Zogby: 10/14/08

[Clay Buster]

Another tidbit to throw in the mix...

While polls do tend to over sample Dems, not enough to have a huge impact with spreads like these, there is an undersampling of a group that will definitely vote Obama.

All of the younger generation, 30 and below, that don't have land lines are not being polled.

Nowadays many people only have a cell phone and since the majority of polls are conducted via land-lines, this demo is not being sampled.

The point being that Obama may actually have a bigger lead than even the polls indicate.

 

[Article 15]

Another tidbit to throw in the mix...

While polls do tend to over sample Dems, not enough to have a huge impact with spreads like these, there is an undersampling of a group that will definitely vote Obama.

All of the younger generation, 30 and below, that don't have land lines are not being polled.

Nowadays many people only have a cell phone and since the majority of polls are conducted via land-lines, this demo is not being sampled.

The point being that Obama may actually have a bigger lead than even the polls indicate.

You may be correct here ...

After observing the McCain/Palin campaign for the last 6 weeks I'm surprised that anyone is willing to pull the lever for them.

 

[jillian]

Republicans can thank themselves for the reshaping of the electoral map.

Given 4 more years they could have failed themselves right out of existence .. which is not to say democrats have the courage to lead this nation.

In 8 years, democrats may fail themselves out of existence.

Well, in part they certainly can. But there has also been a concerted voter registration effort in traditionally red states. I have no doubt that helped a bit.

As for courage? Well, I haven't seen any in the past two years. I have no expectation that I will see any in the next eight. There is a part of me that puts this election in the "be careful what you wish for" catagory since we now find ourselves in the position of having to clean up this admin's mess. If we fail, no one will say, "well, look what they inherited"...

 

[BlackAsCoal]

They need to boot Pelosi and Reid out of leadership positions if they want to avoid that fate ...

Of coure they may have to take Obama and Biden with them.

They have Iraqistan planned for Afghanistan and Pakistan .. which is absolutely mindless .. and they've got Captain Brezinski at the helm.

 

[Article 15]

RCP update: Obama +7.4

 

[Article 15]

Of coure they may have to take Obama and Biden with them.

I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen ...

They have Iraqistan planned for Afghanistan and Pakistan .. which is absolutely mindless .. and they've got Captain Brezinski at the helm.

We'll find out how much is behind all the campaign rhetoric in due time ...

 

[jillian]

Of coure they may have to take Obama and Biden with them.

They have Iraqistan planned for Afghanistan and Pakistan .. which is absolutely mindless .. and they've got Captain Brezinski at the helm.

Ah yes, Brezinski... I think Obama tossed him once already. My favorite professor in college had been one of Brezinski's students. He used to say that Brezinsky was insane and a sociopath. lol...

I like his daughter, though.


I hope Biden would help dissuade Obama from giving one of the top spots to Brezinski.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Well, in part they certainly can. But there has also been a concerted voter registration effort in traditionally red states. I have no doubt that helped a bit.

As for courage? Well, I haven't seen any in the past two years. I have no expectation that I will see any in the next eight. There is a part of me that puts this election in the "be careful what you wish for" catagory since we now find ourselves in the position of having to clean up this admin's mess. If we fail, no one will say, "well, look what they inherited"...

Some of what the democrats are inheriting is their own doing. They've capitulated to evil time and time again.

There is a case that can be made that with the coming democratic tsunami in House and Senate elections, the country might be better off with McCain as president.

McCain wouldn't be able to get much done and it would be very difficult for him to start a war. Everything he did would have to go through the democrats.

Obama on the other hand has free reign to start any war he chooses .. or better put, any war Wall Street chooses.

 

[Article 15]

Ah yes, Brezinski... I think Obama tossed him once already. My favorite professor in college had been one of Brezinski's students. He used to say that Brezinsky was insane and a sociopath. lol...

I like his daughter, though.


I hope Biden would help dissuade Obama from giving one of the top spots to Brezinski.

Big Z is old ... like really old.

I like Mika too ...

 

[BlackAsCoal]

I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen ...



We'll find out how much is behind all the campaign rhetoric in due time ...

