Why wasn’t OBAMA impeached and Holder sent to prison for Fast and Furious?

[colfax_m]

The operations were designed and authorized at the local ATF office and the local US attorney’s office.

Sorry, but your BS has been debunked. There are rules / regulations that prevent any 'local' law enforcement office and a local US AG from conducting an operation that would transport US firearms across the US border without a helluva lot of coordination and higher approval from agencies at the Federal level.

For example, there is no way local ATF Agent Barney Fife is going to read this national / federal program that was briefed to Bush and can bet was briefed to Obama, decide on his own that this is a great idea, and notify the local US AG's office they were going to implement it.

There is no way in hell the local US AG's office Rep, Goober Pile, is NOT going to elevate this up the chain immediately and tell the local ATF to stand-down until coordination and approval is gotten from the top.

There is no way in hell any COMPETENT professionals in this 'local' chain are going to proceed with this operation, understanding what it is and what it entails, without coordinating with the State Department, Homeland Security, FBI, CIA, Border Patrol, etc...

- We aren't talking about a local 'sting' operation where you try to sell a rocket launcher to a Drug Cartel member out of the back of a car at the local Dairy Queen parking lot....this was DELIVERING HUNDREDS of AUTOMATIC WEAPONS and HAND GRENADES across our border to MEXICAN DRUG CARTELS.

Notifying and coordinating with he State Department, Homeland Security, the Border Patrol, NSA,CIA, and FBI would have been MANDATORY....so would notifying the Mexican Govt that we were going to try to conduct a criminal operation IN THEIR F*ING COUNTRY, one in which we were going to hand over a massive amount of weapons to Drug Cartels that are a massive threat to their government.

We already know the DOJ - run by US AG Eric Holder knew about this Op. Holder's Deputy briefed as much one day (link / story already provided)...which would explain why Holder committed felony perjury and why he refused to release documents.

If Obama did NOT know and found out Holder did, you really think he is going to protect someone who BETRAYED his and did this without him knowing about it? Bwuhahahaha.....

Also, if this 'rogue' local ATF agency and a 'rogue' US AG's local office ran this Op WITHOUT coordinating with all those agencies, without getting permission, and without Obama knowing about it....and it resulted in weapons being lost, US govt-supplied guns making the Drug Cartels stronger and responsible for the murder of Mexican women and children, AND resulted in the death of US citizens ... are you seriously suggesting AFTER learning about it all Obama STILL PROTECTED THEM from serious punishment?

?!

Several ATF officials were moved around and demoted...no one went to jail.
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One last thought....the guy who was busted illegally spying on citizens, reporters, the media, US Senators, and USSC Justices...who was found in Contempt of Court for violating Federal Judges' rulings twice...who has found in violation of the Constitution no less than twice...who admittedly violated the Constitution by imposing his own federal DACA EDICT because Congress was not giving him what he wanted...would never authorize an operation that would illegally supply Mexican Drug Cartels with automatic weapons and hand grenades...right?

Bwuhahahahahahaha......

Im sorry, but I don’t know what link you’re referring to that proves Holder knew. If you’re referring to the Infowars piece, it contains no facts that demonstrate such. It’s just an article that claims it happened. Can you provide your source please?

As for “competent” people running it up the chain of command. You may be right. But these guys clearly weren’t very competent. As for protecting from consequences, the people responsible were fired as part of the IG investigation. Others were demoted or resigned. There were no charges because there were no facts that could sustain a charge.

As for the “rules” that make it necessary to coordinate. I don’t know all the technicalities of the rules, I sorta doubt you do too, but let’s say you’re right for the sake of argument. These rules, are they impossible to ignore and/or break? I doubt it.

The IG reports on this issue contradict all your allegations of “debunking”.

Since I asked you for substantive facts, I’ll provide my own.

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2012/s1209.pdf

This is what one should consider a reliable source.

Pull your head out of your ass - it's a horrible way to go through life.

Multiple links, documents, and testimony have been provided in many different threads - you act like this is the 1st one ever started on USM.



Holder was busted, caught red-handed. he committed perjury, the truth came out, and Holder refused to release documents - Obstruction.

If this is truly YOUR 1st time looking at this scandal I encourage you to do a little work, put forth a little effort, look up, open, and read some of the threads, see all the evidence provided yourself.

