Why Trump SHOULD have asked Ukraine for help investigating Biden

In gist:

1) Biden is NOT immune from investigation of possible criminal conduct while he served in a position of high trust---Vice President---just because he is now running for President.

2) There is more than enough evidence---in the form of Biden's on admissions ON TAPE of a quid pro quo---to start an investigation into possible criminal conduct while he served in said position of high trust.

It would have been far better if Barr and Durham worked with Ukraine quietly, behind the scenes, and not announce anything until they have adequate proof of any crimes.

This is what happened when a leader operates like a dictator. His gangsters probably scared of him to go against his idea.

This could have been done very easily. Actually I’m very disappointed how these been handled from the start. It shows how inept and amateur these people are.

Totally agree, except here when a CEO or company exec starts barking commands he's more properly called a "micro-manager", not dictator. Most of the time their work turns to shit because they are outside their area of expertise. Trump may be a "micro-manager" but he doesn't have the experience needed to bulldoze his senior experts. I hope he brings General Kelly back to tell him "NFW" every so often.
Look at the Boeing 737max fiasco. I would bet as much as you want that some AH manager bulldozed that project over the objections of senior experts, and then when it went sideways, the CEO got fired.
 
No. 3. He interfered in the internal affairs of another country.

That's fucking awesome! Good God, interfering in another countries internal affairs is not impeachable. We do that shit all the time. What we don't do is to strong arm another country( by using the bipartisan foreign aid Congress approved and allocated as a bribe) into interfering in our internal affairs. That's what Trumpybear tried to do. It's why he is impeached, and it's why the Trumpublicans will be shellacked in the fall.

Good luck with your propaganda peddling.
These days being from the opposite party is automatically impeachable
 
Trump is the head of the Executive which is charged with enforcing the Laws---including the criminal laws...and sometimes, when some evidence of law-breaking is, or could be, in the hands of a foreign government, it takes more than an FBI Agent flying over for a look. Sometimes it takes a request for help from one government head to another.

That is the case with Trump and Ukraine and Biden.

Now, while Uncle Joe Biden has the Pravda-like Media shilling for him, using The Big Lie from Nazi Germany days, he is in fact on a video tape bragging about how he interfered in the private affairs of Ukraine and demanded and got a quid pro quo---the firing of Ukraine's equivalent of the Attorney General in exchange for U. S. Taxpayer Money.

He is on Tape. If you Bolshevik Numbskulls haven't seen, it is because you are watching one of the Pravda-like Shills in the Media. As they work for the Democrat/Socialists they would like to hide the tape.

Their other approaches, variations of The Big Lie are:

IT Has Been Debunked--- a Big Lie very often used by the New York Media

Any wrongdoing by Democrats more than 3 months old is always deemed DEBUNKED if not reported on night and day---and if it negatively affects Democrats---it is NEVER reported on!

Then there is:

Everybody wanted the Ukrainian Prosecutor fired, because he was corrupt, and he wasn't doing anything about investigating Hunter Biden's corrupt company.

This is repeatedly reported by the FAKE NEWS, but it is never proven.

However, John Solomon documents just the opposite in the below article:

Joe Biden’s ‘conspiracy theory’ memo to U.S. media doesn’t match the facts | John Solomon Reports

Solomon says:

"Here are the facts, with links to public evidence {in the article}, so you can decide for yourself.

Fact: Joe Biden admitted to forcing Shokin’s firing in March 2016.

Fact: Shokin’s prosecutors were actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Fact: Burisma’s lawyers in 2016 were pressing U.S. and Ukrainian authorities to end the corruption investigations.

Fact: There is substantial evidence Joe Biden and his office knew about the Burisma probe and his son’s role as a board member.

Fact: Federal Ethics rules requires government officials to avoid taking policy actions affecting close relatives.


Fact: Multiple State Department officials testified the Bidens’ dealings in Ukraine created the appearance of a conflict of interest.

________

Trump was right to ask for help in further investigating the above possibly criminal conduct by then VP Joe Biden! It was his Job!

Truth: Joe Biden is cooked--assuming Alzheimer's doesn't get him first!

There is a very long thread about this topic already.

Here’s the the problem Mr. Op. Coming from a conspirator creator John Solomon is not much to support your claim.