I agree that Obama and Biden aren't going anywhere .. so you might as well leave Pelosi and Reid in place.

I don't want to wait until I see dead people .. dead innocent people .. before I question the wisdom of expanding corporate wars for profit.

 

[Larkinn]

Another tidbit to throw in the mix...

While polls do tend to over sample Dems, not enough to have a huge impact with spreads like these, there is an undersampling of a group that will definitely vote Obama.

All of the younger generation, 30 and below, that don't have land lines are not being polled.

Nowadays many people only have a cell phone and since the majority of polls are conducted via land-lines, this demo is not being sampled.

The point being that Obama may actually have a bigger lead than even the polls indicate.

They are also undersampling blacks. They are assuming that blacks will vote in the same proportions as 2004, which is quite unlikely given that thre is now a black candidate.

 

[Luissa]

Another tidbit to throw in the mix...

While polls do tend to over sample Dems, not enough to have a huge impact with spreads like these, there is an undersampling of a group that will definitely vote Obama.

All of the younger generation, 30 and below, that don't have land lines are not being polled.

Nowadays many people only have a cell phone and since the majority of polls are conducted via land-lines, this demo is not being sampled.

The point being that Obama may actually have a bigger lead than even the polls indicate.

Yeah! You might be right, I never thought about that!
And where do they do these polls, I have never gotten a call about polling. I have been called they of the election to be told to vote but that is about it.

ANd also for one going along with the cell phone thing, are they polling the people who have just registered to vote in the last few months?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

They are also undersampling blacks. They are assuming that blacks will vote in the same proportions as 2004, which is quite unlikely given that thre is now a black candidate.

Unfortunately, African-Americans will come out in record numbers .. already being evidenced by early voting .. to support a candidate, Obama, who gives blacks the middle finger of hope .. although a growing number of us see through the facade already.

The only saving grace I see in Obama is that he may finally teach the black community that politics ain't the answer.

Economics is the answer and the engine that must drive our politics.

 

[Caligirl]

Sustainability is the answer. Or education.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Sustainability is the answer. Or education.

Without economics, there is nothing to sustain.

Without economics, education becomes one of the crumbs on the table we have to beg for.

The good news for me is that I've lived the sixties, and I've lived long enough to remember when politics was about substance, not symbolism.

 

[Larkinn]

Unfortunately, African-Americans will come out in record numbers .. already being evidenced by early voting .. to support a candidate, Obama, who gives blacks the middle finger of hope .. although a growing number of us see through the facade already.

The only saving grace I see in Obama is that he may finally teach the black community that politics ain't the answer.

Economics is the answer and the engine that must drive our politics.

If Obama didn't give you the middle finger, he would be accused of being racist against whites even more than he is now. If Obama embraced the black community wholeheartedly he would be seen as the candidate for the blacks, and wouldn't have a shot in hell.

 

[Caligirl]

If turning a buck is the goal, then everything else goes to hell.

Current events show this pretty well.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

If Obama didn't give you the middle finger, he would be accused of being racist against whites even more than he is now. If Obama embraced the black community wholeheartedly he would be seen as the candidate for the blacks, and wouldn't have a shot in hell.

Wait .. so giving us the finger is in America's best interest?

No one is asking Obama to be the black president .. but when he visits the hispanic community he's going to talk about immigration, drivers license, and all the issues they want to hear.

When he visits the jewish community he's going to talk about Israel and all the issues they want to hear .. and the same is true for women, gays, veterans, and every demographic he visits.

But when he visits the black community he talks about "absent fathers" and responsibility and does not address issues on the black agenda .. and we should be happy with the finger? What? .. It ain't our time yet?

Jesse Jackson was right about him .. so was Nader.

What he could talk about is the fact that America has become the greatest prison nation the world has ever known. We imprison more people than all the totalitarian nations we look down our noses at. He could talk about the FACT that the war on drugs is nothing more than a war on black people and that although whites make up as much as 72% of all illegalk drug users in America, the prisons are full with black people. He could talk about the undisputed racial injustice of the JUST-US criminal system that hands out long prison sentences to blacks for the same crimes whites get probation for.

He could couch that argument in the thing Americans care about most .. MONEY. Any idea how much it costs us to be the greatest prison nation on earth?

