10-year-old arrested, handcuffed over scissors

[acludem]

Have we gone just a little too far? Taking the scissors away and sending her home or calling her parents would've been one thing, but to take her away in handcuffs?

acludem
-------------------------------------
PHILADELPHIA - A 10-year-old girl was placed in handcuffs and taken to a police station because she took a pair of scissors to her elementary school.

School district officials said the fourth-grade student did not threaten anyone with the 8-inch shears, but violated a rule that considers scissors to be potential weapons.

Administrators said they were following state law when they called police Thursday, and police said they were following department rules when they handcuffed Porsche Brown and took her away in a patrol wagon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6699151/

 

[CivilLiberty]

Have we gone just a little too far? Taking the scissors away and sending her home or calling her parents would've been one thing, but to take her away in handcuffs?

I think the appropriate term is "asinine."



A

 

[Gem]

See I thought we crossed the line when a school suspended an elementary school student for pointing his chicken tender at a friend and saying "bang" because he was "making terroristic threats."

But yes, I think that we could probably reinstitute some common sense without putting ANYONE at risk.

 

[KarlMarx]

Have we gone just a little too far? Taking the scissors away and sending her home or calling her parents would've been one thing, but to take her away in handcuffs?

acludem
-------------------------------------
PHILADELPHIA - A 10-year-old girl was placed in handcuffs and taken to a police station because she took a pair of scissors to her elementary school.

School district officials said the fourth-grade student did not threaten anyone with the 8-inch shears, but violated a rule that considers scissors to be potential weapons.

Administrators said they were following state law when they called police Thursday, and police said they were following department rules when they handcuffed Porsche Brown and took her away in a patrol wagon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6699151/

You're right, it is stupid. But then, so is the fact that many of our leaders are showing us just how much they take the system seriously like debating the meaning of the word "is" and "sex".

Of course, you have to consider what has happened in the past few years. Kids are "out of control" because they know that any disciplinary action would instantly entitle them to damages in a court of law. So school administrators and teachers essentially have their hands tied when it comes to handiing out discipline. So what do we have as a result? Columbine style shootings, metal detectors in schools, ID badges for kids and teachers, surveillance cameras in schools, on buses. I work for a defense contractor and we don't have security measures like this where I work! I guess my company should consider moving any classified projects to my kids' school since the security is better there!

Now I know that Civil Liberties and ACLUDem are going to argue that there are cases where kids should be protected from teacher abuses of the past. Yes, I agree with that UP TO A POINT! But thanks to the entitlement, litigation hungry culture that we have become, there is no line drawn in the sand.

Is the world really a better place now that kids are being medicated on a regular basis in our schools (Hell.... when I was a kid, my friends and I used to do that on our own and hoped that our parents wouldn't catch us!)? Now armed guards and policemen have to patrol our schools' halls and teachers have to live in abject fear of their students?

And do you feel comfortable with the fact that a lot of these kids are going to be running our country within the next 20 years or so?

 

[CivilLiberty]

Now I know that Civil Liberties and ACLUDem are going to argue that there are cases where kids should be protected from teacher abuses of the past. Yes, I agree with that UP TO A POINT! But thanks to the entitlement, litigation hungry culture that we have become, there is no line drawn in the sand.

I'm not sure what "entitlements" have to do with this thread, but I agree that entitlements are generally a bad idea, in that many cases they simply enable self destructive behavior.

As far as litigation hungry - I hasten to point out that litigation is a right, protected in the 7th amendment of the constitution. Also, it's useful to note that the PER CAPITA federal lawsuit rate has remained the same since 1790, and the award amounts in "won" cases has mirrored inflation.

But the fallacy of tort reform is also not germane to this thread.

Is the world really a better place now that kids are being medicated on a regular basis in our schools (Hell.... when I was a kid, my friends and I used to do that on our own and hoped that our parents wouldn't catch us!)? Now armed guards and policemen have to patrol our schools' halls and teachers have to live in abject fear of their students?

No doubt that teachers and schools are eager to get kids on drugs like Ritalin, and parents seem eager to comply as opposed to taking parental responsibility.


A

 

[Patriot]

I'm not sure what "entitlements" have to do with this thread, but I agree that entitlements are generally a bad idea, in that many cases they simply enable self destructive behavior.

As far as litigation hungry - I hasten to point out that litigation is a right, protected in the 7th amendment of the constitution. Also, it's useful to note that the PER CAPITA federal lawsuit rate has remained the same since 1790, and the award amounts in "won" cases has mirrored inflation.

But the fallacy of tort reform is also not germane to this thread.




A

Entitlements...People who are sue happy so they can "hit the big time" and live the good life off their winnings. Or am I speaking of litigation hungry? Those who cant wait to sue the pants off someone so they can make a name for themselves?


Does it matter that everyone has a "right" to sue? I have the right of way when I drive and that same "right" of way gets taken away from me every day. Should I sue that person? Or how about all the "other" things that have hurt my family? Maybe I should sue for them too?


Quite frankly suing should be a last resort. And even then, when you win, people have no idea how much you really lose in that whole battle. Most of the time it isnt even worth it.

You arent very moral are you.....

 

[acludem]

Everyone should have a right to file suit when a tort has occurred. Unfortunately we've made filing lawsuits a profitable business, so this rights is often abused. However, we shouldn't throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

This case illustrates three problems, one is silly, stupid zero-tolerance, zero-common sense policies, another is the massive overreaction to the mass media's overreporting of isolated incidents of school violence, the third is the interference by politicians in what should be matters for school administrators.

acludem

 

[KarlMarx]

I'm not sure what "entitlements" have to do with this thread, but I agree that entitlements are generally a bad idea, in that many cases they simply enable self destructive behavior.

