1 woman & her purse vs. 3 violent men...no one has a gun...poor woman...

[2aguy]

You keep saying it doesn't happen even though well it does and I have provided lots of examples of it happening. You just don't want to save lives, you want to sell guns.

Have you ever been in a High School cafeteria...do you know how much activity...how many students and staff are there in close quarters...really...that's what you have...?

You provide 2...giffords and the long Island shooting...I provide two deaths due to rushing the gunmen...Luby's cafe and Sandy Hook...and then I put forth all the other shootings where minutes after the shooting starts, armed gunmen arrive, the police, and they stop the shooter...who either surrenders or suicides

On top of that are the examples of armed private citizens stopping these shooters...and yet...you insist your two examples trump all the others...nice work...

 

[2aguy]

Brain...have a nice rest of your weekend...good debating you...

 

[Brain357]

You keep saying it doesn't happen even though well it does and I have provided lots of examples of it happening. You just don't want to save lives, you want to sell guns.

Have you ever been in a High School cafeteria...do you know how much activity...how many students and staff are there in close quarters...really...that's what you have...?

You provide 2...giffords and the long Island shooting...I provide two deaths due to rushing the gunmen...Luby's cafe and Sandy Hook...and then I put forth all the other shootings where minutes after the shooting starts, armed gunmen arrive, the police, and they stop the shooter...who either surrenders or suicides

On top of that are the examples of armed private citizens stopping these shooters...and yet...you insist your two examples trump all the others...nice work...

My examples prove it can be done. It might have just been done again. Also if the shooter has to reload often that gives people more time to run away. In a place like a cafeteria that can be a lot of people who made it to the door who wouldn't have if the shooter could just keep pulling the trigger. The shooter having to reload also helps your good guy with a gun.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe...your government school controlled by the education wing of the democrat party education is showing....

Not every encounter with a criminal ends with the victim killing the criminal...I have shown you the research and the stories and you just don't get it...even Brain confirms me on this one...he uses it to push his own 10 round magazine agenda....

Guy, I was a fine product of Catholic education, which is why I'm a militant atheist today.

More to the point, if an encounter with a criminal didn't end with a criminal on a slab, he's just going to go on to rape or rob or kill someone else.

Victims don't want to kill people, they don't want to point guns at people...sadly the criminal initiates the violence...so when it does go to violence, the victim stops when the threat is stopped...they don't walk over and execute the criminal....

Guy, this is bullshit. You gun whacks get on here every day and fantasize about that happy day when you can exercise your God-Given Second Amendment right to go and plug you some scary negro who was committing a crime. It's why so many of you worship Zimmerman's fat ass, he was livin' the dream.

So what you guys will claim is that there are 300,000 to 2.5 million incidents a year when you finally get that opportunity to get a "good shoot" (seriously, someone called the murder of Mike Brown this on another thread) and only 200 of you a year do that? Seriously?

Get help joe...1.4 million times a year people use guns to save lives and stop violent crime...vs. 6-700 gun accidents a year...which you refuse to help alleviate by supporting gun safety education in schools...and even without that 6-70 children a year are killed in gun accidents vs. the 310 million guns in private hands....

Guy, we recall millions of baby seats and toys if we find out they killed or injured just ONE CHILD.

32,000 gun deaths and 78,000 gun injuries to no real describable benefit?

 

[Brain357]

Here is some more info from witnesses:
A law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN that Fryberg was indeed having trouble reloading and that it was because his hands were trembling.

Read more: http://www.wfsb.com/story/27018563/rampage-ended-when-hero-teacher-confronted-gunman#ixzz3HILVsBtK

Bill says don't limit his magazines though. Let him keep firing without reloading so he doesn't get slowed down. I say make him load early and often and lives will be saved.

 

[2aguy]

Bill says don't limit his magazines though. Let him keep firing without reloading so he doesn't get slowed down. I say make him load early and often and lives will be saved.

No, you say limit magazines for millions of people who don't shoot other people to make it difficult for the rare occasion when these guys go on shooting sprees...and at the same time limiting the law abiding the ability to carry enough ammo that they may need to survive...and the cases where a limited magazine would help limit a shooter are rare and even more rare because most people will not stick around to count his bullets so they can rush him when he reloads...nor would they know when and what his actions actually mean as they are trying to stay alive...

So the rare time a shooter is stopped reloading vs. hundreds of millions of Americans who don't shoot people...and all the times a shooter is stopped by armed police or armed civilians because there is no way in hell he is going to be stopped while he is reloading...

