12.7 Million Instead of 23 Million Sign Up for Ocare

[Shrimpbox]

Siete, you have to look at the big picture. Before my wife became eligible for Medicare we paid 12000 dollars a year for insurance with a 6000 deductible. I had never paid that much per month for anything personal before that. 18000 dollars a year and in that year we had no major operations.

As near as I can tell talking to my granddaughter who is 22 she should be paying 350 PER MONTH for Obamacare because she can't afford any other policies. She is single with one child so the govt is going to pick up 200. She pays 110 or something. But 350 seems to be the going rate. More than her car payment, more than half the rent, more than any young people have paid before th she last two years. The real story is that young people who are generally healthy are going to pay for their grandparents health care in this ponzu scheme.

Operations I have had are so outrageously priced because govt is paying the bill. No man or woman should have to pay two years worth of salary for two hours of surgeon work and less than 24 hours in the hospital.

Basically healthcare is keeping the working man down. It's not all obamacares fault but Obamacare has made it worse. They can't pay off student loans, buy a home, save, or start a business as people of my generation were able to do. My fear is that our healthcare industry is going to turn into a clusterfuck and even more people are going to go without proper care because of this unwelcome bureaucracy.

If you sell your home there is a tax for Obamacare. Your kid might not get a job because a company doesn't want to hire more than fifty employees. Stories vary, but every doctors office I have been to despise Obamacare.

Obama will be gone. He never cared or understood in the first place. And I am just as mad at republicans because they're too sorry to put a good plan out. But Obamacare is going down the toilet and if you really care about healthcare we need to stop this cancer now before it gets to stage four.

 

[leftwinger]

How many of these ObamaCare enrolls are those who lost insurance they had in place cancelled due to ObamaCare and had no choice? 1/2?

We were sold that 48mil not had insurance. So blow up system, raise costs to get 8mil added on?

Pre-exisitng needed to be dealt with. But a healthy 28yr old needed catastrophic only, not colostomy.

 

[Andylusion]

Siete, you have to look at the big picture. Before my wife became eligible for Medicare we paid 12000 dollars a year for insurance with a 6000 deductible. I had never paid that much per month for anything personal before that. 18000 dollars a year and in that year we had no major operations.

As near as I can tell talking to my granddaughter who is 22 she should be paying 350 PER MONTH for Obamacare because she can't afford any other policies. She is single with one child so the govt is going to pick up 200. She pays 110 or something. But 350 seems to be the going rate. More than her car payment, more than half the rent, more than any young people have paid before th she last two years. The real story is that young people who are generally healthy are going to pay for their grandparents health care in this ponzu scheme.

Operations I have had are so outrageously priced because govt is paying the bill. No man or woman should have to pay two years worth of salary for two hours of surgeon work and less than 24 hours in the hospital.

Basically healthcare is keeping the working man down. It's not all obamacares fault but Obamacare has made it worse. They can't pay off student loans, buy a home, save, or start a business as people of my generation were able to do. My fear is that our healthcare industry is going to turn into a clusterfuck and even more people are going to go without proper care because of this unwelcome bureaucracy.

If you sell your home there is a tax for Obamacare. Your kid might not get a job because a company doesn't want to hire more than fifty employees. Stories vary, but every doctors office I have been to despise Obamacare.

Obama will be gone. He never cared or understood in the first place. And I am just as mad at republicans because they're too sorry to put a good plan out. But Obamacare is going down the toilet and if you really care about healthcare we need to stop this cancer now before it gets to stage four.

The reason the Republicans do not, is because there is no plan the public will support. The only way to get costs down, is for people to start paying for care themselves.

You want to know why care is so much cheaper at medical tourism hospitals around the world? Because people are paying for care directly. They have to. These hospitals only take cash payment.

As a result, people know the price. Because they know the price, the hospitals have to compete.

Because they have to compete, the market pushes down prices.

But if a Republican stands up and says "We are going to cut government funding, and require people pay for their own care", they would be voted out and flogged.

