Zionism and The Iranian Problem

Discussion in 'Iran' started by Annie, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I posted this on another thread, but didn't seem to get any takers, so I stared anew:

    I've been seeing a lot of call outs regarding anti-semitism and anti-Palestinians. Often the reply is that the poster doesn't hate Jews, but rather Zionists. Then there are the accusations that the Israelis are repeating Nazi behaviors. How? Lord knows the arguments of 'stolen lands' from the wars are enough to make any sane person lift up their arms in exasperation; however, if every inch was returned, no conditions, would that make it ok? Or is the real problem the existence of any Jewish land? Is the real argument that a two state solution is wrong, that their should ONLY be Palestinian land?

    What do you consider Zionism? Why is it so offensive? Do you believe a two state solution is viable? If yes, under what conditions? If no, why not? What about the right of return? If yes, why? If no, what is wrong with it?
     
  2. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    This is the Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., position. And while these Palestinian murderers indiscriminately kill innocent Israelis, Shogun and his supporters bemoan the treatment of those who backup the killing. Not once in any of Shogun's nauseatingly rabid spew on this board did I read anything about the way Palestinians rejected the Israelis when they were offered 99 percent of what they demanded at Camp David, including a Palestinian State and the return of almost all occupied land. Not once did I read condemnation of Palestinians resuming the murder campaign after Camp David. No the 99 percent the Palestinians received at Camp David was not good enough. Instead they, and their supporters, seek to erase Israel.
     
  3. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    A two-state solution seems to me to be the only solution. How to get there and how to make it work are the problems of course.
     
  4. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Well that seems to be what I've read too. But perhaps we're wrong in what was meant. I certainly want to know what they see as 'so evil' about Zionism, since that seems to be the crux of their argument.
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    In order for a two state solution, one of the states would be Israel. Is that ok, or is that Zionism?
     
  6. Dr Grump
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    Dr Grump Gold Member

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    It is not zionism. Zionism is Jewish nationalism taken to the extreme. It would be what communism is to the average left-leaning person, or fascism is to the average right-leaning person - the extreme. A two-party state is the only solution. But as has been proven (and will happen again), give them autonomy and they'll start eating themselves (a la Hamas and Fatah at the moment). Same thing will happen when or if the Kurds ever get a home state. Once they get it, there'll be infighting like you wouldn't believe..
     
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  7. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict”

    Compiled, Edited, and Published by Jews for Justice in The Middle East

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

    Was Arab opposition to the arrival of Zionists based on inherent anti-Semitism or a real sense of danger to their community?

    “The aim of the [Jewish National] Fund was ‘to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people.’...As early as 1891, Zionist leader Ahad Ha’am wrote that the Arabs “understood very well what we were doing and what we were aiming at’...[Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, stated] ‘We shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly’...At various locations in northern Palestine Arab farmers refused to move from land the Fund purchased from absentee owners, and the Turkish authorities, at the Fund’s request, evicted them...The indigenous Jews of Palestine also reacted negatively to Zionism. They did not see the need for a Jewish state in Palestine and did not want to exacerbate relations with the Arabs.” John Quigley, “Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice.”
     
  8. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    So a state for Israelis should NOT exist, isn't that what is being said by the 2 last posters?
     
  9. Dr Grump
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    Dr Grump Gold Member

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    ? I was one of those posters. Where in my post did I directly - hell, even indirectly - say that Israel should not exist? :eusa_think:
     
  10. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    You're correct, I jumped too quickly, but I suppose it was the definition of Zionism.

    I'm not sold on that. Besides I've had this argument with others before, nationalism and extremism is redundant. Nationalism is wrong, unless one changes the definition, doesn't matter the modifier thrown in front of it.
     

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