Let me repeat what I’ve posted and so are other members here that do not support Trump corruption and try to rape our democracy by asking a foreign leader to dig dirt against his political enemies.

Since when that is acceptable?

1. Biden fired Shokin a well known corrupted prosecutor general in Ukraine. There was a Ukrainian rally against Shokin. Firing of Shokin was supported by IMF, Republicans and western allies.

2. Shokin never investigate Burisma or even actively when Hunter joined Burisma. Owner of Burisma was heavily involved in money laundering before Hunter joined Burisma.

3. Biden bragged firing Shokin. Where is the corruption committed?

So your claimed that Bidens committed any corruption is totally false. Except from a conspiracy creator John Solomon.

Talking about corruption? Biden tax returns are available. Trump hide his tax returns, he paid $25million for his fake Trump university and recently ordered to pay $2 millions for his fraudulent Trump foundation.
Any questions?
______

No proof of any of your allegations--that is No. 1 & 2. Just YOUR allegations. Solomon backed his up. You don't.

No. 3. He interfered in the internal affairs of another country. You assume he had a good reason, but nothing has been supplied other than your uncorroborated allegations. There must be more, and better---such as Solomon has supplied, and he gives reasons why Biden's were corrupt.

You do get to believe what you want. So do I. Solomon is far more believable than you, an obvious dumb-ass---because he backs his allegations up. You are not.

The Pussy Hat World is only for those with Trump Derangement Syndrome. You can live in it, but you look very foolish...and you really look foolish when you expect others to abandon Reality just because your biases have led you to do so.

____

_____

Dude I don’t lie. You can look it up yourself. How can I be look like foolish when I’m telling you are just facts?

1 and 2. Instead of giving me your opinion that do not support anything but coming from Solomon. Why don’t you prove it? Solomon is nothing but a conspiracy theory crap BS creator. Did you even read or look his previous conspiracy theory crap?

Solomon backed it up? BS. By working with Shokin a very well known corrupted prosecutor general in Ukraine. So what do you expect from corrupted people. Is that supposed to be credible? His back up is Shokin. That makes me laugh. This is like working with Einstein or Weinstein denying rapes.

3. Biden. He entered internal affairs of another country? That is Biden’s job. Do you even know why? You have no single iaota of proof Biden committed any wrongdoing. Zero None. Except from Solomon.

Just imagine if we believed everything what comes out from conspiracy crap creator like Solomon. Like Trump promoting QAnon. Do you know what Qanon is?


I gave you several examples of Trump proved he is a corrupted disgusting dishonest person president. You ignored it. And you call me foolish?
 
The President has an obligation to ask about corruption in any country we are giving aid to. Since Biden and his son appear to have been involved in corrupt dealings with Ukraine, it was perfectly appropriate to ask that country to look into it. Since when does being a "political rival" confer immunity from investigation?

Since when pressuring a new elected foreign president help dig dirt against his political enemies is acceptable?

At the same time he violated the law by with holding military aids to a country that is needed for military aids.

Biden and his son never committed any wrongdoing or any corruption. You have none nothing to prove that. Except from conspiracy crap BS created by Solomon.
 
Ukraine IS doing an investigation. Just not the one that fat idiot Donnie wants.

Link please. Not sure what you're talking about.
Trump thinks Z is doing a good job?!

Ukraine probing possible surveillance of ex-US Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, - CNNPolitics
Ukraine police investigating possible surveillance of Yovanovitch, Russian hacking

Mutually exclusive and you cited CNN...FAKE NEWS.

FAKE NEWS? Do you have anything to prove it’s fake?
I do


LOL....... Do you honestly expect that to supposed be believable? All those claimed by that dude is laughable.

Did you even watch? That Dude repeatedly said ...... they retracted that they retracted that...... ..... So that is called CNN honesty.



How about Fox News and Trump well publicized big time?

1. About Obama spied and install bugs in Trump tower?

2. Uranium One.

Those were all proven false by his own Trump investigators. Those are very good examples of fake news. Did fox apologies?