And at the same time not addressing the real problem which is so many dumb, gun free zones which keep people from using guns to stop these guys so they don't have to count their bullets to know when to charge them...

I will stand with the law abiding being armed with the weapon and ammo count of their choice to keep these guys from killing people...

Remembering that this kid broke the law to carry the gun, he broke the law to take the gun into a gun free zone and he broke the law when he began shooting people...

And another thought occurred to me...when the Sandy Hook killer killed the adult in the classrooms...were the grade school kids supposed to rush him when he reloaded....?

When he killed the youngest of the children...the ones who couldn't count to 10 yet...would you teach them to use the fingers on both hands to determine when they should rush him....? Is that what you think should happen when they attack elementary schools...?

Do you see where your silly argument breaks down...

these killers will also adjust targets...they look for easy victims...they don't shoot up police stations...

Older, more sophisticated killers will still get their hands on standard magazines even when law abiding citizens can't...I'll stick with keeping guns and weapons accessible to the good guys...since the bad guys break the law every day...

 

[2aguy]

Okay Brain...describe how these kids could have counted his bullets...

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

***** then entered a first-grade classroom where Lauren Rousseau, a substitute teacher, had herded her first grade students to the back of the room and was trying to hide them in a bathroom when Lanza forced his way into the classroom.[44] Rousseau, behavioral therapist Rachel D'Avino who had been employed for a week at the school to work with a special needs student, and fifteen students in Rousseau's class were all killed.

Okay, let's guess the adult was the first to die...they are first graders...I guess they knew how to count to 10...so if he had 10 rounds...I guess your theory works....the first graders could have counted to 10 realized he had to reload and rushed him.....Right?....Right?

Okay Brain...here is one of your perfect examples...***** was stopped in his shooting as his weapon either jammed or he had to reload...this is what happened...

Another account, given by a surviving child's father, said that Soto had moved the children to the back of the classroom and that they were seated on the floor when Lanza entered. According to this account, neither Lanza nor any of the occupants of the classroom spoke. Lanza stared at the people on the floor, pointed the gun at a boy seated there, but did not fire at the boy, who ultimately survived.[53] Lanza fired at another child in the class several times, but he was protected by the stuffed animal he was holding. The boy got up and ran out of the classroom and was among the survivors.[50

]

A Hartford Courant report said that six of the children who escaped did so when Lanza stopped shooting because his weapon jammed or he erred in reloading it.[44

]

Earlier reports said that as Lanza entered her classroom, Soto told him that the children were in the auditorium. When several of the children came out of their hiding places and tried to run for safety, Lanza fatally shot them. Soto put herself between her students and the shooter, who then fatally shot her.[54]

Okay...why didn't anyone rush him when he stopped shooting to clear the weapon or reload...well Brain....were these first graders supposed to rush him....that's what you plan to keep people safe...right? Rushing the gunmen when they reload...he had to reload here...but they didn't...why is that Brain...?

again Brain...your theory...he followed combat reloading...reloading a partial magazine with a full one...reloading multiple times during the killing...and no one rushed him....

Authorities determined that Lanza reloaded frequently during the shootings, sometimes firing only fifteen rounds from a thirty-round magazine.[73]

Your theory is crap Brain...pure and simple...the worst school killing and it shows how full of crap your theory is...

And he followed standard killer procedure...he killed himself....with his jammed glock next to him....

Banning 30 round magazines will save no lives....

 

[Brain357]

Bill says don't limit his magazines though. Let him keep firing without reloading so he doesn't get slowed down. I say make him load early and often and lives will be saved.

No, you say limit magazines for millions of people who don't shoot other people to make it difficult for the rare occasion when these guys go on shooting sprees...and at the same time limiting the law abiding the ability to carry enough ammo that they may need to survive...and the cases where a limited magazine would help limit a shooter are rare and even more rare because most people will not stick around to count his bullets so they can rush him when he reloads...nor would they know when and what his actions actually mean as they are trying to stay alive...

So the rare time a shooter is stopped reloading vs. hundreds of millions of Americans who don't shoot people...and all the times a shooter is stopped by armed police or armed civilians because there is no way in hell he is going to be stopped while he is reloading...

And at the same time not addressing the real problem which is so many dumb, gun free zones which keep people from using guns to stop these guys so they don't have to count their bullets to know when to charge them...

I will stand with the law abiding being armed with the weapon and ammo count of their choice to keep these guys from killing people...