And we all know it. Now in the long term, that would cause prices to come down. But in the short term, people would vote for anyone who would restore the regulations, the medicare and medicaid, and the health insurance system.

Whatever plan the Republicans put forward, would 1, not likely pass, 2 cause the republicans to lose their seats, 3 be repealed or replaced before prices fell thus never fixing anything.

It's the American public that is at fault. The fact is, the few of us that know what the solution is, are greatly out numbered by the mindless lemmings that want government to provide for them.

 

[Andylusion]

How many of these ObamaCare enrolls are those who lost insurance they had in place cancelled due to ObamaCare and had no choice? 1/2?

We were sold that 48mil not had insurance. So blow up system, raise costs to get 8mil added on?

Pre-exisitng needed to be dealt with. But a healthy 28yr old needed catastrophic only, not colostomy.

In fact..... I'm one of them.

In 2006 I had a policy that was $67 a month.

Today I have a policy that is $249 a month... but subsidized by the government to $78.

I'm worse off.... and taking tax money. No choice. Can't afford $250 a month.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I don't necessarily agree on all points. We could bring costs down by getting lawyers out of healthcare and selling insurance across state lines. But they should work on the supply end and bring costs down.

Here is something that is eye opening to me. Our produce lady at the flea market went back to Mexico to get her eyes and teeth operated on because it was so much cheaper and the work was good. I don't know if Mexico is single payer or universal care but I have hea d many stories of people going back for treatment or going overseas.

Our real problems are a lack of creativity and accountability.

 

[Weatherman2020]

 

[Andylusion]

I don't necessarily agree on all points. We could bring costs down by getting lawyers out of healthcare and selling insurance across state lines. But they should work on the supply end and bring costs down.

Here is something that is eye opening to me. Our produce lady at the flea market went back to Mexico to get her eyes and teeth operated on because it was so much cheaper and the work was good. I don't know if Mexico is single payer or universal care but I have hea d many stories of people going back for treatment or going overseas.

Our real problems are a lack of creativity and accountability.

Yes and No. Mexico does have a government care system, but the people you are talking about are not part of that system.

The people going to Mexico for care, are paying for their care. And care providers in Mexico are competing with each other for business, which is why the price is lower.

Again, all health care tourism, the entire health tourism market, is a capitalist market. That's why the prices are low.

Getting rid of lawyers will not lower the overall all price of the market. I think it would help.... I do. But that isn't the biggest cause of problems.

Second, allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines is a myth. The reason why health insurance in New York is super expensive, and the health insurance in Ohio is cheaper, WAS..... because the regulations on the health system, and regulations on insurance were cheaper in Ohio than in New York.

Allowing an insurance company in Ohio offer coverage in New York, was never going to lower insurance costs. It never could. The Ohio company wouldn't be able to offer insurance that it does in Ohio, in New York, because they would have follow New York regulations. Plus the cost of a hospital stay wouldn't be any cheaper, simply because the insurance paying for it was in Ohio.

Of course half of that equation, has been nullified anyway. Obama Care established minimum insurance standards, that raised the cost of insurance in Ohio, closer to that of New York. As a result there is no real savings.

That's why the whole "insurance across state lines" push, has drastically faded as Obama care came into full effect.

If you want to lower premiums, you need to allow insurance companies to offer diverse coverage, even some that doesn't fit with current mandatory requirements.

Another way to lower costs, is to eliminate Medicare and Medicaid. Medicare and Medicaid drive up health care costs.... YOU pay more, so Medicare can pay less.

Lastly, eliminate regulations that prevent new health care businesses to operate, and allow anyone to open a medical school. Both will lower health care costs in the long run.

 

[NYcarbineer]

, Millions more feeling the jack boots of the IRS on their necks to PAY for this POS government entitlement with that Obozos name attached.

How much are you paying the IRS?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't get it . If non one is signing up , why do conservatives complain that it's gonna cost us a bazillion dollars and destroy health care for all?