I watch Fox News a Trump News media also. Do you know when Hannity or other Fox News dedicated to Trumpy lied?
Hannity will claimed New Revelation like a very big news. If it’s a very big news. Like Guilliani went to Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden. It’s NOT shown any where else in Fox News network. None. Only in Hannity or sometimes Carlson. Why is that?
 
In gist:

1) Biden is NOT immune from investigation of possible criminal conduct while he served in a position of high trust---Vice President---just because he is now running for President.

2) There is more than enough evidence---in the form of Biden's on admissions ON TAPE of a quid pro quo---to start an investigation into possible criminal conduct while he served in said position of high trust.

It would have been far better if Barr and Durham worked with Ukraine quietly, behind the scenes, and not announce anything until they have adequate proof of any crimes.

This is what happened when a leader operates like a dictator. His gangsters probably scared of him to go against his idea.

This could have been done very easily. Actually I’m very disappointed how these been handled from the start. It shows how inept and amateur these people are.

Totally agree, except here when a CEO or company exec starts barking commands he's more properly called a "micro-manager", not dictator. Most of the time their work turns to shit because they are outside their area of expertise. Trump may be a "micro-manager" but he doesn't have the experience needed to bulldoze his senior experts. I hope he brings General Kelly back to tell him "NFW" every so often.
Look at the Boeing 737max fiasco. I would bet as much as you want that some AH manager bulldozed that project over the objections of senior experts, and then when it went sideways, the CEO got fired.

Running a business like Boeing and running a a country is totally different animals.

Let me rephrase the dictator. Any one or anybody that disagrees with Trump is a bad dude. The whole group in that people involved with trump corruption asking to dig dirt against his political rival are probably scared. Not a single one disagrees. Even Barr.
With the chaos and discombobulations I don’t think Trump is listening to anybody. They could NOT be this inept and amateur.

I own my business. I’m also a CEO.
 


LOL....... Do you honestly expect that to supposed be believable? All those claimed by that dude is laughable.

Did you even watch? That Dude repeatedly said ...... they retracted that they retracted that...... ..... So that is called CNN honesty.



How about Fox News and Trump well publicized big time?

1. About Obama spied and install bugs in Trump tower?

2. Uranium One.

Those were all proven false by his own Trump investigators. Those are very good examples of fake news. Did fox apologies?


I watch Fox News a Trump News media also. Do you know when Hannity or other Fox News dedicated to Trumpy lied?
Hannity will claimed New Revelation like a very big news. If it’s a very big news. Like Guilliani went to Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden. It’s NOT shown any where else in Fox News network. None. Only in Hannity or sometimes Carlson. Why is that?


Did you watch? I did. Retracted because initially they reported FAKE NEWS. I do not watch Fox or CNN. You're just a triggered Leftist. You asked for proof and I gave you proof. Now you move the goal posts. Do you want to discuss Fox now? We can do that. Fox is biased toward the Right. Very much so. CNN is biased toward the Left. Very much so.

I am an Independent. I never have and never will belong to a political party. I have bashed the Alt Right on this site endlessly. Try to keep up.

Thank you.
 
Here’s where Ukrainian trashed corrupted Shokin.


Ukrainian Protesters Demand Dismissal Of Prosecutor-General

Shokin’s deputy, Vitaliy Kasko, resigned last month, accusing Shokin and his office of being a "hotbed of corruption."Shokin's office dismissed the claim as a publicity stunt.

U.S. and European diplomats have publicly called for Shokin's dismissal, and a top U.S. State Department official whose area of responsibility includes Ukraine earlier this month publicly called for him to go.
 


LOL....... Do you honestly expect that to supposed be believable? All those claimed by that dude is laughable.

Did you even watch? That Dude repeatedly said ...... they retracted that they retracted that...... ..... So that is called CNN honesty.



How about Fox News and Trump well publicized big time?

1. About Obama spied and install bugs in Trump tower?

2. Uranium One.

Those were all proven false by his own Trump investigators. Those are very good examples of fake news. Did fox apologies?


I watch Fox News a Trump News media also. Do you know when Hannity or other Fox News dedicated to Trumpy lied?
Hannity will claimed New Revelation like a very big news. If it’s a very big news. Like Guilliani went to Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden. It’s NOT shown any where else in Fox News network. None. Only in Hannity or sometimes Carlson. Why is that?