You can either educate yourself, or hold onto the beliefs you have already ignorantly decided to hold onto.

This is my first participation on this matter on this board. I assure you, I’m very well educated on the matter. I’ve only seen your one link to Infowars which contained no facts. If that’s the quality of information provided by your side, I think I’d save myself some time and not review old threads and sort through mountains of right wing internet misinformation.

I asked if you had reviewed any of the IG reports on the matter. Have you ever done so?

 

[berg80]

Obama was stupid, not corrupt, is actually an excuse I am reading on this board?

Are you guys fucking kidding me?

Why can’t we just use that for Trump? You guys always say he is dumb, why doesn’t he get the “stupid not corrupt” pass?

They are using that excuse for Trump. Just ask brave sir Lindsey. He claims that Trump couldn’t try to extort Ukraine because his foreign policy is too incoherent to get away with such a con.

Donald Trump Jr was too stupid to know working with Russia during the election was illegal.

Trump Sr is too stupid to know paying off someone you had an affair with a week before the election was a campaign finance violation.

Trump is too stupid to know that firing a special prosecutor constituted obstruction of justice.

The list goes on and on.

As for Obama, he had no part in Fast and Furious. It was not something that rose to the level of the president.

Odd that Obama invoked executive privilege if he had nothing to do with F&F.

Not really. It was a fishing expedition. Obama didn’t invoke executive privilege until the matter had been very thoroughly investigated. Furthermore, documents in question did not deal directly with the actual operation. Congress has subpoenaed documents detailed how the DoJ was decided how to respond to other Congressional subpoenas after the operation concluded.

Even after these documents were released, there was still no evidence Obama was involved.

So it’s only odd because you don’t know many important details.

Are you dizzy from spinning? He invoked executive privilege. I am stating a fact. Holder was held in contempt of Congress. Fact.

Obama was corrupt as fuck and you know it. He had many scandals. Spying on journalists without due process. Illegal wars that killed thousands of brown people.

Should have been impeached many many many times.

Are you blind, illiterate or just ignoring what I said because it’s inconvenient?

There’s no evidence of Obama’s involvement in fast and furious. If you can demonstrate otherwise, put up or shut up. The rest of your claims are likewise meritless.

“and you know it” is the laziest argument. Try harder.

The fact is after Holder cooperated with the congressional investigation in to F&F by supplying 7,600 documents and testifying 9 times it became clear Issa was using the investigation as an election year stunt. So Holder asked Obama to exert EP on a range of documents having little to nothing to do with F&F. This, in contrast to Trump's claim of non-existent blanket privilege regarding all documents and all testimony.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/06/20/ag.ltr.to.president.pdf

It is a matter for which Holder was exonerated by an IG investigation. There has never been a credible claim Obama was aware of F&F while it was operational since it was run out of the Phoenix ATF office.

 

[colfax_m]

They are using that excuse for Trump. Just ask brave sir Lindsey. He claims that Trump couldn’t try to extort Ukraine because his foreign policy is too incoherent to get away with such a con.

Donald Trump Jr was too stupid to know working with Russia during the election was illegal.

Trump Sr is too stupid to know paying off someone you had an affair with a week before the election was a campaign finance violation.

Trump is too stupid to know that firing a special prosecutor constituted obstruction of justice.

The list goes on and on.

As for Obama, he had no part in Fast and Furious. It was not something that rose to the level of the president.

Odd that Obama invoked executive privilege if he had nothing to do with F&F.

Not really. It was a fishing expedition. Obama didn’t invoke executive privilege until the matter had been very thoroughly investigated. Furthermore, documents in question did not deal directly with the actual operation. Congress has subpoenaed documents detailed how the DoJ was decided how to respond to other Congressional subpoenas after the operation concluded.

Even after these documents were released, there was still no evidence Obama was involved.

So it’s only odd because you don’t know many important details.

Are you dizzy from spinning? He invoked executive privilege. I am stating a fact. Holder was held in contempt of Congress. Fact.

Obama was corrupt as fuck and you know it. He had many scandals. Spying on journalists without due process. Illegal wars that killed thousands of brown people.

Should have been impeached many many many times.

Are you blind, illiterate or just ignoring what I said because it’s inconvenient?