Remembering that this kid broke the law to carry the gun, he broke the law to take the gun into a gun free zone and he broke the law when he began shooting people...

And another thought occurred to me...when the Sandy Hook killer killed the adult in the classrooms...were the grade school kids supposed to rush him when he reloaded....?

When he killed the youngest of the children...the ones who couldn't count to 10 yet...would you teach them to use the fingers on both hands to determine when they should rush him....? Is that what you think should happen when they attack elementary schools...?

Do you see where your silly argument breaks down...

these killers will also adjust targets...they look for easy victims...they don't shoot up police stations...

Older, more sophisticated killers will still get their hands on standard magazines even when law abiding citizens can't...I'll stick with keeping guns and weapons accessible to the good guys...since the bad guys break the law every day...

My argument doesn't break down Bill. I have not heard of any citizen needing more than 10 rds to defend themselves. So there is no negative there. The only people using this hi cap magazines are the criminals. So if we can limit them then it's great for everybody.

You keep talking like every one will not make any mistakes. That is simply not true. Magazine limits will save lives. It was just proven in this most recent school shooting. Sorry but you are terribly wrong.

 

[Brain357]

Okay Brain...describe how these kids could have counted his bullets...

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

***** then entered a first-grade classroom where Lauren Rousseau, a substitute teacher, had herded her first grade students to the back of the room and was trying to hide them in a bathroom when Lanza forced his way into the classroom.[44] Rousseau, behavioral therapist Rachel D'Avino who had been employed for a week at the school to work with a special needs student, and fifteen students in Rousseau's class were all killed.

Okay, let's guess the adult was the first to die...they are first graders...I guess they knew how to count to 10...so if he had 10 rounds...I guess your theory works....the first graders could have counted to 10 realized he had to reload and rushed him.....Right?....Right?

Okay Brain...here is one of your perfect examples...***** was stopped in his shooting as his weapon either jammed or he had to reload...this is what happened...

Another account, given by a surviving child's father, said that Soto had moved the children to the back of the classroom and that they were seated on the floor when Lanza entered. According to this account, neither Lanza nor any of the occupants of the classroom spoke. Lanza stared at the people on the floor, pointed the gun at a boy seated there, but did not fire at the boy, who ultimately survived.[53] Lanza fired at another child in the class several times, but he was protected by the stuffed animal he was holding. The boy got up and ran out of the classroom and was among the survivors.[50

]

A Hartford Courant report said that six of the children who escaped did so when Lanza stopped shooting because his weapon jammed or he erred in reloading it.[44

]

Earlier reports said that as Lanza entered her classroom, Soto told him that the children were in the auditorium. When several of the children came out of their hiding places and tried to run for safety, Lanza fatally shot them. Soto put herself between her students and the shooter, who then fatally shot her.[54]

Okay...why didn't anyone rush him when he stopped shooting to clear the weapon or reload...well Brain....were these first graders supposed to rush him....that's what you plan to keep people safe...right? Rushing the gunmen when they reload...he had to reload here...but they didn't...why is that Brain...?

again Brain...your theory...he followed combat reloading...reloading a partial magazine with a full one...reloading multiple times during the killing...and no one rushed him....

Authorities determined that Lanza reloaded frequently during the shootings, sometimes firing only fifteen rounds from a thirty-round magazine.[73]

Your theory is crap Brain...pure and simple...the worst school killing and it shows how full of crap your theory is...

And he followed standard killer procedure...he killed himself....with his jammed glock next to him....

Banning 30 round magazines will save no lives....

Nobody is counting bullets and I've said that oh maybe a 100 times now. The people at the Giffords shooting did not count bullets, but they did stop the shooter. The teacher at this school shooting was not counting bullets, but she stopped the shooter. In many, many shootings people were given time to escape because the shooter had to reload. Nobody is counting bullets. Stop talking like an idiot.

A Hartford Courant report said that six of the children who escaped did so when Lanza stopped shooting because his weapon jammed or he erred in reloading it.[44

]

So children escaped because he was reloading. That is what I have been saying. Make the shooter reload early and often and people will escape or rush the shooter.

 

[Politico]

I guess, when I have three people with knives coming to kill me, I'd better throw away my handgun to increase my chances of survival.

How many times have you had 3 guys with knives coming to kill you? Why would they want to kill you?

It does not matter. It's an example.

There are people in this world who are willing to hurt you.

They're called criminals.