What I meant by entitlement was the idea that because you have a right to sue, you ought to, rather than take responsibility.

As far as litigation hungry - I hasten to point out that litigation is a right, protected in the 7th amendment of the constitution. Also, it's useful to note that the PER CAPITA federal lawsuit rate has remained the same since 1790, and the award amounts in "won" cases has mirrored inflation.

But the fallacy of tort reform is also not germane to this thread.

Yes, the right to litigation is a right. I am not for abolishing it. But it is a problem. Actually litigation is germane to this problem. The schools are afraid of being sued, so kids aren't being disciplined. So, to prevent another Columbine incident, they over react and send 10 year olds to jail in handcuffs. So actually, the problem of needed tort reform is germane to this topic (as it would be if we were talking about the flu vaccine shortage and the recent moratorium that OB/GYNs have on accepting new patients in some parts of the country)

According to an article that I read in The Weekly Standard, part of the problem is that the legal doctrine behind litigation has changed. It used to be that only those parties directly responsible for an injury were liable (i.e. you swing a chain, it hits me in the eye, you are liable), now there is the concept of indirect responsibility, so that those parties not directly involved with the injury suddenly are liable (i.e. you swing a chain, it hits me in the eye, not only are you liable, but the manufacturer, too)

Also, 200 billion dollars a year is awarded in litigation cases. For a 15 trillion dollar economy, that is like a 1.5% tax on everything you buy. That does not include the addition cost that companies incur to prevent from being sued, which is considerable.

No doubt that teachers and schools are eager to get kids on drugs like Ritalin, and parents seem eager to comply as opposed to taking parental responsibility.

And, thus, schools are protecting themselves from lawsuits, as well as the doctors who do the medicating…. So you see, evading responsibility and litigation go hand in hand!

And who is laughing at us all the way to the bank?

 

[dilloduck]

Have we gone just a little too far? Taking the scissors away and sending her home or calling her parents would've been one thing, but to take her away in handcuffs?

acludem
-------------------------------------
PHILADELPHIA - A 10-year-old girl was placed in handcuffs and taken to a police station because she took a pair of scissors to her elementary school.

School district officials said the fourth-grade student did not threaten anyone with the 8-inch shears, but violated a rule that considers scissors to be potential weapons.

Administrators said they were following state law when they called police Thursday, and police said they were following department rules when they handcuffed Porsche Brown and took her away in a patrol wagon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6699151/

Fear not aclu, for you have armies of lawyers to sue the crap out of everyone involved in embarrassing this poor child. Your organization will wind up making a mint off these taxpayer supported groups.
Final outcome? A bunch of bucks for the kids parents that outta soothe all that "embarassment and trauma"--A bunch of bucks for YOUR organization. Less money to educate our kids and enforce reasonable laws.
Then you can sue because our kids aren't given a proper education and law officers are not doing their job correctly. Don't try to defend what you do by using an example from a situation that YOU probably caused in the first place.

 

[Hobbit]

The public education system is broken in the worst way. I went to a state boarding school for the gifted for my last two years of high school and was nearly expelled my senior year for crossing the street to help someone push their broken down truck into a parking lot because I didn't get permission to leave campus.

 

[5stringJeff]

I agree with acludem on this one. The punishment certainly does not fit the crime. If anything, the teacher should have taken the scissors away and called the parents at home that night.

 

[Hobbit]

I agree with acludem on this one. The punishment certainly does not fit the crime. If anything, the teacher should have taken the scissors away and called the parents at home that night.

I think we're missing the most important part of the story, and that is that it's A PAIR OF FRICKIN' SCISSORS!!!! Scissors, those things you use to cut paper, a staple of elementary projects. I've been using scissors since I was 3, and I have yet to cut anyone. It's a classic example of lumping all problems into the wrong boat and then overexaggerating that boat. The problem in schools has nothing to do with weapons. It has everything to do with the fact that the administration does nothing to stop bullies. It doesn't matter if you require students to dull their fingernails, they'll still be beating and killing people on campus until the administration takes a harder stance on bullies, and I know this from experience. I was once assaulted with habenero oil, and instead of whining about it and asking that no hot foods be allowed on campus, I beat the crap out of the guy, knowing the administration would just look the other way unless someone witnessed it and complained. It's the apathy of the faculty, not the presence of "weapons" that causes violence in school, so for the love of all things good and holy, don't arrest someone over a FRICKIN' PAIR OF SCISSORS!!!!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It's come to pass. The psychos are running the asylum.

 

[insein]

I find it funny that there were 30 kids killed in philadelhpia schools last year and yet this kid is drug out in handcuffs for brining in scissors. Why arent they dragging the kids with the fucking guns out of the schools in handcuffs? Or are they too afraid that they'll get shot. Actually its probably more like they are too afraid that theyll be sued for racial discrimination against said gun carriers.

 

[Thornton]

This is a good example of what happens whenever new laws are made. They start out being made for good reasons but the legislators leave so many blank spots innocent people get caught in them and dumb ass prosecutors and Judges don't know how to apply them. Some just take advantage of the blank spots to make points or for political gain. Laws need to be defined so clear anyone reading it knows exactly what it means.

Oh and yes, I think this is too far.