A Solution To The Middle East Conflict

[Phoenall]

Please explain how this has "solved" the problem.

I already did in great detail.

Those who move to America will have a stable secure peace, those who remain in Israel will not.

Rikurzhen, I didn't come here to fight with you, but unless you can say something interesting real soon, this will be my last post to you.

So what you want is the demise of Israel so the arab muslims can steal the land, and the Jews to be without a homeland once again. Just a round about way of achieving ISLAMONAZI supremacy over all the M.E. and the destruction of the nation of Israel.

Is this why you are loathe to have the Palestinians move to the US because they would then no longer be Palestinian refugees. Which would mean that UNRWA would no longer be needed, so the UN would wind it up and stop the money flowing into Palestine.

 

[teddyearp]

The Jews and Israelis want a land of their own. Where in the United States exactly do you propose this to be? And do you think that the United States will cede the land and title to the Jews and Israel, so that is will in fact be called Erets Israel? And if you come here for such an open and intelligent discourse, why are you so unmoving on your idea? If true discourse is what you want, why is your idea the only correct one?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jews and Israelis want a land of their own. Where in the United States exactly do you propose this to be? And do you think that the United States will cede the land and title to the Jews and Israel, so that is will in fact be called Erets Israel? And if you come here for such an open and intelligent discourse, why are you so unmoving on your idea? If true discourse is what you want, why is your idea the only correct one?

Why not? That is what you want the Palestinians to do.

 

[Typist2]

The Jews and Israelis want a land of their own.

Well, ok, that's true, agreed.

It's also true that lots of people want lots of things. Sometimes we have to decide which of the many things we want is the most important to us.

I'm proposing that the Jews of Israel can have a land of their own, or durable peace and security, but probably not both.

If an Israeli decides that having a state of their own is worth their children living in a state of permanent war for generations to come, then that is their decision to make, and I have nothing to offer those individuals except best wishes.

If an Israeli decides that securing peace and security for their family is more important to them than having a state, then America offers a way to obtain that peace and security for their family.

And do you think that the United States will cede the land and title to the Jews and Israel, so that is will in fact be called Erets Israel?

I seriously doubt this would be possible. Welcomed as fellow citizens yes, carving out an independent state within the United States, no.

There is nothing stopping any group of Jews from gathering together within America to have an intensely Jewish experience. Uniting American and Israeli Jews within one country could have it's benefits, have you thought about that?

And if you come here for such an open and intelligent discourse, why are you so unmoving on your idea? If true discourse is what you want, why is your idea the only correct one?

Some of the discourse here is intelligent and some is not, like on any forum. I apologize for losing patience with some of the less intelligent comments, when I should just politely ignore them instead. I'll work harder on that.

I have a point of view, as do you. I am expressing my point of view, as you are expressing yours. It's up to each Israeli to decide for themselves whether any of what we are discussing here is useful to them.

It doesn't matter whose idea it is. All that matters is the safety of Israeli Jews, and where that can be most quickly and reliably obtained.

To me, the founding of Israel was all about finding a sanctuary where Jews could be safe from centuries of violence and oppression. That's not working out very well at the current location, so it's natural to wonder if that goal might be better reached elsewhere.

 

[Moonglow]

Are you really John Kerry?

In any case, that is a version of Zionism I could get behind.

And the US is virtually empty with just 313,000,000 people in 3,719,000 sq miles. Only 84 people per square mile.

"A land without people, for a people without land."

I own more land than London squats upon...

 

[Moonglow]

The Jews and Israelis want a land of their own. Where in the United States exactly do you propose this to be? And do you think that the United States will cede the land and title to the Jews and Israel, so that is will in fact be called Erets Israel? And if you come here for such an open and intelligent discourse, why are you so unmoving on your idea? If true discourse is what you want, why is your idea the only correct one?

The whites in the US had to kill to get this land....i doubt they will cede any of it...

 

[Challenger]

...I own more land than London squats upon...

Wow, I'd be more impressed with that statement if the land respective land values bore any sort of comparison;

Average price per acre in Missouri= $1,278.00
Average price per acre in London= $18,455,250.00

So if I owned 1 acre of London, I could afford to buy 14,441 acres of Missouri, but why would I bother as there's nothing there apart from some nice scenery.