Did you watch? I did. Retracted because initially they reported FAKE NEWS. I do not watch Fox or CNN. You're just a triggered Leftist. You asked for proof and I gave you proof. Now you move the goal posts. Do you want to discuss Fox now? We can do that. Fox is biased toward the Right. Very much so. CNN is biased toward the Left. Very much so.

I am an Independent. I never have and never will belong to a political party. I have bashed the Alt Right on this site endlessly. Try to keep up.

Thank you.


So why bother to give me a fake proof?

Why do you support any of that fake news ...... fake news....... fake news in the first place?

When you make a statement fake news, Mean only one thing a Trumpy supporters. That’s a fact.

All I’m telling you are straight facts. Nothing more.
 
Ok, here's another question: why shokin? Or at least why ONLY shokin? There are a lot of corrupt people in ukraine, and a lot of corrupt people in the ukraine government, so, why did biden request only shokin be fired. If his goal was to ensure corruption was addressed before handing over 1 billion, there is probably a list of people he could have given whom should have been fired.
 
Mutually exclusive and you cited CNN...FAKE NEWS.

FAKE NEWS? Do you have anything to prove it’s fake?
I do


LOL....... Do you honestly expect that to supposed be believable? All those claimed by that dude is laughable.

Did you even watch? That Dude repeatedly said ...... they retracted that they retracted that...... ..... So that is called CNN honesty.



How about Fox News and Trump well publicized big time?

1. About Obama spied and install bugs in Trump tower?

2. Uranium One.

Those were all proven false by his own Trump investigators. Those are very good examples of fake news. Did fox apologies?


I watch Fox News a Trump News media also. Do you know when Hannity or other Fox News dedicated to Trumpy lied?
Hannity will claimed New Revelation like a very big news. If it’s a very big news. Like Guilliani went to Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden. It’s NOT shown any where else in Fox News network. None. Only in Hannity or sometimes Carlson. Why is that?


Did you watch? I did. Retracted because initially they reported FAKE NEWS. I do not watch Fox or CNN. You're just a triggered Leftist. You asked for proof and I gave you proof. Now you move the goal posts. Do you want to discuss Fox now? We can do that. Fox is biased toward the Right. Very much so. CNN is biased toward the Left. Very much so.

I am an Independent. I never have and never will belong to a political party. I have bashed the Alt Right on this site endlessly. Try to keep up.

Thank you.


So why bother to give me a fake proof?

Why do you support any of that fake news ...... fake news....... fake news in the first place?

When you make a statement fake news, Mean only one thing a Trumpy supporters. That’s a fact.

All I’m telling you are straight facts. Nothing more.

You’re a partisan Leftist. You would not know a fact it bit you in the ass.
 
In gist:

1) Biden is NOT immune from investigation of possible criminal conduct while he served in a position of high trust---Vice President---just because he is now running for President.

2) There is more than enough evidence---in the form of Biden's on admissions ON TAPE of a quid pro quo---to start an investigation into possible criminal conduct while he served in said position of high trust.

It would have been far better if Barr and Durham worked with Ukraine quietly, behind the scenes, and not announce anything until they have adequate proof of any crimes.

This is what happened when a leader operates like a dictator. His gangsters probably scared of him to go against his idea.

This could have been done very easily. Actually I’m very disappointed how these been handled from the start. It shows how inept and amateur these people are.

Totally agree, except here when a CEO or company exec starts barking commands he's more properly called a "micro-manager", not dictator. Most of the time their work turns to shit because they are outside their area of expertise. Trump may be a "micro-manager" but he doesn't have the experience needed to bulldoze his senior experts. I hope he brings General Kelly back to tell him "NFW" every so often.
Look at the Boeing 737max fiasco. I would bet as much as you want that some AH manager bulldozed that project over the objections of senior experts, and then when it went sideways, the CEO got fired.

Running a business like Boeing and running a a country is totally different animals.

Let me rephrase the dictator. Any one or anybody that disagrees with Trump is a bad dude. The whole group in that people involved with trump corruption asking to dig dirt against his political rival are probably scared. Not a single one disagrees. Even Barr.
With the chaos and discombobulations I don’t think Trump is listening to anybody. They could NOT be this inept and amateur.

