9 out of 10 Americans completely wrong

[numan]

You keep running down the same rathole that seems to think that a problem that can be resolved at an individual level can be resolved the same way for a population as a whole.

You are correct -- that is a logical fallacy.

It is a fallacy to which idolaters of individualism are particularly prone.
.

 

[AmazonTania]

We have to stop thinking like this.

A guy who comes into a company and gets a top slot in it, because he happens to belong to the same fraternity has the rest of the "old boys" SHOULD NOT be entitled to 300% more in pay then someone actually doing the work to make the profit.

That's your opinion.

Add in that most corporations DEPEND on the taxes we pay to keep and maintain their enterprise.

The taxes corporations pay protects the private property rights of the corporations who sell goods and services. At the same time, the taxes you pay protects your private property rights of the goods and services you choose to buy. This is not mutually exclusive to only one particular group simply because you believe you have an entitlement problem.

There has to be some parity in this system.

If there is not..it will definitely collapse.

You are not entitled to another person's labor. No matter how much it bothers you. Corporations owe you nothing.

 

[KissMy]

There is actually an easy why for anyone (even the deadbeats in this forum) can obtain Top 1% status. It's very simple actually.

Yeah, it's so darn simple that the US has the lowest income mobility rate in the western world. Hard work only gets you taxed more. You have to start out with money so you can avoid taxes on your income. You simpletons lost my vote when you started taxing work & small business harder than rich investment dividends. It's simple, cut tax on workers & small business or continue losing elections. Close the big corporate tax loopholes.

 

[tjvh]

9 Out Of 10 Americans Are Completely Wrong About This Mind-Blowing Fact - YouTube

Check out this video. What we believe is reality in wealth distribution isn't even close. The top 1% own 40% of the nations wealth while the bottom 80% own 7% of our nations wealth. 7%!

I don't understand how anyone can defend this.

I guess you should have studied harder in school... But alas, it was not to be.

 

[Sallow]

We have to stop thinking like this.

A guy who comes into a company and gets a top slot in it, because he happens to belong to the same fraternity has the rest of the "old boys" SHOULD NOT be entitled to 300% more in pay then someone actually doing the work to make the profit.

Add in that most corporations DEPEND on the taxes we pay to keep and maintain their enterprise.

There has to be some parity in this system.

If there is not..it will definitely collapse.

So if I want to make my buddy a rich Executive in my company I should be stopped by the federal government? WOW What's next forcing me to hire Obama's buddies as rich Executives in my company? Or should we just have a law that makes companies pay everyone the same wage?

Here's one for you... If we all make the exact same paycheck what will the poverty rate be? 100%?

Check out history, ace.

When the gulf between rich and poor becomes to wide? The society collapses.

Almost every time.

 

[Sallow]

9 Out Of 10 Americans Are Completely Wrong About This Mind-Blowing Fact - YouTube

Check out this video. What we believe is reality in wealth distribution isn't even close. The top 1% own 40% of the nations wealth while the bottom 80% own 7% of our nations wealth. 7%!

I don't understand how anyone can defend this.

I guess you should have studied harder in school... But alas, it was not to be.

Academic success does not always assure financial success, especially if you come from a poor family.

Being born to a rich family? Almost always assures financial success.

That's a problem.

 

[rightwinger]

Is there a law that makes you work for this jerk? Why can't you work for someone else? Why can't you work for "yourself?"

You keep running down the same rathole that seems to think that a problem that can be resolved at an individual level can be resolved the same way for a population as a whole

Families are a rat hole? Individual responsibility is a rat hole?

You have it backwards. Solutions that work for individuals can't be scaled up to federal programs that are administrated in DC by replacing working solutions with checks, ebt cards, and free phones. That's not solving the problem that's punting the problem by throwing stale bread over the castle walls.

In a nutshell, an individual can increase his own ability to compete against the rest of the population. The entire population cannot obtain better jobs. The issue is with the entire class of working Americans and their stagnant wealth not the ability of a single individual

 

[Againsheila]

I think the issue is that some folks believe that everyone should have their own house, a full fridge, all the education they want, all the money for healthcare they need, spare no expense. Oh yeah and they should not have to earn any of it and we should "force" people to fund their "largesse." Don't get me wrong I'm all for voluntary assistance and doing good for people but I fail to see how making someone's life "easy" is helping them. Nah, that's crippling them for life.