 

[Phoenall]

...I own more land than London squats upon...

Wow, I'd be more impressed with that statement if the land respective land values bore any sort of comparison;

Average price per acre in Missouri= $1,278.00
Average price per acre in London= $18,455,250.00

So if I owned 1 acre of London, I could afford to buy 14,441 acres of Missouri, but why would I bother as there's nothing there apart from some nice scenery.

All London has to offer is migrants gangs, violence, murders, congestion and the stench of decay. Most of the decent people have moved away from London and it is time the companies did the same, then you would see London for what it was

 

[Phoenall]

The Jews and Israelis want a land of their own.

Well, ok, that's true, agreed.

It's also true that lots of people want lots of things. Sometimes we have to decide which of the many things we want is the most important to us.

I'm proposing that the Jews of Israel can have a land of their own, or durable peace and security, but probably not both.

If an Israeli decides that having a state of their own is worth their children living in a state of permanent war for generations to come, then that is their decision to make, and I have nothing to offer those individuals except best wishes.

If an Israeli decides that securing peace and security for their family is more important to them than having a state, then America offers a way to obtain that peace and security for their family.

And do you think that the United States will cede the land and title to the Jews and Israel, so that is will in fact be called Erets Israel?

I seriously doubt this would be possible. Welcomed as fellow citizens yes, carving out an independent state within the United States, no.

There is nothing stopping any group of Jews from gathering together within America to have an intensely Jewish experience. Uniting American and Israeli Jews within one country could have it's benefits, have you thought about that?

And if you come here for such an open and intelligent discourse, why are you so unmoving on your idea? If true discourse is what you want, why is your idea the only correct one?

Some of the discourse here is intelligent and some is not, like on any forum. I apologize for losing patience with some of the less intelligent comments, when I should just politely ignore them instead. I'll work harder on that.

I have a point of view, as do you. I am expressing my point of view, as you are expressing yours. It's up to each Israeli to decide for themselves whether any of what we are discussing here is useful to them.

It doesn't matter whose idea it is. All that matters is the safety of Israeli Jews, and where that can be most quickly and reliably obtained.

To me, the founding of Israel was all about finding a sanctuary where Jews could be safe from centuries of violence and oppression. That's not working out very well at the current location, so it's natural to wonder if that goal might be better reached elsewhere.

The Jews have decided that it is better to surround their enemies with a wall so their children can live in reasonable safety than to give up what they have worked hard for. If you and the ISLAMONAZI's don't like this then that is your problem not Israels. If the ISLAMONAZIS want to shower Israel with rockets they have to be prepared to bury thousands of dead bodies in the process. They also need to be prepared to have their buildings destroyed and to go back 60 years to when they had nothing but mud huts and contaminated wells.

Then why propose that the Jews give up their NATIONAL HOME to become landless travellers again. Unless you see this as the only way to wipe out Israel and the Jewish presence in the M.E.

Who is to say that the same problems wont follow them and the arab muslims migrate to their new home and start the terrorist attacks all over again. Do you think the world would accept the Jews arming themselves like an army and pulverising the arab muslim in say Chicago or L.A. Better were they are and they can keep one section of ISLAMONAZI TERRORISTS occupied who could be bombing your children instead

 

[teddyearp]

[MENTION=50390]Typist2[/MENTION], I don't like to quote large posts. And I see that you do not think that the history of the Jews is relevant, you just want to push this idea of yours as the best and only one feasible.

However, the Jews do need and deserve a home of their own. They were largely driven out of their land hundred and hundreds of years ago. In the meantime, they did 'gather together in many other countries and have in intensely Jewish experience' and still do in some countries.

But historically, over those hundreds and hundreds of years they also suffered persecution and hate at the hands of those countries within which they 'gathered'. Even within the United States. And it still happens to this day.

I a part of me thinks that even the Balfour declaration could have actually been rooted in some anti-semitism, "Hey, let's encourage the Jews to move to this area and give them their own country so we can finally be rid of them" a hypothetical statement, not a real quote.

It just so happened that that area was an ancestral home for the Jews, and I think they should stay. It is way to late to unscramble the eggs and make them leave or as you put it, 'volunteer to go some where safer'.