I own my business. I’m also a CEO.

We're honored you associate with the riff-raff here on the USMB, thanks!
Trump just doesn't get the limitations he has as president. He's used to barking orders and making things happen. Luckily the Fed government has lots of guardrails.
Totally agree running a Corporation (or Empire in Trump's case) The Trump Organization - Wikipedia is different that running the Federal government.
That said, someone who never even ran a lemonade stand, like Obama, is not a good fit either. Too much "community organizing" bullshit.

Dubya was an idiot, and Cheney was an even bigger idiot.
Bubba Clinton, Bush-1, Ron Reagan, Carter, Nixon, none of them were presidential timber.


The ones that are "presidential timber" and might make great presidents, if they could ever stop themselves from enriching themselves, would be like: Steve Bechtel, Lee Iacocca, Ginni Rometti, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Trump, Bloomburg, Mark Cuban, but the presidency is apparently too much work and responsibility and too little pay. Or they don't have the ambition to fund a wide ranging political organization? Would they be populists or globalists?
 
Trump is the head of the Executive which is charged with enforcing the Laws---including the criminal laws...and sometimes, when some evidence of law-breaking is, or could be, in the hands of a foreign government, it takes more than an FBI Agent flying over for a look. Sometimes it takes a request for help from one government head to another.

That is the case with Trump and Ukraine and Biden.

Now, while Uncle Joe Biden has the Pravda-like Media shilling for him, using The Big Lie from Nazi Germany days, he is in fact on a video tape bragging about how he interfered in the private affairs of Ukraine and demanded and got a quid pro quo---the firing of Ukraine's equivalent of the Attorney General in exchange for U. S. Taxpayer Money.

He is on Tape. If you Bolshevik Numbskulls haven't seen, it is because you are watching one of the Pravda-like Shills in the Media. As they work for the Democrat/Socialists they would like to hide the tape.

Their other approaches, variations of The Big Lie are:

IT Has Been Debunked--- a Big Lie very often used by the New York Media

Any wrongdoing by Democrats more than 3 months old is always deemed DEBUNKED if not reported on night and day---and if it negatively affects Democrats---it is NEVER reported on!

Then there is:

Everybody wanted the Ukrainian Prosecutor fired, because he was corrupt, and he wasn't doing anything about investigating Hunter Biden's corrupt company.

This is repeatedly reported by the FAKE NEWS, but it is never proven.

However, John Solomon documents just the opposite in the below article:

Joe Biden’s ‘conspiracy theory’ memo to U.S. media doesn’t match the facts | John Solomon Reports

Solomon says:

"Here are the facts, with links to public evidence {in the article}, so you can decide for yourself.

Fact: Joe Biden admitted to forcing Shokin’s firing in March 2016.

Fact: Shokin’s prosecutors were actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Fact: Burisma’s lawyers in 2016 were pressing U.S. and Ukrainian authorities to end the corruption investigations.

Fact: There is substantial evidence Joe Biden and his office knew about the Burisma probe and his son’s role as a board member.

Fact: Federal Ethics rules requires government officials to avoid taking policy actions affecting close relatives.


Fact: Multiple State Department officials testified the Bidens’ dealings in Ukraine created the appearance of a conflict of interest.

________

Trump was right to ask for help in further investigating the above possibly criminal conduct by then VP Joe Biden! It was his Job!

Truth: Joe Biden is cooked--assuming Alzheimer's doesn't get him first!


IRS is in charge of investigating tax fraud . So it was perfectly fine for Louis Lerner to investigate tea party conservative groups .
 
Trump is the head of the Executive which is charged with enforcing the Laws---including the criminal laws...and sometimes, when some evidence of law-breaking is, or could be, in the hands of a foreign government, it takes more than an FBI Agent flying over for a look. Sometimes it takes a request for help from one government head to another.

That is the case with Trump and Ukraine and Biden.

Now, while Uncle Joe Biden has the Pravda-like Media shilling for him, using The Big Lie from Nazi Germany days, he is in fact on a video tape bragging about how he interfered in the private affairs of Ukraine and demanded and got a quid pro quo---the firing of Ukraine's equivalent of the Attorney General in exchange for U. S. Taxpayer Money.

