A Necessity, NOT A Luxury

[Ame®icano]

[...]

For broken bones, there used to be bonesetters. Now, it costs $4,000 to treat a broken arm. Even still, that's cheaper than insurance. I have no insurance. I could probably break an arm every year and save money by opting out of insurance.

[...]

What you're suggesting makes sense -- provided you never have a major medical expense.

E.g., I resented paying the monthly fee for GHI & Blue Shield coverage back in 1997. But when a stomach ache turned out to be colon cancer it ended up costing $117,000 for surgery, etc.

I got away with a $1,200 co-payment. If I didn't have the insurance I would have ended up either paying that big bill or losing my house.

In 2003 I turned up with prostate cancer. There went another $92,000 treatment (surgery & radiation), but by then I was on Medicare.

Now I'm dealing with some kind of lumbar agony which as yet is undiagnosed. But I've already started racking up specialist bills and I'm scheduled for an MRI next week (God bless Medicare). So what you're really talking about is a big financial risk which I am very glad I didn't take.

Those monthly insurance payments hurt -- but all it takes is one big medical problem to financially ruin you if you don't have the insurance. So until the U.S. adopts universal federal health care the medical industry and the insurance companies are calling the shots.

So then, what happens when the breadwinner is the one that gets sick, and, since he is to sick to work, can't pay the mortgage and other bills?

Do you also support an income while you are sick? I mean, its not fair if you lose your house when you are sick, is it?

Mark

First, don't buy something you can't really afford. Second, if you do, have a plan B such as second income, life insurance etc.

I doubt most breadwinners can afford to be off work for any length of time. Regardless of any plan.

Mark

Why not? If someone is able to start the family and have kids, then should be able to support them.

 

[dblack]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

They same way they're not part of the car care industry. You don't see the distinction?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

They same way they're not part of the car care industry. You don't see the distinction?

Car care industry? What? Health care insurance ( medical insurance ) is a part of the health care industry. Are you saying that doctors, hospitals, labs, clinics, etc. do not bill through insurance companies? If they are not a part of the health care industry, why are we paying for health insurance? Please explain. And, how did cars get into this conversation?

 

[boedicca]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

 

[dblack]

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

They same way they're not part of the car care industry. You don't see the distinction?

Car care industry? What? Health care insurance ( medical insurance ) is a part of the health care industry. Are you saying that doctors, hospitals, labs, clinics, etc. do not bill through insurance companies? If they are not a part of the health care industry, why are we paying for health insurance? Please explain. And, how did cars get into this conversation?

Well, would you consider auto insurance to be "part of automobile industry"?

Health insurance isn't the only way, or even a good way, to pay for health care. It's that unquestioned assumption that's leading us into so much bad policy.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this. Why do we even call it health care insurance if it has nothing to do with health care? Why don't we call it rainy day insurance? Or, any other descriptive?

 

[boedicca]

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this. Why do we even call it health care insurance if it has nothing to do with health care? Why don't we call it rainy day insurance? Or, any other descriptive?

Have you ever stopped to consider why Insurance Companies determine what the price of your annual check up instead of that transaction being decided by you and your doctor?

 

[Sonny Clark]

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

They same way they're not part of the car care industry. You don't see the distinction?

Car care industry? What? Health care insurance ( medical insurance ) is a part of the health care industry. Are you saying that doctors, hospitals, labs, clinics, etc. do not bill through insurance companies? If they are not a part of the health care industry, why are we paying for health insurance? Please explain. And, how did cars get into this conversation?

Well, would you consider auto insurance to be "part of automobile industry"?

Health insurance isn't the only way, or even a good way, to pay for health care. It's that unquestioned assumption that's leading us into so much bad policy.

Sure. Most states require drivers to have auto insurance. It's all part of the automotive industry. They don't call it automotive insurance because they're insuring your computer or TV.

 

[dblack]

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this.

It's such an important distinction because of what I said in the earlier post. Insurance isn't the only way to pay for health care. When comes to routine doctor visits and moderate illnesses, it's a spectacularly bad way.

 

[boedicca]

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

They same way they're not part of the car care industry. You don't see the distinction?

Car care industry? What? Health care insurance ( medical insurance ) is a part of the health care industry. Are you saying that doctors, hospitals, labs, clinics, etc. do not bill through insurance companies? If they are not a part of the health care industry, why are we paying for health insurance? Please explain. And, how did cars get into this conversation?

Well, would you consider auto insurance to be "part of automobile industry"?

Health insurance isn't the only way, or even a good way, to pay for health care. It's that unquestioned assumption that's leading us into so much bad policy.

Sure. Most states require drivers to have auto insurance. It's all part of the automotive industry. They don't call it automotive insurance because they're insuring your computer or TV.

Oh for Pity's Sake. Just because Big Government Cronies lobby the government to pass laws and regulations so that they can rent seek off of the public doesn't mean that is a natural part of a properly functioning market. Jeebus F-Crisco - learn something about history and economics.