ObamaCare has done nothing to bend the cost curve downward, which is what was promised.

And how do you expect the government to subsidize tens of millions of additional people and it NOT cost taxpayers a shit ton of money? Please explain. Should be fun.

it was my understanding the savings comes from insurance companies paying for care (less deductible & subsidies) and not county hospitals gouging the the taxpayers with bloated bills ...

Per capita spending is still rising. So much for that theory.

I read an article where county hospitals were charging $14 for that little paper cup the nurse uses to hand you your pills ... taxpayers picked up the tab .. ins companies dont play that game ...

When my wife was in labor with our firstborn, the nurse asked her if she would like some water. Of course, my wife agreed.

The nurse brought a plastic disposable pitcher with water.

When I got the bill, the hospital charged my insurance company $35 dollars for that pitcher of water. That's why the nurse asked. KA-CHING!

When you are insured, the hospital gouges the shit out of you. I could go on for pages and pages of how they do.

Hospitals and clinics have no choice. You have to remember that government programs pay much less to providers than private pay patients; sometimes up to 30% less.

Hospitals and doctors have to make up those losses, and they make those losses up by increasing the price to private pay and private insured people. That's why when you hear or read of a healthcare facility closing down, it's usually in a poorer area where they get mostly government patients and have nowhere to make up losses.

 

[Arianrhod]

No amount of lipstick is going to save this pig. Literally the money is not there to fund the program as opponents have contended for so long, and this is with the front loading of taxes four years before implementation.

How long will th country have to bleed out before liberals finally agree to putting a tourniquet on this fatal injury?

How long will RWs continue to believe that unsubstantiated opinion is a valid substitute for fact?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Taxpayers are paying whether it is the emergency room or Obamacare.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which policymakers rely on to assess the effect of legislation, has estimated that 13 million people would enroll in the marketplaces in 2015.

The CBO projected that 24 million would enroll in 2016, and 25 million every year thereafter.

9 to 10 million enrolled in 2015 not 13. It was half what was expected this year. I wonder what the cbo is smoking. The program fails dramatically if not enough young people or only sick and poor people sign up? Siete and others refuse to understand how the program looks for the future preferring to comment on those supposedly insured but not necessarily able to get treatment. We still have 30 million uninsured. The amount Obamacare grows the national debt increases every year this happens and is now approaching trillions.

It's nice to know a tiny shrimp brain is still bigg r than a liberal brain

projections are just that, nothing is in stone ... currently there's 18 million insured under the ACA.

as far as I can tell my bank account hasn't missed a penny has yours?

Mine has, tens of thousands of pennies.

When Commie Care became the law of the land, it gave employers like mine an opportunity to get out of the health insurance part of the business. Sure, my employer gave us a couple bucks extra in our paycheck, but not nearly enough to buy our own plans.

So now we have to buy our plans with after-tax money. The amount for a decent plan is about the price of a monthly rental on an apartment, a mortgage, or even a monthly payment on a top of the line SUV.

So now we have much less money to circulate in the system; buying less things and saving little to nothing.

To add insult to injury, Commie Care had a provision where you can't write-off medical expenses anymore unless you meet the minimum of 10K. And even then, it wouldn't be much of a write-off.

Commie Care was not designed so everybody has insurance. Commie Care was designed to make as many people dependent on government as possible. The more government dependents, the more likely Democrat voters.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't get it . If non one is signing up , why do conservatives complain that it's gonna cost us a bazillion dollars and destroy health care for all?

ObamaCare has done nothing to bend the cost curve downward, which is what was promised.

And how do you expect the government to subsidize tens of millions of additional people and it NOT cost taxpayers a shit ton of money? Please explain. Should be fun.

it was my understanding the savings comes from insurance companies paying for care (less deductible & subsidies) and not county hospitals gouging the the taxpayers with bloated bills ...

