 

[Adam's Apple]

I'm just saying that I would be more interested in hearing the story behind this particular story. All nations at war abuse POWs to get needed information. There's no new story in that. And as a people, Americans are not naive enough to believe that we don't get in our "licks" as well. I am sure much worse things than what those "posed" pictures revealed went on during WWII and Vietnam. So what is the real purpose of those pictures and how did CBS come to have them?