No, the issue here is that 20% of our people own 83% of our wealth. You can't convince me that 80% of our people aren't working.

So if I have a twenty in my pocket and you have a nothing in your pocket that means I have all of our wealth so someone should come to my house and cut it in half and give it to you then the wealth will be evenly distributed. Problem solved right?

Nope. My answer to that is I'll just stop working hard enough to have that extra twenty in my pocket, we'll get the money from some other rich guy who has not figured out just how evil he is to be earning more than minimum wage in this country.

Here's a better analogy. We both work a 40 hour week. You get a paycheck of $10,000,000 and I get a paycheck of $10,000. We both work for the same company. Do you really believe you deserve 1000 times more money than me, regardless of our jobs?

 

[rightwinger]

We have to stop thinking like this.

A guy who comes into a company and gets a top slot in it, because he happens to belong to the same fraternity has the rest of the "old boys" SHOULD NOT be entitled to 300% more in pay then someone actually doing the work to make the profit.

Add in that most corporations DEPEND on the taxes we pay to keep and maintain their enterprise.

There has to be some parity in this system.

If there is not..it will definitely collapse.

So if I want to make my buddy a rich Executive in my company I should be stopped by the federal government? WOW What's next forcing me to hire Obama's buddies as rich Executives in my company? Or should we just have a law that makes companies pay everyone the same wage?

Here's one for you... If we all make the exact same paycheck what will the poverty rate be? 100%?

Check out history, ace.

When the gulf between rich and poor becomes to wide? The society collapses.

Almost every time.

Let them eat cake

 

[tjvh]

9 Out Of 10 Americans Are Completely Wrong About This Mind-Blowing Fact - YouTube

Check out this video. What we believe is reality in wealth distribution isn't even close. The top 1% own 40% of the nations wealth while the bottom 80% own 7% of our nations wealth. 7%!

I don't understand how anyone can defend this.

I guess you should have studied harder in school... But alas, it was not to be.

Academic success does not always assure financial success, especially if you come from a poor family.

Being born to a rich family? Almost always assures financial success.

That's a problem.

So you advocate that rich people not be allowed to pass their wealth onto their children? Whatever you say comrade.

 

[tjvh]

So if I want to make my buddy a rich Executive in my company I should be stopped by the federal government? WOW What's next forcing me to hire Obama's buddies as rich Executives in my company? Or should we just have a law that makes companies pay everyone the same wage?

Here's one for you... If we all make the exact same paycheck what will the poverty rate be? 100%?

Check out history, ace.

When the gulf between rich and poor becomes to wide? The society collapses.

Almost every time.

Let them eat cake

And your solution is what? Making sure people aren't allowed to succeed too much. Another commie who doesn't think he should have to put forth an effort.

 

[Againsheila]

KG shouldn't call you a "welfare queen".
But why do think it is the states responsibility (tax payer) to support your son?
I didn't cause his autism. I'm not the fault of his condition. Why do you think it is my responsibility to provide for him?

Because as a civilized society we take care of our disabled and elderly. If you want to go back to primitive times, we can take him into the woods and leave him to die on his own, but today, we'd end up in jail for that. My husband has parkinson's, I have arthritis and other problems and we can't continue to handle an adult that disabled. He ripped out several walls in our home. Did you expect us to just let him kill us? He still would have ended up being taken care of by the state, at your expense. And of course, if we took him out into the woods, the state would have us institutionalized and you'd be paying for us instead. What exactly was my other choice? I suppose I could have aborted him, if I'd known he was going to have autism, but I didn't. I suppose I could have been a worse mother and let him wander away and drown as a child in a nearby river as happened to another autistic boy near here. I really don't understand what you want me to do here, please explain it.

Not have other people pay for your child? Can you not do it on your own?