But thanks for the thoughts.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hi Daniyel, thanks for replying to my post, your kind comments are appreciated.

May I ask, are you with the IDF? If yes, would you perhaps assist me in connecting with that community? I'd like to hear their input if possible.

well the Americans have all the rights to refuse,

My reasoning is as follows. We've allowed 10-12 million illegal immigrants to enter America, and most of them are poor, uneducated, speak foreign languages etc. If we can do that, it seems we could also accommodate 8 million educated capable Israelis, who would be in a position to make much more of a contribution to our country. Obtaining all that talent would be a big benefit to America, a real score for us.

I'm not sure if this even requires a big decision from America, as most Israelis could probably emigrate here under the current system if they so chose.

why won't we just send the Palestinians to the US? 4.4 million Palestinians

Please understand that I'm NOT offering any kind of insult to the Palestinians in saying this, but I doubt America would welcome them. You know, 9/11 and so on. They surely would not be welcomed in the same way that Israelis would be.

And it wouldn't solve the problem away. Even if every Palestinian left the Holy Land and came here, Israel would still face 200 million other Arabs, and Iran etc.

Israel was established to be ETHNIC sanctuary that does not have to rely on the good will of others. That's a fleeting guarantee. As in the 80s and 90s when MILLIONS of Russian Jews were being constrained by the Communist regime there. The concept wouldn't fly as every application for asylum would be subject to the vaguarities of American Politics.

And giving the world-wide Jewish community PREFERENTIAL access to US immigration rights would create a HOSTILE attitude that Jews don't need to ignite. Every Jew hater in America would be rushing for pitchfolks to stop the favoritism that your plan requires.

No Thanks.. Better plan is to conscript the Jordanians, the Egyptians, and the Lebanese to STOP IGNORING the palestinians and become guarantors and patrons of their new state. Right now -- all 3 of them plus others in the Arab League want nothing to do with a Palestinian state run by Muslim Brotherhood zealots. .

 

[Rehmani]

Greetings All,

Thank you for taking the time to consider my remarks.

This article proposes that the Mideast conflict between Israel and Palestine is approaching a historic fork in the road.

Down one road lies a dramatic success in which almost all the goals of all the parties are met in an irrevocable permanent manner. Down the other road lies a dramatic failure of biblical proportions. Most reading this will live to see which road is taken.

The following is a proposal which offers the parties an opportunity to take the road of peace by resolving the MidEast conflict in a decisive, permanent and timely manner.

To prepare ourselves for such a wonderful future, we must first pay the price of saying goodbye to a tragic past.



Saying Goodbye To The Past

Before we consider the solution offered below, it's important for us to be resolutely clear about what has been tried already and proven beyond not to work. As the saying goes, repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of stupidity.

Any benefit a reader might receive from this article will necessarily be built upon their willingness to face a well documented fact that nothing which has been tried so far over the last six decades has succeeded in resolving the MidEast conflict.

Not war or threats of war, not negotiation, not a finger pointing blame game, not analysis and talk, not experts, not American mediation, not the management of captive populations, not economic development, not clever technology, not waiting and hoping things will somehow get better.

None of it. None of it has worked.

Despite all these endlessly repeated efforts exerted over such a long period of time by so many so capable people, Israelis still don't have the peace and security they yearn for, and the Palestinians still don't have the freedom and land they so desperately desire. Both parties may instead be careening ever closer towards an uncontrollable descent in to chaos.

If a reader can squarely face the failure of all that has come before, if they can surrender the notion that repeating the same repetitive patterns over and over will somehow bring different and better results, that reader will then be on the edge of seeing a permanent peace which can satisfy the core demands of all parties to the conflict.



The Path To A Real And Permanent Peace

Like all peoples, the Israelis long for a durable peace, security and freedom, a safe place to raise their children and build a prosperous future. The whole point of establishing the state of Israel was to secure these worthy goals.

The bad news is that such a place will never exist for Jews in the Middle East. Three major wars, multiple uprising, waves of terrorist attacks, and six decades of never ending insecurity, hostility and death prove this beyond all doubt. So much blood has been spilled, so much hatred invoked, over such a period of time, that there is now no chance of a real peace within the lifetimes of anyone currently living.

