Will Chirac Be Able To Save EU Credibility?

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Annie, Apr 10, 2005.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Captain Ed says it so well, with links, that I'm just putting his post on.

    http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004267.php

     
  2. padisha emperor
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    padisha emperor Senior Member

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    The No is at the head of the polls, but it doesn't mean that the "NON" would win. Remember the 04-21-2002, for the french presidential elections. Lionel Jospin and Jacques Chirac were at the top of the polls, but the vote made that in fact J-M Le Pen was second, not Jospin, after the first round of election.

    And the French are not really informed. The State is taking some resolution to inform the population, there is a lot of debates on TV, between "NON" and "OUI" guys. And for the moment, i admit that the "OUI" guys are the best, the men for the No say stupid things, lies, to affraid the french population. Unfortunatly, the French are not all aware about the laws things, the constitutionnal laws, the european right. To well understand this Constitution, you have to be lawyer, jurist or law-student. i understand that the people is not the best to ratificate a such text. But it would be not democratic if France would have ratificate this Constitution with the Parliament. But the good side with the Parliament : the "OUI" wuld have win.

    Wait and see.
     
  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Well we will have to 'wait and see.' What if the non wins?
     
  4. padisha emperor
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    padisha emperor Senior Member

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    Sorry, I was not meaning we have to wait and see the result.

    The debates are more and more frequent, and the "oui" partners give best agruments. The real solution would be a final debate, watched by the whole population in age to vote (18 and older), where the arguments would be exposed. Then, people would see that the "non" camp has nothing real behind him to bash the Constitution.
    i heard Henri Emmanuaeli, a memebr of the head of the socialist party (he is against, but officially the PS is for the Constitution), and he was saying dumb things, it was awesome. A real dumbass.
    Same thing for Gilbert Collard, a famous lawyer, who is for the "non". He was saying also stupid and wrong things. But the basic citizen is not able to really know if the Collard's sentences are right or not.

    If the "non" win, it would be really sad, and really dommageable for France and Europe, it would be a step back.
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    So with these two 'dumb' speakers, have the polls been turning around?
     
  6. padisha emperor
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    padisha emperor Senior Member

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    As I said, the population is not the best to have a really good advice about this point.
    I know that when Emmanuelli said something wrong about the Human rights in the Consitution, that it is wrong, because I'm a law student. When Collard said that if the constitutionnal treaty would be adopted, the european Parliament would have not the power of initiative, for the laws.
    This seems to be a real bad thing, no ? And i understand that the population think, that with this treaty, the democracy makes a step back. But in fact, the euro-parlimanent TODAY has not the initiative. But except if people study the laws of the EU, who knows ?
    A perfect example of manipulation and demagogy.

    They said stupid things for the people who know things about the laws, but for the basic citizen, it is believable. And these guys seem to be not stupid with their arguments.
    Here is the danger.
    that's what I mentionned.
     
  7. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    So only the lawyers should decide?
     
  8. padisha emperor
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    padisha emperor Senior Member

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    If we would be pragmatic, yes, only the politicians and the jurists would have to decide (so, the parliament, the government). Why ? because these men are the most qualified to decide on a such text.
    This Treaty has a lot of hard dispositions, hard to understand, when people doesn't know some things in constitutionnal laws, european laws, and politics.

    This is why a ratification by the Parliament would have been a good thing. But it would have been a problem too : it is not democratic.
     
  9. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Padisha says, "Bring on the oligarchy! Screw democracy." Why am I not surprised?
     
  10. nosarcasm
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    nosarcasm Active Member

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    I am pretty sure one of the countries will vote no.

    The lack of democracy within the EU is appalling and
    even if the constitution might be helpful there are many
    reasons to make the will of the people known.

    For now the appointment only technocracy has avoided
    public scrutiny.
     

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