Let me ask you something: if Obama came out with a new insurance plan for auto insurance called Auto-Bama, and it forced insurance companies to cover bad drivers who got into a lot of accidents, got a lot of tickets, or had numerous DUI violations for the same price it gave to their good drivers, do you think the price of your auto premiums would increase or decrease? Do you think it would save them money or cost them more money?

 

[Andylusion]

No amount of lipstick is going to save this pig. Literally the money is not there to fund the program as opponents have contended for so long, and this is with the front loading of taxes four years before implementation.

How long will th country have to bleed out before liberals finally agree to putting a tourniquet on this fatal injury?

How long will RWs continue to believe that unsubstantiated opinion is a valid substitute for fact?

Since we are not basing our values on opinion, but fact... forever?

 

[Arianrhod]

No amount of lipstick is going to save this pig. Literally the money is not there to fund the program as opponents have contended for so long, and this is with the front loading of taxes four years before implementation.

How long will th country have to bleed out before liberals finally agree to putting a tourniquet on this fatal injury?

How long will RWs continue to believe that unsubstantiated opinion is a valid substitute for fact?

Since we are not basing our values on opinion, but fact... forever?

Then let's see some facts to support the claims in the OP.

 

[B. Kidd]

No amount of lipstick is going to save this pig. Literally the money is not there to fund the program as opponents have contended for so long, and this is with the front loading of taxes four years before implementation.

How long will th country have to bleed out before liberals finally agree to putting a tourniquet on this fatal injury?

Actually, the fatal injury may be single-payer Gov't sponsored healthcare.

VA quality-less type healthcare for all American muppets........groovy.......can you feel the Bern, yet?....................

 

[Andylusion]

No amount of lipstick is going to save this pig. Literally the money is not there to fund the program as opponents have contended for so long, and this is with the front loading of taxes four years before implementation.

How long will th country have to bleed out before liberals finally agree to putting a tourniquet on this fatal injury?

How long will RWs continue to believe that unsubstantiated opinion is a valid substitute for fact?

Since we are not basing our values on opinion, but fact... forever?

Then let's see some facts to support the claims in the OP.

We've been posting facts the entire thread in support of the OP.

Here's How Many Americans Signed Up for Obamacare This Year

That's for starters. What else would you like?

 

[Arianrhod]

No amount of lipstick is going to save this pig. Literally the money is not there to fund the program as opponents have contended for so long, and this is with the front loading of taxes four years before implementation.

How long will th country have to bleed out before liberals finally agree to putting a tourniquet on this fatal injury?

How long will RWs continue to believe that unsubstantiated opinion is a valid substitute for fact?

Since we are not basing our values on opinion, but fact... forever?

Then let's see some facts to support the claims in the OP.

We've been posting facts the entire thread in support of the OP.

Here's How Many Americans Signed Up for Obamacare This Year

That's for starters. What else would you like?

I'm not disputing the number, just the spin:

U.S. signs up 12.7 million Americans for Obamacare health insurance

About 12.7 million Americans signed up for 2016 health insurance coverage through the government insurance exchanges, surpassing its expectations, U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia Burwell said on Thursday.

The government began offering subsidies for individual insurance in 2014 under the Affordable Care Act, often called Obamacare, and charges a penalty to Americans who do not have health insurance.

In 37 states, customers can buy these plans on HealthCare.gov, the federally run website, while the other states and Washington D.C. run their own online exchanges. Enrollment closed on Jan. 31 for 2016.

Avalere Health said that based on these numbers, it expects 2016 year-end enrollment will be about 10.2 million, above President Barack Obama's administration's forecast of 10 million people being covered through the exchanges.

And I'd really like to see some facts about how "literally the money is not there."

 

[Andylusion]

No amount of lipstick is going to save this pig. Literally the money is not there to fund the program as opponents have contended for so long, and this is with the front loading of taxes four years before implementation.

How long will th country have to bleed out before liberals finally agree to putting a tourniquet on this fatal injury?