 

[Sonny Clark]

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this. Why do we even call it health care insurance if it has nothing to do with health care? Why don't we call it rainy day insurance? Or, any other descriptive?

Have you ever stopped to consider why Insurance Companies determine what the price of your annual check up instead of that transaction being decided by you and your doctor?

Well, you're getting off topic now. We are not talking about why insurance companies charge what they charge. Charges are another conversation. The conversation is whether or not health care insurance is a part of the health care industry, and not what they charge or pay for certain items. I'm saying that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry, and you're say that they're not. I'll stick by my believe that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry.

 

[boedicca]

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this.

It's such an important distinction because of what I said in the earlier post. Insurance isn't the only way to pay for health care. When comes to routine doctor visits and moderate illnesses, it's a spectacularly bad way.

I just loved how the Feds made it impossible to use Flexible Health Spending Account to pay for over the counter medications. This meant that middle class parents who wanted to use Their Own Money to pay for cold medicine for their kids had to go to the doctor and get a prescription for the over the counter cold medicine.

How on earth that reduces heatlh care costs eludes me. Perhaps Sonny Clabberhead can 'splain it.

 

[dblack]

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this. Why do we even call it health care insurance if it has nothing to do with health care? Why don't we call it rainy day insurance? Or, any other descriptive?

Have you ever stopped to consider why Insurance Companies determine what the price of your annual check up instead of that transaction being decided by you and your doctor?

Well, you're getting off topic now. We are not talking about why insurance companies charge what they charge. Charges are another conversation. The conversation is whether or not health care insurance is a part of the health care industry, and not what they charge or pay for certain items. I'm saying that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry, and you're say that they're not. I'll stick by my believe that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry.

You can 'consider' it whatever you want. But insurance is a dumb model for financing regular expenses, of any sort. Your conflation of the two is dangerous because it leads to the idiotic assumption that regulating the insurance industry will fix the broken health care market. When, in fact, that's exactly what created most of the problems in the first place.

 

[Sonny Clark]

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this.

It's such an important distinction because of what I said in the earlier post. Insurance isn't the only way to pay for health care. When comes to routine doctor visits and moderate illnesses, it's a spectacularly bad way.

Well, of course it's not the only way to pay for a medical related bill. That's just common sense. And, I have never ever said otherwise, nor implied otherwise. Sure, if one has enough money, they can pay cash, or pay in installments. And, some people do. I have never said anything about health care insurance being the only means to pay for health care. How did that even get into this conversation?

 

[dblack]

Well, of course it's not the only way to pay for a medical related bill. That's just common sense. And, I have never ever said otherwise, nor implied otherwise. Sure, if one has enough money, they can pay cash, or pay in installments. And, some people do. I have never said anything about health care insurance being the only means to pay for health care. How did that even get into this conversation?

I'll show you how. Just answer this question: What do you think should be done about the health care problem?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this.

It's such an important distinction because of what I said in the earlier post. Insurance isn't the only way to pay for health care. When comes to routine doctor visits and moderate illnesses, it's a spectacularly bad way.

I just loved how the Feds made it impossible to use Flexible Health Spending Account to pay for over the counter medications. This meant that middle class parents who wanted to use Their Own Money to pay for cold medicine for their kids had to go to the doctor and get a prescription for the over the counter cold medicine.

How on earth that reduces heatlh care costs eludes me. Perhaps Sonny Clabberhead can 'splain it.

Sure, the whole health care industry is a racket, a scam, and nothing more than a money machine. Everyone knows that. That's common knowledge and understood. And, why start the childish silly remarks? Can't you discuss issues in an a civil and adult manner? I'm not Sonny Clabberhead. Try to be civil and mature, please. there's no need to get childish and start school yard talk.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Well, of course it's not the only way to pay for a medical related bill. That's just common sense. And, I have never ever said otherwise, nor implied otherwise. Sure, if one has enough money, they can pay cash, or pay in installments. And, some people do. I have never said anything about health care insurance being the only means to pay for health care. How did that even get into this conversation?

I'll show you how. Just answer this question: What do you think should be done about the health care problem?

Health care problems, or do you mean health care insurance problems? Please narrow that question down for me. Health care problems could be anything from cancer to open heart surgery.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this. Why do we even call it health care insurance if it has nothing to do with health care? Why don't we call it rainy day insurance? Or, any other descriptive?

Have you ever stopped to consider why Insurance Companies determine what the price of your annual check up instead of that transaction being decided by you and your doctor?

Well, you're getting off topic now. We are not talking about why insurance companies charge what they charge. Charges are another conversation. The conversation is whether or not health care insurance is a part of the health care industry, and not what they charge or pay for certain items. I'm saying that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry, and you're say that they're not. I'll stick by my believe that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry.