There’s no evidence of Obama’s involvement in fast and furious. If you can demonstrate otherwise, put up or shut up. The rest of your claims are likewise meritless.

“and you know it” is the laziest argument. Try harder.

The fact is after Holder cooperated with the congressional investigation in to F&F by supplying 7,600 documents and testifying 9 times it became clear Issa was using the investigation as an election year stunt. So Holder asked Obama to exert EP on a range of documents having little to nothing to do with F&F. This, in contrast to Trump's claim of non-existent blanket privilege regarding all documents and all testimony.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/06/20/ag.ltr.to.president.pdf

It is a matter for which Holder was exonerated by an IG investigation. There has never been a credible claim Obama was aware of F&F while it was operational since it was run out of the Phoenix ATF office.

I know. But after so much time and effort was invested by the right wing trying to turn this into a huge scandal, you think they’re going to let some silly facts get in the way of the narrative?

 

[LaDairis]

Democrats abused the law to push a pro gun control agenda by lying and giving guns to dangerous people so that said dangerous people would use those guns on Americans.... and then bigots Holder and Cocksucker Obama would BAIT for GUN CONTROL....


Democrats use the taxpayer's assets to promote and enrich themselves. They did it with the FBI warrants. They did it here.

 

[wamose]

Operation Fast and Furious Fast Facts - CNN

Here, I’ll spoon feed you guys the facts.

(CNN)Here's a look at Operation Fast and Furious. From 2009-2011, the Phoenix Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), along with other partners, allowed illegal gun sales in order to track the sellers and purchasers, who were believed to be connected to Mexican drug cartels.

Facts:
During the Fast and Furious investigation, nearly 2,000 firearms were illegally purchased for $1.5 million, according to a DOJ inspector General report. Hundreds of guns were later recovered in the United States and Mexico.
In 2010, two of the weapons linked to Fast and Furious turned up near the scene of the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in the Arizona desert.
Whistleblowing led to investigations by the Senate Judiciary Committee and the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. During the House investigation, Attorney General Eric Holder was cited for contempt.