How long will RWs continue to believe that unsubstantiated opinion is a valid substitute for fact?

Since we are not basing our values on opinion, but fact... forever?

Then let's see some facts to support the claims in the OP.

We've been posting facts the entire thread in support of the OP.

Here's How Many Americans Signed Up for Obamacare This Year

That's for starters. What else would you like?

I'm not disputing the number, just the spin:

U.S. signs up 12.7 million Americans for Obamacare health insurance

About 12.7 million Americans signed up for 2016 health insurance coverage through the government insurance exchanges, surpassing its expectations, U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia Burwell said on Thursday.

The government began offering subsidies for individual insurance in 2014 under the Affordable Care Act, often called Obamacare, and charges a penalty to Americans who do not have health insurance.

In 37 states, customers can buy these plans on HealthCare.gov, the federally run website, while the other states and Washington D.C. run their own online exchanges. Enrollment closed on Jan. 31 for 2016.

Avalere Health said that based on these numbers, it expects 2016 year-end enrollment will be about 10.2 million, above President Barack Obama's administration's forecast of 10 million people being covered through the exchanges.

And I'd really like to see some facts about how "literally the money is not there."

.... WHAT?!

You need THAT to be proven to you? ... <sarcasm mode on>

Ok.... Well gee.... let's look at the mountains of money the government has to pay for all the health care....

The US Debt Just Exceeded $19 Trillion. Here’s How We Got Here.

Hmmm... we're now over $19 Trillion dollars in debt.

United States Government Debt to GDP | 1940-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar

That places us at 103% of GDP to Debt ration. Meaning if we collected EVERYTHING.... a 100% tax rate, we would still owe money after a full year... (assuming we spent 100% of the money on just debt and nothing else).

So clearly...... CLEARLY... we have *PLENTY* of spare cash to pay for all our health care needs.

Yup yup, just look at the budget.....

Budget
Revenue $3.4 Trillion
Outlays $3.9 Trillion.

Clearly there is PLENTY of money in that budget to spend as much as we need on health care.

</sarcasm>

What the heck do you mean, you need evidence we don't have money for this? Do you just flip the switch on the back of your head to 'off' just before posting? lol

 

[Shrimpbox]

Andy, let's use your own post as fodder. You talk about regulations holding the insurance companies back, so change the regulations. How can a pediatrician who has to pay 500,000 a year for insurance keep her rates down? Does Mexico have a lot of lawyers suing for health care. Does Thailand? Look at,their costs. We would do better to pay for the procedures in foreign countries.. If we allowed national insurance companies we might get companies that specialize in diabetes, heart are, cancer, or Alzheimer's.

We also need to make more use of technology. I was able to watch an operation I was to have on you tube. I was able to investigate symptoms at websites. There should be a federal database that says how much operations and treatments should cost so people have tools to negotiate with. The govt,should pay for Doctor and nurses education and then have them spend 5 years in the inner city or rural areas.and something that is a fact today. On the same drug you can save as much as 200 by buying it at Costco instead of Walgreen. The govt should should publish these drug prices. People with good lifestyles should pay less for health insurance and those with dangerous lifestyles should be charged more. If 5 major diseases causes 80 per cent of healthcare costs then focus on those diseases like a laser.

I could babble on all night, but the point is that there are so many solutions out there and nobody is going after them fast enough.

 

[Andylusion]

Andy, let's use your own post as fodder. You talk about regulations holding the insurance companies back, so change the regulations. How can a pediatrician who has to pay 500,000 a year for insurance keep her rates down? Does Mexico have a lot of lawyers suing for health care. Does Thailand? Look at,their costs. We would do better to pay for the procedures in foreign countries.. If we allowed national insurance companies we might get companies that specialize in diabetes, heart are, cancer, or Alzheimer's.