In his metamorphsis into republican-lite, Obama NOW supports the death penalty .. even though the REPUBLICAN governor of his own state suspended death sentences because even he recognizes the disparities and arrest and sentencing.

So what good is he?

Let me ask you this ... what do I say to the white politician who may be in a position to address an injustice to the black communtiy? Wouldn't his sane and sound answer be why didn't you ask Obama? Why should a white politician be more concerned about black issues than the black politician?

Additionally, Joe Lieberman has absolutley no misgivings about his support for jewish issues.

Did you vote for Lieberman on the Gore ticket?

At what point, given that blacks have only been relatively free for 43 years out of almost 400 years in America .. at what point do we get to remove "relatively" from "freedom?"

 

[Larkinn]

Wait .. so giving us the finger is in America's best interest?

Yes. And in your best interest. Obama would help the black community far more than McCain will. But yet if he is seen to be pandering to, or a key supporter of the black community, then he becomes the black candidate, and he loses.

No one is asking Obama to be the black president .. but when he visits the hispanic community he's going to talk about immigration, drivers license, and all the issues they want to hear.

When he visits the jewish community he's going to talk about Israel and all the issues they want to hear .. and the same is true for women, gays, veterans, and every demographic he visits.

But when he visits the black community he talks about "absent fathers" and responsibility and does not address issues on the black agenda .. and we should be happy with the finger? What? .. It ain't our time yet?

Jesse Jackson was right about him .. so was Nader.

Sure it is. But he has to sell to the people who wouldn't vote for him anyway. He has the black community in the bag, and he knows it, so when he talks to them he has to be focusing not on them, but on how his speeches to them will be interpreted by the largely white media.

What he could talk about is the fact that America has become the greatest prison nation the world has ever known. We imprison more people than all the totalitarian nations we look down our noses at. He could talk about the FACT that the war on drugs is nothing more than a war on black people and that although whites make up as much as 72% of all illegalk drug users in America, the prisons are full with black people. He could talk about the undisputed racial injustice of the JUST-US criminal system that hands out long prison sentences to blacks for the same crimes whites get probation for.

Awesome, maybe while he is painting himself as a soft on crime, pro-drug, racialist candidate he can do something else equally as stupid to make mainstream Americans hate him. Thing is, I agree with you that those are all problems, but it is politically impossible for him to say those things.

He could couch that argument in the thing Americans care about most .. MONEY. Any idea how much it costs us to be the greatest prison nation on earth?

In his metamorphsis into republican-lite, Obama NOW supports the death penalty .. even though the REPUBLICAN governor of his own state suspended death sentences because even he recognizes the disparities and arrest and sentencing.

So what good is he?

Hes not going to fit all of your positions. I think he is an extremely intelligent guy who has morals/values similar to me (and perhaps you). He won't agree with everything I say, nor what you say, but he can't appear to be a liberal radical when running for president. If he does, he loses. Period.

Let me ask you this ... what do I say to the white politician who may be in a position to address an injustice to the black communtiy? Wouldn't his sane and sound answer be why didn't you ask Obama? Why should a white politician be more concerned about black issues than the black politician?

Your response to him is that "no, I don't need to ask the black candidate to help the black community. We are Americans, and a part of America, and you cannot ignore us because the color of your skin is different than ours". Obama is not unconcerned with black issues, do remember he spent a large part of his life in Chicago working on black issues. But no, hes not going to pander to you now. Because if he does, he loses.

Additionally, Joe Lieberman has absolutley no misgivings about his support for jewish issues.

No, he doesn't. But perhaps you've noticed that the Jewish voting bloc has just a little bit more power in this country than the black voting bloc.

Did you vote for Lieberman on the Gore ticket?

I was 16, so no. But I would have, if I could have. Not for Lieberman per se, I'm not a fan of him, but for Gore.

At what point, given that blacks have only been relatively free for 43 years out of almost 400 years in America .. at what point do we get to remove "relatively" from "freedom?"