Oh, God, people really are clueless. The only way for Andrew to be taken care of without the help of the taxpayers (which we also are) is for us to kill him and then ourselves. We're not wealthy. We are middle class and we have another autistic child as well. I'm not working, my job was sent to India. The state will not provide care for him in our home, I tried. Now that he's out of our home, they provide a psychiatrist, a physical therapist, everything the wouldn't provide while he was in our home. He's much better off and happier. He comes to visit us now twice a week and even that is almost too much for us. How many times do I have to say, my husband has Parkinson's and I have arthritis. My son is 6 feet tall and weighs 200 pounds. He has the mind of a toddler. When a toddler throws a temper tantrum, it's not big deal, when that toddler is as big as my son, yes, it's a big deal. It's really, really sad, but people on here make me actually consider doing it. Killing myself and my child just so we won't be a burden on society. I've always paid my way before. ALWAYS. I had my first job at 7 years old when I was paid a nickle for taking care of the little boy next door so his mom could get some work done. You have no idea how much this hurts. Your attitude makes it that much worse. I'm sorry, really I am. I have no idea what else to do. Please tell me. How do I make this right? Do I kill my child and myself so that we won't be a burden on society? Is that what we've become? What is my other choice? Please tell me because I'm in tears now and I really don't know what to do. Oh God it's worse, if I do this I have to kill my entire family. My husband has Parkinson's, he can't take care of himself and my oldest son is also autistic so he can't take care of himself either. A triple murder and a homicide, I think I'm gonna spend eternity in hell but then again, it won't be that different from here, will it?

 

[rightwinger]

Check out history, ace.

When the gulf between rich and poor becomes to wide? The society collapses.

Almost every time.

Let them eat cake

And your solution is what? Making sure people aren't allowed to succeed too much. Another commie who doesn't think he should have to put forth an effort.

My solution is a simple one

Why continue programs that enable the super wealthy to preserve and accumulate more wealth when it has been shown that these programs do not result in more jobs?

 

[RKMBrown]

We have to stop thinking like this.

A guy who comes into a company and gets a top slot in it, because he happens to belong to the same fraternity has the rest of the "old boys" SHOULD NOT be entitled to 300% more in pay then someone actually doing the work to make the profit.

Add in that most corporations DEPEND on the taxes we pay to keep and maintain their enterprise.

There has to be some parity in this system.

If there is not..it will definitely collapse.

So if I want to make my buddy a rich Executive in my company I should be stopped by the federal government? WOW What's next forcing me to hire Obama's buddies as rich Executives in my company? Or should we just have a law that makes companies pay everyone the same wage?

Here's one for you... If we all make the exact same paycheck what will the poverty rate be? 100%?

Check out history, ace.

When the gulf between rich and poor becomes to wide? The society collapses.

Almost every time.

All societies collapse almost every time.

Our "federal" government is constitutionally tasked with but a few things to do which are designed to eliminate societies collapse. Not to surprising that they have failed, in glaring fashion, to perform these activities. I put it to you it is this governments lack of focus on doing what they should be doing and instead focusing on issues of morality and wealth redistribution that are the cause of our recent societal downgrade.

1) Monopolies - Our government is tasked with ensuring the people have the opportunity to stand up against monopolies on the things we need and desire, such as food, transportation, health care, jobs, etc...

Here you appear to be focused on the result of monopolies, that of high pay of executives of said monopolies, vs. the failure of government to beat back said monopolies. At issue is the government's collusion in granting monopolies and ignoring others to the detriment of society.

2) copyright - is a right to copy after a reasonable time period, not a law that bans the people from ever copying that it has been changed to.

3) defense - is not occupying nearly every country on the planet

... should I go on?

Two wrongs do not make a right... we shouldn't force corporations to set a particular "high" or "low" salary, that should be done through the job, consumer, and investment markets where investors, customers, and workers can choose on their own. If however all corporations are monopolizing executive wages by colluding on executive salaries, then the investor market should be able to seek relief. Same with labor. If the corporations are colluding on wages for a particular type of employee then it is the job of our government to break them up.

 

[Sallow]

I guess you should have studied harder in school... But alas, it was not to be.