We also need to make more use of technology. I was able to watch an operation I was to have on you tube. I was able to investigate symptoms at websites. There should be a federal database that says how much operations and treatments should cost so people have tools to negotiate with. The govt,should pay for Doctor and nurses education and then have them spend 5 years in the inner city or rural areas.and something that is a fact today. On the same drug you can save as much as 200 by buying it at Costco instead of Walgreen. The govt should should publish these drug prices. People with good lifestyles should pay less for health insurance and those with dangerous lifestyles should be charged more. If 5 major diseases causes 80 per cent of healthcare costs then focus on those diseases like a laser.

I could babble on all night, but the point is that there are so many solutions out there and nobody is going after them fast enough.

We'd like to reduce regulation, but we just went the other way. We drastically increased regulations, which increased costs passed onto consumers by insurance companies with Obama Care.

Now as for a Pediatrician paying $500,000, that's exceptionally rare. That doctor has likely had some problems in the past, which is why their rates are so high.

Medical Malpractice: Myths and Realities - True Cost of Health Care

The only doctors that are being nailed to the wall with high premiums for liability, are the ones which have screwed up. Similar to the paying massive auto insurance premiums, are those who have had an accident.

Could some tort reform help? Yes... but... not nearly as much as people claim. There is tons of defensive medicine going on, but understand that if you have tort reform that actually works, it would mean that a doctor using his best judgement, may not order a test, that "could have" detected the cancer, that killed your wife. That's the trade off.

And then you can't sue him for malpractice. Which I actually agree with. Malpractice needs to be a series of consistent clear cut incompetence in my book. But others want to sue every time a doctor makes a bad call, and that's why doctors routinely practice defensive medicine, and order a dozen tests when only one is required.

There's a trade off. One way or the other.

"If we allowed national insurance companies we might get companies that specialize in diabetes, heart are, cancer, or Alzheimer's."

I'm confused why you would say this, given we have those now, without national insurance. And Ironically, we have people who come here from all over the world where they have national insurance, to be treated at specialty places in our country, where we don't have national insurance.

Diabetes Research, Care, Education & Resources | Joslin Diabetes Center
Insulin Pumps From Tandem Diabetes Care - Switch Today!
https://www.thehearthospitalbaylor.com/

I could list a few others, but that makes the point. Alzheimers, thus far there isn't anything to be done about it. There are some things being worked on, but the government has pushed companies out of doing research. It's simply too expensive.

When you hear that "X Corp" is trying out a new treatment, what that usually means today is, that they bought out a little company that came up with something.

The problem is, the left-wing idiots have taxed the crap out of companies. "Companies are making too much profit! Evil wealthy! Greed!".... right? But where do you think companies get the money to pay for R&D? From profit. But we have a 35% corporate tax on profit. So most all big companies today do not invest much in R&D. Instead they wait until someone else comes up with something, in a small company somewhere, and then they buy them out.

Equally, small companies simply don't have the capital to fund the cost of clinical trials, and doing all the government regulations required to bring the product they have to market. So they have no choice but to sell out to the Mega-Corps.

Listen, or read this episode of EconTalk for more information on the matter.
Timothy Taylor on Government vs. Business | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty

This system of course, works great for the super rich and wealth and the mega corps. Which is again is why I've said over and over and over.... the left-wing regulation is the number one supporter of the super wealthy. Capitalist like me, wouldn't have the expensive tax rates, and heavy regulatory burden, that creates these monsters.

There should be a federal database that says how much operations and treatments should cost so people have tools to negotiate with

This is another one of those "sounds good in your head" theories, that is simply impractical and impossible to make work.

You really want politicians in Washington DC, who have never worked in health care, never ran a hospital, never run so much as a dentist office, and most have never run even a lemonade stand, standing around debating what the cost of a colonoscopy should be, when half of them can't even spell it, let alone, know where on the body that is? Sheila Jackson Lee asked when the Mars Rover was going to get to the US flag..... and you want people like her, debating how much ANY operation should cost?