In fact, the stable secure peace that Israelis seek may not exist for anyone in the entire Middle East for a century to come, as the Arab world is not only in conflict with Israel, but with itself.

How will Israel create a true lasting peace with it's neighbors if those countries should dissolve in to religious, political and economic chaos, a possibility which is looking increasingly likely? Israel should not confuse a history of defeating it's neighbor's strengths with an ability to survive their very real weaknesses.

The path to a permanent peace will be built upon a realistic recognition that the tragedy of Zionism is that it's a very noble goal, married to a very bad plan. A great race, led to exactly the wrong place. A very understandable mistake, made by brilliant and brave people, with a potentially catastrophic outcome.

The good news is that there is an excellent solution available which could accomplish the most fundamental goals of Zionism in a breathtakingly short period of time.

The good news is that the safest, most secure and prosperous place on Earth would welcome the people of Israel with open arms.

The good news is that the Jewish people can find everything they've been seeking for centuries in the United States.



What Is The Bottom Line?

Yes, ok, I know, I'm about to lose a great many of our Israeli friends. Ok, I hear you, leaving the Holy Land will definitely not be a welcome proposal for many.

But before you go, perhaps you might help us understand....

What is most important to you?

- An ever threatened Jewish state eternally in conflict with it's crumbling neighbors?

- Or the best peace, security and prosperity available on the planet Earth for your children?

What will your grandchildren inherit from you? What is it that you want most for your descendants? What is your bottom line?



Welcome To America!

The people of the United States would welcome the ingenius Jews of Israel as fellow citizens. America has after all been Israel's best friend since the beginning.

The American West is full of empty federal land which can be shared with the Israeli people, who would undoubtably work miracles with it.

Anti-semitism is minimal in the United States, and there are already about as many Jews in the United States as there are in Israel.

This prosperous Jewish population of the United States would rush to assist the new immigrants, just as they have faithfully supported the state of Israel.

The billions of dollars currently spent each year on defending Israel can be reinvested in the transition and in improving the lives of Israelis of limited means.

The children of Israel would no longer be required to become soldiers. This benefit alone should be enough, shouldn't it?

The people of Israel would be once and for all liberated from corrupt fascist dictatorships, religious fanatics, murderous neighbors, incoming rockets, tunneling militants, the disrespect of much of the world community, and a long history of chronic discrimination, oppression, abuse and slaughter.

The people of Israel would instead become welcome members of the world's oldest democracy, and citizens of the most prosperous and secure nation on Earth.

Come to America Israel, there is no faster, more reliable and durable way to secure the fundamental goals of Zionism.

Giving up the ancient dream of Israel will be a painful price for many without question. Peace will not come for free. We can't ignore that a true sacrifice is required.

But in return for that significant sacrifice Israelis would receive the assurance that their children will not perish in the firestorm which must inevitably envelope the Middle East sooner or later if this conflict is not resolved.

This peace does not require war, death and suffering to achieve. This peace does not require danger or risk. This peace does not require endlessly unsuccessful negotiations with former and current terrorists. This peace does not require trust in pieces of paper, or the promises of those who seek Israel's extermination. This peace does not make the security of Jews dependent on what their enemies do or don't do now or in the future.

This peace does not require waiting. Why should Israelis wait even more generations for the Palestinians to give them peace, when they can grasp the peace they seek all by themselves right now?

Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America.



The Price Of Failure

We should recall that population-wise Israel is smaller than New York City. While the state of Israel contains some of the world's most capable people, eight million citizens still makes for a tiny country.

To complicate matters further, Arabs are outproducing Jews within Israel. This means that at some point Israelis will face a lose/lose choice between surrendering their Jewish state, or surrendering their democracy. Both of these outcomes would destroy the soul of Israel.

Israel has already lost the public relations war in Europe and most other parts of the world, and is steadily losing ground in United States as well. Whether this is just and fair and right does not matter. It simply does not matter. What matters is that the Palestinians are winning the decisive public relationship battle. The same underdog sympathy which was crucial to the establishment of Israel is now being aimed at the Palestinians.

And that means the people of Israel will be ever more isolated and alone within the world community as we dive deeper in to an ever more globalized 21st century. If the conflict continues endlessly, sooner or later Israel will have no friends anywhere, and 8 million Jews will fight for their survival against 200 million Arabs completely on their own. This is what losing the public relations battle inevitably entails.