Fast and Furious was one of the operations under Project Gunrunner, part of the Department of Justice's broader National Southwest Border Counternarcotics Strategy.
Operation Fast and Furious was not the ATF's first "gun walking" investigation, which allowed illegally purchased firearms to "walk" out of gun shops. It was preceded by Operation Wide Receiver, which began in 2006.
Timeline:
October 31, 2009 - Phoenix-based ATF agents get a tip from a local gun shop about suspicious purchases of assault rifles by four individuals. The agents begin investigating whether the individuals were "straw purchasers" working for a large-scale illegal gun trafficking organization. The probe later comes to be known as Operation Fast and Furious.
December 14, 2010 - Terry is killed during a shootout in the Arizona desert. Four of the men involved in the shootout are later convicted of murder. Two other associates are later charged with conspiracy and firearms offenses in connection with the killing. The last suspect is arrested in 2017.
January 25, 2011 - The US Attorney's office in Arizona announces that 34 suspects have been indicted for firearms trafficking from the United States to Mexico. The DOJ inspector general later reports that 20 of the defendants were caught via Fast and Furious.
January 27, 2011 - Senator Chuck Grassley of the Senate Judiciary Committee sends a letter to Kenneth Melson, acting director of the ATF, regarding the agency's firearms trafficking investigation and allegations that the ATF allowed hundreds of assault weapons to be smuggled to Mexico. He notes that two of the guns may have been used by Terry's killers.
March 3, 2011 - Melson announces the formation of a panel to "review the bureau's current firearms trafficking strategies employed by field division managers and special agents."
April 1, 2011 - The House Oversight Committee issues a subpoena for ATF documents.
May 3, 2011 - Holder testifies before the House Judiciary Committee. He says that he first heard of Fast and Furious only over the past few weeks.
June 2011 - Whistleblowers testify on Capitol Hill.
July 12, 2011 - Sources tell CNN that an estimated 1,400 weapons were lost by the ATF.
July 26, 2011 - The House Oversight Committee holds a second hearing.
August 30, 2011 - The DOJ removes Melson as acting director of the ATF and he is reassigned to the Office of Legal Policy. B. Todd Jones takes Melson's place as acting director of the ATF.
October 12, 2011 - The House Oversight Committee issues a subpoena for communications from Holder and other DOJ officials related to the federal gunrunning operation.
November 8, 2011 - Holder testifies before the Senate Judiciary Committee. "This operation was flawed in its concept and flawed in its execution.," he says.
February 1, 2012 - Terry's family files a $25 million wrongful death lawsuit in federal court. The lawsuit is later dismissed.
February 2, 2012 - Holder testifies before the House Oversight Committee. He says that DOJ officials will be held accountable for Fast and Furious.
June 12, 2012 - Holder rejects calls for his resignation from Republicans during a House Oversight Committee hearing.
June 20, 2012 - Republicans on the House Oversight Committee recommend that Holder be cited for contempt of Congress for failing to turn over documents relating to Fast and Furious. They make the recommendation after President Barack Obamaasserts executive privilege over some documents sought by the committee.
June 28, 2012 - The House of Representatives votes 255-67 to hold Holder in criminal contempt of Congress. This is the first time in American history that the head of the Justice Department has been held in contempt by Congress.
July 6, 2012 - The White House and the DOJ announce that Holder will not face criminal prosecution under the contempt of Congress citation.
July 31, 2012 - The first of a three-part joint Congressional report is released. The report prompts the resignation of William Hoover, the deputy director of the ATF.
August 13, 2012 - The House Oversight Committee files a civil lawsuit against Holder over Fast and Furious documents. On January 19, 2016, a federal judge orders the DOJ to release thousands of pages of documents.
September 19, 2012 - The DOJ Inspector General releases a report on the operation, concluding that Holder was not informed of Fast and Furious until 2011.The inspector general finds 14 employees of the ATF and the DOJ responsible for management failures. After the report is released, Melson retires and a deputy assistant attorney general resigns.
October 29, 2012 - The second part of a three-part joint Congressional report is released.
December 12, 2012 - The DOJ announces that a gun trafficker, Jaime Avila has been sentenced to 57 months in prison for his role in buying weapons that were found at the site of Terry's shooting death.
February 10, 2014 - Manuel Osorio-Arellanes is sentenced to 30 years in prison for first-degree murder, in connection with Terry's death.
November 3, 2014 - Under court order, the Justice Department turns over nearly 65,000 pages of Fast and Furious-related documents. The documents were previously withheld under the Obama administration's claim of executive privilege.
October 1, 2015 - Two additional suspects in Terry's death, Jesus Leonel Sanchez-Meza and Ivan Soto-Barraza, are found guilty of first-degree murder and other charges. They later receive life sentences.
April 8, 2016 - The DOJ releases additional documents pertaining to Fast and Furious, as ordered by a federal judge.
April 12, 2017 - Heraclio Osorio-Arellanes, a fugitive cartel member wanted in connection with Terry's death, is arrested in Mexico. He is later found guilty of first-degree murder and other charges.
June 7, 2017 - The third part of the Congressional report is published.
October 2017 - Jesus Rosario Favela-Astorga, the last of seven suspects wanted in connection with Terry's death, is arrested in Mexico.
May 8, 2019 - The House and the Justice Department announce to a federal appeals court that they reached a settlement in the Operation Fast and Furious court case on April 10, 2019. In the deal, both sides state that they are abandoning their appeals and lawsuit despite disagreeing with the prior court's orders.

Quite a big difference between Obama's administration and power and Trumps. Trump would be impeached on a hang nail and Obama can be responsible for several deaths and improprieties of his AG and still be considered a Messiah.

Obama was definitely a candidate for impeachment and his AG buddy should have ended up in jail. They both committed actual crimes and were a danger to our government. The only thing that saved them were the rigged media smoothing everything over and the sheer number of gullible ignoramuses they have for followers.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Lefties know they are hypocrites when it comes to Obama’s scandals.

 

[Dr Grump]

Happy New Year....nothing has changed. Snowflakes are still butt-hurt reality / fact-denying, liberal progressive socialist democrat propaganda talking points parroting, easily emotionally manipulated, sheep....and Jonathon Gruber is still impressed with and thankful for you.

Butt hurt? I'm laughing at the US...unfortunately. Tell me something, is it some sort of test that every president since Ronnie Raygun (with the exception of Bush Snr and Obama) is hell bent on getting the US into some sort or war or other? Is it some sort of right of passage?