Academic success does not always assure financial success, especially if you come from a poor family.

Being born to a rich family? Almost always assures financial success.

That's a problem.

So you advocate that rich people not be allowed to pass their wealth onto their children? Whatever you say comrade.

Not at all.

That's quite a logical leap.

We live in reasonably well off society..and we got that way from the sweat of labor. It's not unreasonable to add some sort of parity into the mix.

As in, you should not ever go below a certain level in terms of poverty or above a certain level in terms of income.

It's not that hard a concept, and well within the keeping of both what the founders envisioned and what real capitalists advocate for..

 

[Againsheila]

In a nutshell

Restricting your ability to negotiate higher wages for the wealth you create reduces your net worth
Having to pay increasing heathcare costs out of your remaining wages reduces your net worth
Making your job less secure forces you to accept lower wages and reduces your net worth
Having to charge bills to credit cards and take out second mortgages because your salary no longer covers your bills decreases your net worth

Is there a law that makes you work for this jerk? Why can't you work for someone else? Why can't you work for "yourself?"

having your own business today requires licenses, and hoops to jump through. You can't just sent up a lemonade stand at the side of the road anymore, even for children that is illegal today.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No, the issue here is that 20% of our people own 83% of our wealth. You can't convince me that 80% of our people aren't working.

So if I have a twenty in my pocket and you have a nothing in your pocket that means I have all of our wealth so someone should come to my house and cut it in half and give it to you then the wealth will be evenly distributed. Problem solved right?

Nope. My answer to that is I'll just stop working hard enough to have that extra twenty in my pocket, we'll get the money from some other rich guy who has not figured out just how evil he is to be earning more than minimum wage in this country.

Here's a better analogy. We both work a 40 hour week. You get a paycheck of $10,000,000 and I get a paycheck of $10,000. We both work for the same company. Do you really believe you deserve 1000 times more money than me, regardless of our jobs?

Yes.

 

[RKMBrown]

Here's a better analogy. We both work a 40 hour week. You get a paycheck of $10,000,000 and I get a paycheck of $10,000. We both work for the same company. Do you really believe you deserve 1000 times more money than me, regardless of our jobs?

Why is the owner of the company paying someone 10m a week? I don't know you should ask the owner. Why should that same owner pay you 20k for that work week if you will do it for 10k?

 

[rightwinger]

In a nutshell

Restricting your ability to negotiate higher wages for the wealth you create reduces your net worth
Having to pay increasing heathcare costs out of your remaining wages reduces your net worth
Making your job less secure forces you to accept lower wages and reduces your net worth
Having to charge bills to credit cards and take out second mortgages because your salary no longer covers your bills decreases your net worth

Is there a law that makes you work for this jerk? Why can't you work for someone else? Why can't you work for "yourself?"

having your own business today requires licenses, and hoops to jump through. You can't just sent up a lemonade stand at the side of the road anymore, even for children that is illegal today.

Its a common libertarian misdirection

An individual can quit and look for another job. That is not a solution for everyone in an economic class.

The problem is that the working class has made sacrifices during this tough economy. Work more hours, expect fewer benefits and keep your mouth shut. While the wealthy have demanded more from their workers, they have pocketed the increased productivity rather than share it with the ones who are actually making the sacrifices

 

[RKMBrown]

In a nutshell

Restricting your ability to negotiate higher wages for the wealth you create reduces your net worth
Having to pay increasing heathcare costs out of your remaining wages reduces your net worth
Making your job less secure forces you to accept lower wages and reduces your net worth
Having to charge bills to credit cards and take out second mortgages because your salary no longer covers your bills decreases your net worth

Is there a law that makes you work for this jerk? Why can't you work for someone else? Why can't you work for "yourself?"

having your own business today requires licenses, and hoops to jump through. You can't just sent up a lemonade stand at the side of the road anymore, even for children that is illegal today.

So basically you are not willing to do even the smallest amount of effort to start a company? I've started companies. Have you? It took me a couple day's effort the first time and a few hours the second time. OOOOhhh scary licenses... maybe you just need to move to a less "liberal" state where it's easier to do business.