He is on Tape. If you Bolshevik Numbskulls haven't seen, it is because you are watching one of the Pravda-like Shills in the Media. As they work for the Democrat/Socialists they would like to hide the tape.

Their other approaches, variations of The Big Lie are:

IT Has Been Debunked--- a Big Lie very often used by the New York Media

Any wrongdoing by Democrats more than 3 months old is always deemed DEBUNKED if not reported on night and day---and if it negatively affects Democrats---it is NEVER reported on!

Then there is:

Everybody wanted the Ukrainian Prosecutor fired, because he was corrupt, and he wasn't doing anything about investigating Hunter Biden's corrupt company.

This is repeatedly reported by the FAKE NEWS, but it is never proven.

However, John Solomon documents just the opposite in the below article:

Joe Biden’s ‘conspiracy theory’ memo to U.S. media doesn’t match the facts | John Solomon Reports

Solomon says:

"Here are the facts, with links to public evidence {in the article}, so you can decide for yourself.

Fact: Joe Biden admitted to forcing Shokin’s firing in March 2016.

Fact: Shokin’s prosecutors were actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Fact: Burisma’s lawyers in 2016 were pressing U.S. and Ukrainian authorities to end the corruption investigations.

Fact: There is substantial evidence Joe Biden and his office knew about the Burisma probe and his son’s role as a board member.

Fact: Federal Ethics rules requires government officials to avoid taking policy actions affecting close relatives.


Fact: Multiple State Department officials testified the Bidens’ dealings in Ukraine created the appearance of a conflict of interest.

________

Trump was right to ask for help in further investigating the above possibly criminal conduct by then VP Joe Biden! It was his Job!

Truth: Joe Biden is cooked--assuming Alzheimer's doesn't get him first!

Donald Trump provided no evidence of any wrongdoing. If there was any evidence of it then the DOJ could have opened a investigation. However the DOJ has to have enough evidence to open a investigation. The fact that the DOJ has not opened one shows that there is no evidence. There was no basis for a investigation into Biden.

The Obama Administration pressured Ukraine to fire a corrupt prosecutor before American aid was sent to Ukraine. That was official US policy and one that was supported by the world community and Ukrainians.

John Solomon is a fake news slop artisrt. He is not a real journalist. He is not a honest source. The fact is that Ukrainians knew he was corrupt and wanted him out as well.

Ukrainian Protesters Demand Dismissal Of Prosecutor-General

Old Letter Proves GOP Senators Echoed, Amplified Biden’s Call to Oust Ukraine’s Chief Prosecutor





Daria Kaleniuk

@dkaleniuk


Replying to
@OliverBullough
Thank you
@OliverBullough
- indeed it’s insane to use UKRAINE as a ball at the AMERICAN national political field. Prosecutor Shokin did not open the case on Zlochevskyi & Burisma. He dumped it. And he was fired for being corrupt and failing prosecution reform
@kenvogel
3:52 PM · May 2, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

The evidence is overwhelming that Shokin was corrupt. Giuliani interviewed Shokin and turned over the results to the DOJ. Clearly that went over with a thud.

Here are the facts.

FACT: Shokin was not investigating Burisma when the Obama Administration demanded the corrupt Shokin be fired before American aid was sent.

FACT: Hunter Biden was NEVER under investigation.

FACT: The demand that Biden relayed had no effect on Hunter Biden.

FACT: Hunter Biden and Barack Obama are not related
 
In gist:

1) Biden is NOT immune from investigation of possible criminal conduct while he served in a position of high trust---Vice President---just because he is now running for President.

2) There is more than enough evidence---in the form of Biden's on admissions ON TAPE of a quid pro quo---to start an investigation into possible criminal conduct while he served in said position of high trust.

1. There is no evidence of criminal conduct by Biden.

2. Biden did not admit to any quid pro quo. There is no evidence to start a criminal investigation.
 
The President has an obligation to ask about corruption in any country we are giving aid to. Since Biden and his son appear to have been involved in corrupt dealings with Ukraine, it was perfectly appropriate to ask that country to look into it. Since when does being a "political rival" confer immunity from investigation?

There is no evidence that Biden and his son were involved in any corruption.
 

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