Wind energy, the con and cons

Discussion in 'Energy' started by mdn2000, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. mdn2000
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    I am taking the green energy supporters word that they are better educated so if they could please answer a question or two about wind turbines.

    How much electricity does an idle wind farm use?

    How much electricity does it take to start an idle wind farm?

    I have many more questions for you educated green energy windmill supporters but I will see if you people are actually really educated before I post the rest of my questions.
     
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  2. Screaming Eagle
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    Screaming Eagle Active Member

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    If they make the windmills using electricity from windmills in China would that help?
     
  3. mdn2000
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    So nice to be right and see my thread sit idle, I see about 20 environuts viewed and left slack-jawed

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  4. mdn2000
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    An idle wind farm needs electricity, how much is not told to the public and the amount used is not included in any figures.

    There are lights on top of the windmills that need to be on even when the windmills are not spinning.

    The blades need to be spun to prevent warping due to the incredible weight.

    The blades need to be spun so the drive shaft does not warp

    The blades need to be spun so that bearings supporting the weight dont get a flat spot.

    The blades need to be spun so that all those damned mechanical parts stay lubricated.

    The computer that controls the wind mill must be constantly supplied with electricity,

    The radio that communicates with the control room must be energized.

    All the motors that contol pitch, yaw, and direction of the windmill must be energized.

    Green Energy folks wont let us know how much electricity it takes.

    Green Energy supporters do not have the education to answer one question about what they support.
     
  5. kyzr
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    kyzr Gold Member

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    I'm not sure how much you researched wind power, but there are significant economic challenges. To answer your questions
    1. the electrical power needed to support an idle wind farm is minimal.
    2. rotating the blades and the shaft to keep them from warping is only a concern for the gigantic >2Mw turbines. The power needed to "bump" a blade is also minimal. You only need to rotate it a few degrees a day to keep it from developing problems.

    The entire concept of wind power is dependent upon the wind speed. In order to be profitable turbines need to be placed where the average wind speed >15m/s. That eliminates most sites. If investors put turbines where they lose money, who loses but investors?
    There is a 10-year tax credit to start the industry, it will either learn and succeed, or face reality and fold.

    Carpe Ventum ("seize the wind")
     
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  6. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    While it's impossible on a large scale, it does have a benefit to those who have the space to spare, they can typically operate when the rest of the grid is down, though at very reduced power. It would make a good back up for rural areas ... but that's about it.
     
  7. mdn2000
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    Your not sure how much I have researched wind power, this simple statement says a whole lot about KYZR, KYZR just posted in 100% Alternative energy, right under four of my posting of facts about wind energy, so to state in this thread you dont know is sloppy on KYZR's part, I understand that you posted in the other thread after this one but after reading the other thread its pretty lazy not to correct yourself here.

    KYZR may of just posted and ignored everything posted in 100% Alternative energy.

    I will have to repost here but as its plain to see when confronted with questions about energy the environuts must IGNORE AND HIDE from the facts.

    The Environuts do not care about facts, they are elitist, they are snobs, they are self centered and full of the themselves. Environuts are so full of themselves they look down on everyone but their own kind. Anyone outside there elite circle is automatically dismissed. They wont even debate, their opinion is right and if a conservative shows a fact all they see is their hatred for anyone else but themselves, even when the environut elitist is trying to appear nice their posts are condensing, preaching, assuming, bigoted, thinly disguised insults.

    The facts are always ignored and the environut relies on headlines of press releases.

    Notice Chrissy and Old Crock are absent from a thread that forces them to answer a question, Where is Cold Fusion, they all hide.

    And now KZYR posts that it dont take much energy to turn a 60 ton Nacelle, the turbine blades, the multi ton shaft that supports is, the multi ton generator, nope it dont take much energy at all to turn 1000 of these 270 ton monsters.

    270 ton is fact, www.vesta.com
     
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  8. mdn2000
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    A 270 ton Vesta windmill is fact

    Stating it dont take much to turn it is not fact, its unsubstantiated ignorant opinion.

    Calling the turning of the blades a "bump" is an ignorant purposeful fabricated lie.

    I can say I know how much research KYZR has done in regards to windmills, ZERO, NONE, NIL., proof, ignornant post.
     
  9. kyzr
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    kyzr Gold Member

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    Not to dismiss your research, but I don't think you designed too many wind turbines. Going back up your post in reverse order:
    1. your link to "vesta" is wrong. Its Vestas.
    2. The rotating blades are perfectly balanced and weigh about 20 tons, not 270
    http://www.vestas.com/Files/Filer/EN/Brochures/Vestas_V_90LOW.PDF
    3. Calling for reinforcements?? (Chrissy, Crock & cold fusion)
    4. I assume you're an environut that you are upset about incorrect "facts"? HINT: on a forum its best to post what you really know. Not what you assume.
    5. I didn't read any more than the post I corrected. If you want me to review, please cut/paste.
     
  10. mdn2000
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    KYZR,
    1. so what if my link is wrong, at least it shows I looked before I opened my mouth.
    2. I never said the blades weigh 270 tons, I am refering to total weight of the fiberglass. Further as we speak Vestas is building even a lighter windmill so most likely the information I have is a bit old. 3. Calling for reinforcements, who has actually looked into this, I am giving you facts and you want to nit pic, for what reason.
    4. On a forum its best to post what you really know, great, what are posting for, what are you sourcing, what are you explaining.
    5. I dont care if you care to correct yourself or not, other than correcting Vesta to Vestas you have offered nothing other than showing you left out a major portion of the windmill structure.

    1. Its your opinion, how much electricity is used, there is a number that is hidden from the public, to say its minimal is ignorance.

    2. calling the rotating of a structure that weighs over a 100 tons a bump is again opinion and ignorance.

    So which Vestas are your refering to?

    The V90 I am refering of the blades alone weigh 28 tons, your figure is grossly inaccurate unless we agree on which model we are speaking of.

    The Nacelle is 70 metric tons, what portion of the Nacelle is fiberglass vs steel I dont know and is not clear in the brochure.

    The hub is 18 metric tons, again steel or fiberglass portion I do not know

    The tower is 155 metric tons to 205 tons depending on if we speak of the 80 meter or the 95 meter tower. Portion of steel to fiberglass is once again unknown. The tower is tubular steel with a fiberglass shell.

    So when I state 270 tons and we convert that to metric tons am I really that far off. Maybe but as you can see my number was based on research where as I have yet to see that you researched a thing.

    But this is turning into a tit for tat where you seem to think its more important to correct vesta to vestas and offer your opinion.

    The total weight of a windmill is 200 to 300 metric tons.

    1 metric ton equals 1.1 US ton

    So do we want to get hung up on the weight, can we state at least 100 tons of fiberglass, just for arguement sake. 100 tons of steel just for arguement sake, how many tons of copper.

    I really dont care to fight and prove anyone wrong, unless its the twins, they just post through stupidity, but seriously dont you want to know what you beleive is true and accurate, dont you want to know if you support windmills as green energy you know they are really green.

    So I guess I have to grab my estimate of the BTU's need to make e-glass, is it e-glass or fiberglass.
    I need to find the number for the amount of energy to make steel, copper,
    I need to find out the companies who supply the raw materials, who owns the mines
    I need to know who is in Obama's white house, who gave him campaign money
    Which politicians own stocks in these companies and are they passing law based on stock holdings

    Instead I am stuck in a tit for tat because I stated Vesta instead of Vestas

    Instead we are going tit for tat over the weight of rotors while you ignore the hub, the tower, the nacelle.

    Have I dont more research than you. Its obvious that I have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2009

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