Yes but you make it sound so likely to happen. I am pretty old and nobody has ever tried to kill me, nor do I know anyone who has been murdered. Our homicide rate is about 4.7 per 100,000 people. I don't think in my entire life have I met 100,000 people. While our homicide rate is bad compared to many countries, you are still not very likely to be murdered by criminals.

Then you are very lucky.

No actually statistics make it clear you aren't that likely to be murdered. It's not luck. 4.7 out of 100,000 isn't that high of a chance.

Well we're not just talking about murder. Statistically speaking if you have never even some in contact with anyone who has been killed or have had anyone try to harm you luck has been on your side. It also means you've never put yourself in harms way and ran anytime you have seen trouble. But luck was still involved.

 

[2aguy]

Brain, you are being deceitful again...you do not mean high capacity magazines...you want to ban the magazine that is issued with the pistol or rifle...the standard magazine...

And you have gone on in post after post saying that if only these guys had to change magazines more often then the good guys can tackle them..you have...post after post...well the Sandy Hook shooter, from that post, changed magazines multiple times....and was not tackled by anyone...

And another point from Sandy Hook...he did combat reloads...he reloaded after he only used part of the magazine...so when he reloaded there was still a live round in the chamber so if anyone charged him he could still shoot them...since he wasn't letting the gun run dry...and then reload....so your theory now requires multiple people...at the same time to know when he decides to reload, quickly organize a joint attack and tackle him...again...not going to happen...and it only happened in very rare cases compared to all other mass shootings where it took actual good guys...with 30 round magazines in AR-15s and 15 round magazines in their Glocks and M&Ps to go in and either kill the guy, or force him to commit suicide...

And the killer who did use legally mandated 10 round magazines...the Santa Barbara killer...still killed 6 people with those 10 round magazines...killers will get standard magazines illegally if they decide that is what they want, or they will just use 10 round magazines and still kill people....the only people effected by a ban on standard magazines...the law abiding people who won't use them to murder people...and who may very well need them to survive an encounter with one or more criminals...

And this most recent shooting....sorry...they are interpreting what happend and they are most likely wrong...why...the kid killed the people he wanted to kill and then his gun either malfunctioned or he had to reload....then he planned on shooting himself but the teacher surprised him....why do we know he wasn't going to continue shooting after his weapon was cleared....because he had a functioning weapon after the reload or clearing...and he didn't shoot the teacher who was at close range and empty handed....he turned the gun on himself....if he had planned on killing random students and staff, he would have killed her...

Forcing honest, law abiding citizens to give up standard magazines is wrong because it will be an actual way to ban certain types of pistols...from what I have read, when you ban the standard magazine...you make the weapon inoperable because they don't have 10 round magazines for those weapons...you then increase the burden on the companies because now they have to make magazines for police and military, and then other magazines for civilians...making current guns unusable...since most of the current laws don't allow just counting out 10 bullets...

Millions of regular people own guns and don't use them to shoot other people...you want to ban them from having standard capacity magazines....that ban which will not stop one crime, or one mass shooting...just dumb

 

[2aguy]

Guy, we recall millions of baby seats and toys if we find out they killed or injured just ONE CHILD.

They are recalled when they are defective....you do realize that guns are recalled all the time when they are defective...right...Springfield Armory recalled millions of their XDS 9mm and .45 caliber guns when they discovered a possible malfunction...it wasn't even shown to be a real problem...but the recalled them all just in case...so please...do your research...

 

[Brain357]

Brain, you are being deceitful again...you do not mean high capacity magazines...you want to ban the magazine that is issued with the pistol or rifle...the standard magazine...

And you have gone on in post after post saying that if only these guys had to change magazines more often then the good guys can tackle them..you have...post after post...well the Sandy Hook shooter, from that post, changed magazines multiple times....and was not tackled by anyone...

And another point from Sandy Hook...he did combat reloads...he reloaded after he only used part of the magazine...so when he reloaded there was still a live round in the chamber so if anyone charged him he could still shoot them...since he wasn't letting the gun run dry...and then reload....so your theory now requires multiple people...at the same time to know when he decides to reload, quickly organize a joint attack and tackle him...again...not going to happen...and it only happened in very rare cases compared to all other mass shootings where it took actual good guys...with 30 round magazines in AR-15s and 15 round magazines in their Glocks and M&Ps to go in and either kill the guy, or force him to commit suicide...

And the killer who did use legally mandated 10 round magazines...the Santa Barbara killer...still killed 6 people with those 10 round magazines...killers will get standard magazines illegally if they decide that is what they want, or they will just use 10 round magazines and still kill people....the only people effected by a ban on standard magazines...the law abiding people who won't use them to murder people...and who may very well need them to survive an encounter with one or more criminals...