Now I know what you are thinking. These brilliant angelic beings in government will come up with some Utopian system for determining price.... but understand this.... they debate how much treatments should be paid with medicare today. That's why Medicare is going broke, and doctors and hospitals refuse to accept medicare patients routinely.

Let's even make up that we do in fact have brilliant people in government.... (hahahahahaha)...... let's say we do....

Do you realize how impossible this is? How much do you think an operation is going to cost in New York, NY, verses... Pueblo CO? $50,000 buys you a mansion in Pueblo. Where should the government set the price for an operation? You set the price high, and the hospitals in Pueblo go out of business, because they have no customers. You set the price low, and the hospitals in New York go out of business because no doctor would work for so little.

Even within states, the cost of living is massively different. The Hospital in down town Columbus is expensive. As you would expect. taxes are higher. Property is more expensive. Drive to the hospital just outside the city... wow, cheaper. What a shock. Taxes are lower. Property is cheaper. Who would have thunk it?

Then you have other problems. I delivered supplies from Columbus Ohio, to a hospital located in WV. Of course they paid through the teeth, but they were so far from the beaten path, that was the only way to get supplies. How do you price them?

See it's absolutely impossible for you to come up with some magic standardized price list. You just can't do it. You need a market system, where prices are determined by supply and demand. When that happens, you'll see prices fall to the market level. And we don't know what that market level is. Because we don't have a market yet.

But if you have government start assigning prices, you are going to end up with some hospitals over priced and empty, and others closed.

If you doubt that, just take a look at what is already happening.
Private cancer docs say they're getting forced out of business
Does limiting access to top cancer centers undermine the ACA?

The govt,should pay for Doctor and nurses education and then have them spend 5 years in the inner city or rural areas.and something that is a fact today

Again, another nifty idea, that doesn't have a great track record.

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UK doctors, trained at tax payer expense, and then leave the country. Free-education sounds like a wonderful idea, but the fact is, once that person has an education, you can't force him to work somewhere.

Are we in for another doctor exodus to the U.S.? - Macleans.ca

Canadian doctors leaving for the US. Now, if you are informed, I'm sure you'll have seen contradictory evidence, which is absolutely true. The flow of Canadian doctors to the US, isn't static. It fluctuates up and down, which we should expect. When the government tries to reign in costs, by capping doctor pay, suddenly there is a flow of doctors to the US. When the government realizes the massive shortage of doctors, and wait times are huge, they remove the cap, and the flow of doctors to the US drops. Better still, there are doctors that go to Canada, to get trained on tax payer money, and then quickly come back to the US to practice.

This plan has already been tried by the way. We have debt forgiveness for teachers, to make them work in inner city schools. Oddly my sister attempted this. She went to an inner city school, where she was paid next to nothing (relative to a decent teaching job), and it was so miserable, she quit immediately. Better to pay back the loan making real money, than live miserable and barely paid for years.

Teacher Loan Forgiveness in Florida Has Positive Effects, At Least in the Short Term

According to this, loan forgiveness, only had a mild 25% higher retention rate for those who enrolled in the program. Meaning many didn't enroll. And those that did, only stayed for the time required to get the debt forgiven. Then they left too.

In the short term, you'll get tons of new doctors. Anyone that can get $100,000 in medical school loans paid for free, is going to jump on it. But when the wages start falling, and those doctors can get paid more elsewhere, they'll leave. You'll end up like the UK

Breakthrough cancer treatment 'only offered to private patients'

Privately paying? Sure we can treat you. Oh, you are a gov-patient? Sorry. Maybe next year. Have a nice day.

If your job had been nationalized, and you found out you could earned double at a private company, where would you work? Same exact job. Twice the pay. Same distance from home. Why would you assume doctors are any different?

People with good lifestyles should pay less for health insurance and those with dangerous lifestyles should be charged more

Ironically, that is exactly what Obama Care just prevented. Again, I said at the start, we want to remove the regulations. It's the regulations that prevent exactly what you said.