You can 'consider' it whatever you want. But insurance is a dumb model for financing regular expenses, of any sort. Your conflation of the two is dangerous because it leads to the idiotic assumption that regulating the insurance industry will fix the broken health care market. When, in fact, that's exactly what created most of the problems in the first place.

FYI - I have never ever said anything about regulating insurance companies. Where did you get that from? I have never ever said anything about financing regular expenses. Where did that come from? I have never ever said anything about regulating anything. Are you sure that you're addressing the right person here? You're obviously mixing me up with someone else. I have never ever said those things, nor implied them.

 

[dblack]

Insurance is INSURANCE, and merely a way to pay for health care via a third party at a higher than market rate (because there has to be some way for them to profit).

It's quite possible to acquire health care without any insurance whatsoever. Most people would actually be better off paying cash for basic care and then paying a small premium for a catastrophic care policy. Mixing "prepaid health services" with real insurance is one of the reasons we have the mess we do today.

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this. Why do we even call it health care insurance if it has nothing to do with health care? Why don't we call it rainy day insurance? Or, any other descriptive?

Have you ever stopped to consider why Insurance Companies determine what the price of your annual check up instead of that transaction being decided by you and your doctor?

Well, you're getting off topic now. We are not talking about why insurance companies charge what they charge. Charges are another conversation. The conversation is whether or not health care insurance is a part of the health care industry, and not what they charge or pay for certain items. I'm saying that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry, and you're say that they're not. I'll stick by my believe that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry.

You can 'consider' it whatever you want. But insurance is a dumb model for financing regular expenses, of any sort. Your conflation of the two is dangerous because it leads to the idiotic assumption that regulating the insurance industry will fix the broken health care market. When, in fact, that's exactly what created most of the problems in the first place.

FYI - I have never ever said anything about regulating insurance companies. Where did you get that from? I have never ever said anything about financing regular expenses. Where did that come from? I have never ever said anything about regulating anything. Are you sure that you're addressing the right person here? You're obviously mixing me up with someone else. I have never ever said those things, nor implied them.

Alright. So what is your position? What do you think the problem is? How would you fix it?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Sure, I agree, insurance is insurance, nothing mysterious or new about that. But, I fail to see how anyone can leave health insurance out of the health care industry. They play a major role in the health care industry. They determine what the doctors will get paid, and what you'll pay that they don't pay. That's why we have co-pays, deductibles, and premiums. Ask any doctor if they consider health care insurance as a part of the industry. I honestly don't follow your reasoning on this. Why do we even call it health care insurance if it has nothing to do with health care? Why don't we call it rainy day insurance? Or, any other descriptive?

Have you ever stopped to consider why Insurance Companies determine what the price of your annual check up instead of that transaction being decided by you and your doctor?

Well, you're getting off topic now. We are not talking about why insurance companies charge what they charge. Charges are another conversation. The conversation is whether or not health care insurance is a part of the health care industry, and not what they charge or pay for certain items. I'm saying that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry, and you're say that they're not. I'll stick by my believe that health care insurance is very much a part of the health care industry.

You can 'consider' it whatever you want. But insurance is a dumb model for financing regular expenses, of any sort. Your conflation of the two is dangerous because it leads to the idiotic assumption that regulating the insurance industry will fix the broken health care market. When, in fact, that's exactly what created most of the problems in the first place.

FYI - I have never ever said anything about regulating insurance companies. Where did you get that from? I have never ever said anything about financing regular expenses. Where did that come from? I have never ever said anything about regulating anything. Are you sure that you're addressing the right person here? You're obviously mixing me up with someone else. I have never ever said those things, nor implied them.

Alright. So what is your position? What do you think the problem is? How would you fix it?

My position is exactly as I stated in the root post. The health care industry is a money machine, a legalized scam, a price gouging racket, and is pricing themselves way above what the average person can afford. It is actually bankrupting many people. The problem is one of over-charges, duplicate charges, exaggerated services, Medicare and Medicaid fraud and corruption, and price fixing. How would I fix it? I would ask Congress to make all in the health care profession to justify charges. And, if they can't legally do that, then at least they could expose the scam to the public by naming names, naming corporations, naming companies, naming hospitals, naming doctors, and naming pharmaceuticals. I would ask Congress to do whatever to shame those that are bankrupting this nation. Health care cost has gotten totally out of hand. No one can justify $1,800.00 a day for a tiny filthy hospital room. No one can justify charging $5.00 for a single aspirin. No one can justify $20.00 for a breakfast consisting of powdered eggs and wheat toast.

We have the highest cost and poorest health care among industrialized nations. That data is available online. Americans spend more on health care than almost any other country. The data is readily available online. Americans are going bankrupt and getting poorer because of the rising cost of proper health care. It's gotten so bad, that even Mr. Obama attempted to fix it. But, as we all know now, his attempt failed big time. I say make those in the health care industry justify cost and charges. Shame them if necessary. Bring attention to them by exposing them publicly.