We might also recall that Israel's defenders have to win every single time, forever. But Israel's enemies only have to win once, just once.

Each year that passes without a resolution to the MidEast conflict is like another turn of the pistol barrel in a game of Russian roulette. While Israel looks invulnerable now, change is the one thing we can always count on, and sooner or later the chamber will contain a bullet.

Even the ancient story of Israel teaches us that whatever the ever brave and brilliant Jews construct, the changing tides of history can quickly sweep away. It's true for all of us.

The 21st century is going to be an era of unprecedented carnage, just as previous centuries have been. Technology is racing forward at an ever accelerating rate which further empowers everybody, including the bad guys. There is little chance the great powers can do more than slow the spread of weapons of mass destruction, given that they can't even liberate themselves from those weapons.

Sooner or later the murderous bad guys will get lucky and figure out how to deploy weapons of mass destruction within the tiny country of Israel, and surely other countries as well.

One bad day, one miscalculation, one unlucky break, one failure one time, one push of a button, that's all it would take to push Israel in to chaos. Israel could be gone in a day, an hour, in the time it takes to read this article. Welcome to the 21st century.

This is an unthinkable future, but it is coming nonetheless. The Iron Dome will not stop it from coming. The IDF can not win every single battle, forever. The Israelis can not out smart everybody, always. Nobody overcomes every single challenge from now until the end of time.

I beg our Israeli friends not to confuse their amazing accomplishments of the past with an ability to manage any future which might come. Israel has too many enemies. It is too small to survive the emerging mass destruction era of the 21st century. This reality must be faced with humility if the people of Israel are to be spared a Second Holocaust. All of us across the world must surrender our hubris if we are to save our kids.

While this is a grim tale indeed, all the epic suffering coming to the Middle East can be avoided. There is an abundance of good news here for anyone who wants peace, and is willing to act decisively to achieve it.

The people of Israel can choose their children's future over an ancient Zionist dream. If they do, all the peace, security and prosperity they so desire and deserve can be theirs. Not maybe someday in future generations, but for sure, today.

Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America. You'll never find in Israel what is already waiting for you here in America right now.

Greeting to you,

First I admire your article, second if you read some of my post have similar message for Israelis. I would like to add with your message to Israelis that the Israelis or Jews destroy the long lasting peace,harmony,trust and brotherhood with Muslim consist over 900 years which is the great lose than the any lose we can think and this gape will increase if Jews elders don't intervene and repaint with the Muslim and with the world.

 

[Daniyel]

...

Greeting to you,

First I admire your article, second if you read some of my post have similar message for Israelis. I would like to add with your message to Israelis that the Israelis or Jews destroy the long lasting peace,harmony,trust and brotherhood with Muslim consist over 900 years which is the great lose than the any lose we can think and this gape will increase if Jews elders don't intervene and repaint with the Muslim and with the world.

Like in Syria? Maybe the long lasting peace in Iraq? or the same brotherhood in Egypt? you want other examples? because 900 years of consisting bloodshed by Arabs hostility to the Jews seems to be the mutual harmony that bring peace between Arabs, like Hamas and Fatah, Hezbullah and Hamas, ISIS and Christian Arabs..everything shrinks when you find the harmony and peaceful hobby of killing Jews.
It is all your fault, everywhere there's Arabs, there's Islam, everywhere there's Islam there is terrible violence, terror, and rivers of infidels blood.

 

[SAYIT]

Hi Daniyel, thanks for replying to my post, your kind comments are appreciated.

May I ask, are you with the IDF? If yes, would you perhaps assist me in connecting with that community? I'd like to hear their input if possible.

well the Americans have all the rights to refuse,

My reasoning is as follows. We've allowed 10-12 million illegal immigrants to enter America, and most of them are poor, uneducated, speak foreign languages etc. If we can do that, it seems we could also accommodate 8 million educated capable Israelis, who would be in a position to make much more of a contribution to our country. Obtaining all that talent would be a big benefit to America, a real score for us.