Dunno, but Obama is a step in the right direction. Is it fucked that he has to ignore the black community so hes not considered anti-white? Yes. Is it fucked the racial "otherness" shit that is going on in the election? Yes. Is Obama, regardless, still a LOT better for blacks in this country than McCain? Yes.

Be a purist if you want. Expect the world from a presidential candidate if you want, but you'll only be disappointed. I think Obama is the best candidate to run for president for a long time. No, hes not perfect. He hasn't run a perfect campaign, and he won't be a perfect president. And who knows, in 4 years I may think it was a terrible choice. But for right now I think we finally have a viable, brilliant, committed Democratic candidate.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Yes. And in your best interest. Obama would help the black community far more than McCain will. But yet if he is seen to be pandering to, or a key supporter of the black community, then he becomes the black candidate, and he loses.

Sure it is. But he has to sell to the people who wouldn't vote for him anyway. He has the black community in the bag, and he knows it, so when he talks to them he has to be focusing not on them, but on how his speeches to them will be interpreted by the largely white media.

Awesome, maybe while he is painting himself as a soft on crime, pro-drug, racialist candidate he can do something else equally as stupid to make mainstream Americans hate him. Thing is, I agree with you that those are all problems, but it is politically impossible for him to say those things.

Hes not going to fit all of your positions. I think he is an extremely intelligent guy who has morals/values similar to me (and perhaps you). He won't agree with everything I say, nor what you say, but he can't appear to be a liberal radical when running for president. If he does, he loses. Period.

Your response to him is that "no, I don't need to ask the black candidate to help the black community. We are Americans, and a part of America, and you cannot ignore us because the color of your skin is different than ours". Obama is not unconcerned with black issues, do remember he spent a large part of his life in Chicago working on black issues. But no, hes not going to pander to you now. Because if he does, he loses.

No, he doesn't. But perhaps you've noticed that the Jewish voting bloc has just a little bit more power in this country than the black voting bloc.

I was 16, so no. But I would have, if I could have. Not for Lieberman per se, I'm not a fan of him, but for Gore.

Dunno, but Obama is a step in the right direction. Is it fucked that he has to ignore the black community so hes not considered anti-white? Yes. Is it fucked the racial "otherness" shit that is going on in the election? Yes. Is Obama, regardless, still a LOT better for blacks in this country than McCain? Yes.

Be a purist if you want. Expect the world from a presidential candidate if you want, but you'll only be disappointed. I think Obama is the best candidate to run for president for a long time. No, hes not perfect. He hasn't run a perfect campaign, and he won't be a perfect president. And who knows, in 4 years I may think it was a terrible choice. But for right now I think we finally have a viable, brilliant, committed Democratic candidate.

Spoken like a true believer that blacks deserve second-class citizenship. That's not racist because you could be Alan Keyes or Ward Connelly or some other black person who believes that bullshit.

So, pandering to you is OK, but addressing what is important to blacks is good for America?

Excuse me, but that is incredibly silly to the nth degree.

Obama is running against the worst presidential ticket in modern American history, but you believe he needs to reject his own race to become president .. and we can all then celebrate how unracial America is.

Incredibly silly argument.

How about this .. how about him just saying I hate dumb nxxxers. Would that suit you? Surely he can then pick up the racist vote.

I mean, who cares if another innocent person dies at the hands of the state and an unjusr criminal system. No skin off your nose.

Who cares if another 92 year-old black woman is murdered by police as she sat quietly in her own home .. police burst through the door then shoot het to death in her wheelchair .. why the fuck would you care?

As a child, I used to wonder how this country could have allowed the ungodly oppression and terrorism that blacks suffered for almost 400 years. Where were the "good" people? .. Then I realized, they were "good" people just like you .. they had their own concerns .. let em' hang.

Just close your eyes and symbolism will make it all better.

Let me see .. we can tell the white politicians that "we are Americans and you can't ignore us" .. but by your own words, Obama can ignore us .. that makes sense to you?

Feel free to go to the polls and support him if you choose .. never suggested telling you who to vote for .. but I have a different perspective and my name is not YOU. I don't vote for actors and clowns who will say and do anything to get elected.

By the way, it isn't the jewish voting bloc that carries the weight as jews make up about 3% of the American population. It is jewish money that carries the weight.