And this most recent shooting....sorry...they are interpreting what happend and they are most likely wrong...why...the kid killed the people he wanted to kill and then his gun either malfunctioned or he had to reload....then he planned on shooting himself but the teacher surprised him....why do we know he wasn't going to continue shooting after his weapon was cleared....because he had a functioning weapon after the reload or clearing...and he didn't shoot the teacher who was at close range and empty handed....he turned the gun on himself....if he had planned on killing random students and staff, he would have killed her...

Forcing honest, law abiding citizens to give up standard magazines is wrong because it will be an actual way to ban certain types of pistols...from what I have read, when you ban the standard magazine...you make the weapon inoperable because they don't have 10 round magazines for those weapons...you then increase the burden on the companies because now they have to make magazines for police and military, and then other magazines for civilians...making current guns unusable...since most of the current laws don't allow just counting out 10 bullets...

Millions of regular people own guns and don't use them to shoot other people...you want to ban them from having standard capacity magazines....that ban which will not stop one crime, or one mass shooting...just dumb

Didn't have those problems the last time we limited mag capacity. And since we have done it before it will be easier for companies this time.

I want to slow the bad guys to save lives. Any decent person would want to. If gun owners are really good guys they should be on board.

6 children escaped while that asshole reloaded. That should be enough reason. I'd give my life to save 6 children. You won't even lower your mag cap, that says a lot.

 

[2aguy]

Well, since drunk drivers kill just as many people as criminals do...let's use your logic to solve that problem....

All cars should have breathalyzers that keep them from starting till you blow in a tube...and stop occasionally requiring you to re blow to restart the car...all cars... since 10,000 or more people a year are killed by drunk drivers...right...that way you save lives....more than any imaginary lives saved by a magazine ban...right? Every single car in the country should require you to blow into a tube...to test your alcohol lever before you drive...right?

6 children escaped while that asshole reloaded. That should be enough reason. I'd give my life to save 6 children. You won't even lower your mag cap, that says a lot.

Sadly, only 6...and he reloaded several times....and it didn't save any more children than that and that, only because luck was with them...since it didn't save any other children while he kept reloading the other times...right?

I want to slow the bad guys to save lives.

This didn't slow him down...or any of the other mass shooters...they were stopped by armed citizens or armed police....

End gun free school zones...allow parents and specific trained staff to carry guns...and you would likely have saved all those children...that is how you save lives...not some stupid idea that only affects people who obey the law....

Any decent person would want to.

Any decent person wouldn't want to disarm the good guys while the bad guys break the law...and get the magazines they want anyway...but that would require rational thought....

 

[2aguy]

From experts...

High-Capacity-Magazine Bans National Review Online

In a gunfight, being able to reload with new magazines is a real advantage, and this is why police officers and licensed civilians regularly carry spare magazines for their pistols. The deputy sheriff who was my concealed-weapons instructor in California emphasized to our class the importance of always having at least four spare magazines on your belt in case you are attacked.

When magazine bans were first proposed, the theory was that they would make police officers safer when attacked by criminals. But even the Clinton administration’s 1999 study of the federal assault-weapons ban (which banned new manufacture of magazines over ten rounds) found no statistically significant differences in murder rates of police officers because of the new law. This justification for the ban on high-capacity magazines has not survived real-world experiment.

There is one other situation where a high-capacity magazine serves a necessary, even praiseworthy function. During the riots following the Rodney King trial, many shopkeepers in the Korean section of Los Angeles confronted mobs threatening to loot and burn the stores. Some of the shopkeepers used high-capacity magazines in rifles to avoid taking lives.

Yes, you read that right. By firing two or three shots over the heads of the rioters, the shopkeepers were able to impress on these criminals that they should keep their distance or risk death. Because they had 30-round magazines in their rifles, they could afford to fire two or three warning shots. Had they been limited to three or five rounds per magazine, they likely would have had the choice of abandoning their stores or making every bullet deadly.

On a shooting range, it’s really quite easy to keep every shot on the paper. Things are a bit different in a high-stress, poorly illuminated gunfight inside your home, where it is possible that for every three or four shots you fire, only one delivers an incapacitating blow to an attacker. Yes, you can change magazines rapidly with a modern pistol or rifle, but it is better not to have that distraction in the middle of a gunfight.