I'm not sure if this even requires a big decision from America, as most Israelis could probably emigrate here under the current system if they so chose.

why won't we just send the Palestinians to the US? 4.4 million Palestinians

Please understand that I'm NOT offering any kind of insult to the Palestinians in saying this, but I doubt America would welcome them. You know, 9/11 and so on. They surely would not be welcomed in the same way that Israelis would be.

And it wouldn't solve the problem away. Even if every Palestinian left the Holy Land and came here, Israel would still face 200 million other Arabs, and Iran etc.

Various Arab leaders have made clear that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the root cause of all their troubles. With the Palestinians gone wouldn't that solve all their troubles?

 

[SAYIT]

I can give you some links.

Thanks! As you can see, I have much to learn.

Don't hang many hopes, but I think you could learn more by talking to the Israeli officials.

Truthfully, I don't have great hopes either, but this is what I know how to do so I'm doing it. I agree I can learn by talking with any Israeli, so I'm working on that as well.



You are most likely right. However, I perceive Israelis to be very intelligent clear eyed realists, especially about security, and I sincerely believe what I've suggested is the only plan which can guarantee the security of Mideast Jews.



I will read up on this, thanks.



To me, the question boils down to this. What are Israelis most connected to? The state of Israel? Or their own children? Defending Israel means putting one's children at risk. Moving to America doesn't. Why put one's children at risk defending Israel if even better security can be easily obtained elsewhere? It doesn't make sense to me.

As I understand it, the whole point of the state of Israel is to protect the Jewish people. It seems a great many people have become so distracted by a particular chosen means (Israel) that they've forgotten all about the desired end (security).

the Palestinian conflict is nothing compared to the nuclear power Iran attempt to gain, ISIS is planning, Hezbullah in Lebanon is planning, and God knows what else.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. The problem I see for the IDF is that the accelerating advance of technology gives advantage to attackers and those with nothing to lose. The breathtaking speed and power of future conflicts means a momentary loss of advantage can quickly result in a permanent disaster. There is no room for error, a principle Israelis will be well aware of. This will be increasingly true for all countries, but especially for tiny countries.

and if you think 8 million illegal aliens is a problem, think about 300,000,000 radical Muslims in the middle east only.

From an American point of view 8 million Jews, however capable they indeed are, can not protect America from whatever mass chaos may explode in the Middle East. We can protect you by offering you a way out of there, but you are too small to protect us.

However, importing Israeli genius in to America would be a great bonanza for us, imho. You are far more useful to us here than you can ever be there.

In the past I've had neighbors with relentlessly barking dogs, which tends to really piss me off. Because I couldn't afford to move, I had to engage in years of patient neighbor diplomacy which was only somewhat effective. Despite my best efforts, I still had to eat a lot of barking.

Why would I keep bothering with this pain in the butt if I won the lottery?

Ever heard the term "apples and oranges?"

 

[BillyP]

Rename Jordan into Palestine and get some high ranking carpet kisser to declare it Allah's promised land for Palestinians and give them title to the land... and half of Saudi Arabia's money. Problem solved.

 

[GreenBean]

Rename Jordan into Palestine and get some high ranking carpet kisser to declare it Allah's promised land for Palestinians and give them title to the land... and half of Saudi Arabia's money. Problem solved.

Perhaps you should send your plan to Benjamin Netanyahu and John Kerry - just tell them you're an internet faggot who's working on his GED ,thats of course when you're not collecting used pop bottles for the nickle back - I'll bet they'll be glad to listen

 

[BillyP]

Rename Jordan into Palestine and get some high ranking carpet kisser to declare it Allah's promised land for Palestinians and give them title to the land... and half of Saudi Arabia's money. Problem solved.

Perhaps you should send your plan to Benjamin Netanyahu and John Kerry - just tell them you're an internet faggot who's working on his GED ,thats of course when you're not collecting used pop bottles for the nickle back - I'll bet they'll be glad to listen

Still thinking about bonesmuggling I see.

Ya, my idea is shit, because bringing Israel to some spot in the desert here that nobody ever wanted will solve the problem.

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEvgtBfMEnk]Justice Requires an End to Israeli Jewish Supremacy Over Palestinians - Ali Abunimah on RAI (5/5) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[docmauser1]

Justice Requires an End to Israeli Jewish Supremacy Over Palestinians - Ali Abunimah on RAI (5/5)

A supremacist, calling others supremasists. Funny.