 

[BullKurtz]

Guy, I was a fine product of Catholic education, which is why I'm a militant atheist today.


Guy, this is bullshit. You gun whacks get on here every day and fantasize about that happy day when you can exercise your God-Given Second Amendment right to go and plug you some scary negro who was committing a crime. It's why so many of you worship Zimmerman's fat ass, he was livin' the dream.

"Guy", you're crazy as a sewer rat.

 

[2aguy]

And more information on why banning 30 round magazines is just stupid...feel good nonsense...

Let me show you why banning high capacity magazines won 8217 t solve a thing Flopping Aces

Lanza reportedly expended 154 rounds in five minutes. He reloaded six times. Had he ten round magazines he would have had to carry 15 additional magazines instead of the nine he carried in order to expend the same number of rounds. Allowing four seconds per reload (generous, as you can see) Lanza would have needed an additional 40 seconds at most to do what he did- probably less, since half of the magazines weren’t empty.

Banning high capacity magazines won’t solve a thing. People are focused narrowly on the reported five minutes Lanza spent shooting. The problem is, he had more than ten minutes.

And his targets were unarmed.

His targets being unarmed is the important point to all of this...

 

[2aguy]

yeah...and technology just made your point even dumber than it already was...3D printers can make 30 round magazines...and these are just our 3D printers....imagine printers in 10-15 years and what they will be able to do...and for criminals....

3D Printers And High Capacity Magazine Bans - Business Insider

Wilson argues that the high capacity magazine ban wouldn’t just be wrong, but also impossible to enforce, as his project aims to show. Even if Defense Distributed’s original goal of printing a gun from scratch remains out of reach, the restrictions on magazine could be far more easily bypassed, he says. “[Lawmakers] are taking a giant step backward, and it makes everything we’ve talked about more practical,” says Wilson. “There’s more opportunity to demonstrate the usefulness, the consequences of our project. I can already print this magazine and show that prohibition has run up against a problem.”

So determined killers already have the means to bypass your ban...but law abiding citizens won't by pass the ban...because they follow the law...

Your argument is done...

 

[2aguy]

And of course a 30 round magazine ban would very likely just be a major headache for cops and prosectuors...and from a liberal crap site no less...

Colorado Magazine ban bill unenforceable

Bad bills make for bad laws.

Highlights:

"HB 1224 places impossible enforcement decisions on
Colorado law enforcement. To effectively enforce HB 1224, Colorado law
enforcement would need to be able to determine: 1) whether a magazine is
“designed to be readily converted;” 2) whether a magazine was in existence prior
to the ban; and 3) whether a magazine had been in continuous possession since
the enactment of the ban."

Simply put, prosecutors would have no way of knowing weather the 30 round magazine you have is grandfathered or not, unless you tell them. A defendant pleading the 5th typically does not meet the states burden of proof.

 

[Andylusion]

Well, another anti gunner victory...no one in this situation had a gun...so the woman was viciously beaten for her purse by three men....she didn't have a gun....neither did they....an anti gunner paradise....

the attack was,caught on video....it shows how vicious the attack was....

Trio of Black New York Men Beat Hispanic Woman in Robbery Attempt

The other two then swarm around her trying to pry her wrap around purse from her body as she lay helpless on the sidewalk. Two of them men drag her several feet by the purse strap.

"I just remember the whole attack, and for them leaving me, I remember them just dragging me, and then I started yelling for someone to help me," Reyes told CBS. "And then that's when I realized blood was coming from my face, but I didn't know where from my face."

The victim's father said that his daughter was traumatized by the attack.

"And her jeans were covered in blood and her sneakers were covered in blood," Jay Reyes said.

I can see that this is so much better...sure, she might have been killed, she might have been beaten into a coma...but it is better for society that she just take the beating...quietly, and without fuss, so that the anti gunners can feel safe....better 1000 innocent people be raped, robbed, brutally beaten or killed, than one criminal be shot....

Right?

In this case it's a good thing she didn't have a gun, she didn't have the situation awareness mentality she placed herself in that situation when she walked in between the three where it left her no avenue of escape, and noway she would have had time to pull a firearm..

There you go.... Broad assumption that the gun would not have done any good... and based on the unsupportable assumption, claim no one should be able to defend themselves because if they did have that ability, they wouldn't have used it right.....

Does that logic work in any other situation?

You shouldn't have the ability to talk on internet forums, because if you did have that ability, you wouldn't use it right, and make yourself look retarded to everyone on the forum.

Please remove yourself from the conversation..... it's for your own good.