Why is the Korean war so forgotten?

[georgephillip]

War criminals? Truman was a timid fool and MacArthur was an egomaniac who might have suffered from dementia but they were hardly war criminals

MacArthur and Truman could argue they had UNSC authorization to intervene in Korea so in that sense they were not technically war criminals; however, both Americans were intervening in matters the Koreans were perfectly capable solving for themselves.
"On 25 June 1950, the United Nations Security Council unanimously condemned the North Korean invasion of the Republic of Korea, with UN Security Council Resolution 82. The Soviet Union, aveto-wielding power, had boycotted the Council meetings since January 1950, protesting that theRepublic of China (Taiwan), not the People's Republic of China, held a permanent seat in the UN Security Council."
Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

he media called it the "forgotten war" because they refused to cover the negligent leadership that turned victory in a year into little more than defeat in three years with the total loss of American Troops during the Korean War years of 50,000.

The media also forgot the fact North Korea lost one-third of its total population (military AND civilian) because of US intervention. Would you regard a similar kill rate in your neighborhood as a war crime?

 

[whitehall]

War criminals? Truman was a timid fool and MacArthur was an egomaniac who might have suffered from dementia but they were hardly war criminals

MacArthur and Truman could argue they had UNSC authorization to intervene in Korea so in that sense they were not technically war criminals; however, both Americans were intervening in matters the Koreans were perfectly capable solving for themselves.
"On 25 June 1950, the United Nations Security Council unanimously condemned the North Korean invasion of the Republic of Korea, with UN Security Council Resolution 82. The Soviet Union, aveto-wielding power, had boycotted the Council meetings since January 1950, protesting that theRepublic of China (Taiwan), not the People's Republic of China, held a permanent seat in the UN Security Council."
Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Before MacArthur's daring Inchon landing the UN/US forces were practically pinned down on the furthermost point of the Korean peninsula. That tells us that South Korea was incapable of defending itself alone. Technically he US acted under the UN banner so the defense of South Korea was "legal". The problem was that Truman bypassed congress and violated US law (not international law) by sending American forces into battle under an executive order.

 

[georgephillip]

Before MacArthur's daring Inchon landing the UN/US forces were practically pinned down on the furthermost point of the Korean peninsula. That tells us that South Korea was incapable of defending itself alone.

We are talking past each other (again.)
I'm not disputing MacArthur's leadership abilities or the courage of those who made Inchon work in 1950, but I am saying the Korean War would not have been necessary if the US had not occupied South Korea in 1945.

For the sake of argument, if you became convinced of the following two historical allegations, would your opinion of MacArthur and Inchon change?

1. The Soviets liberated northern Korea one month before US forces arrived in 1945. They contacted their US allies who requested the Soviets stop their advance at the 38th Parallel, and the Soviets complied.

2. When the Americans took charge in August the Japanese had already turned over control of southern Korea to the Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence lead by Lyuh Woon-hyung. The US promptly ordered Japanese troops to remain at their posts and within a year banned all public demonstrations in favor of Korean Independence.

A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[whitehall]

Before MacArthur's daring Inchon landing the UN/US forces were practically pinned down on the furthermost point of the Korean peninsula. That tells us that South Korea was incapable of defending itself alone.

We are talking past each other (again.)
I'm not disputing MacArthur's leadership abilities or the courage of those who made Inchon work in 1950, but I am saying the Korean War would not have been necessary if the US had not occupied South Korea in 1945.

For the sake of argument, if you became convinced of the following two historical allegations, would your opinion of MacArthur and Inchon change?

1. The Soviets liberated northern Korea one month before US forces arrived in 1945. They contacted their US allies who requested the Soviets stop their advance at the 38th Parallel, and the Soviets complied.

2. When the Americans took charge in August the Japanese had already turned over control of southern Korea to the Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence lead by Lyuh Woon-hyung. The US promptly ordered Japanese troops to remain at their posts and within a year banned all public demonstrations in favor of Korean Independence.

A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

How does that make Truman and MacArthur war criminals? By 1950 South Korea was well established as a democratically elected free society. The Russian backed North Koreans were the aggressors and American Troops kicked their asses all the way back beyond the 38th parallel taking the NK capital of Pyongyang. Truman should have declared "mission accomplished" and drawn a line across to Wonson Harbor and posted troops. Why Truman allowed MacArthur to expand the mission with exhausted ill supplied Troops with winter coming on in an area known for severe winters can only be chalked up to gross incompetence and border line insanity. Red China told Truman that they would enter the war on the side of the North Koreans if Americans approached the Yalu River border but the aging WW1 general disregarded the warning. The only way the media could downplay both Truman's incompetence and MacArthur's episode of dementia was to call it the "forgotten war" and forget about it.

 

[georgephillip]

How does that make Truman and MacArthur war criminals? By 1950 South Korea was well established as a democratically elected free society

South Korea was a military dictatorship ruled over by a US puppet named Syngman Rhee in 1950.

"On 8 September 1945, U.S. Lt. Gen. John R. Hodge arrived in Incheon to accept the Japanese surrender south of the 38th parallel.[55]

"Appointed as military governor, General Hodge directly controlled South Korea as head of the United States Army Military Government in Korea(USAMGIK 1945–48).[58]

"He established control by restoring to power the key Japanese colonial administrators, but in the face of Korean protests he quickly reversed this decision.[59]

"The USAMGIK refused to recognize the provisional government of the short-lived People's Republic of Korea (PRK) because it suspected it was communist."

You know you are not living in a "well established democracy" when a foreign general dictates who you can vote for in free elections.

Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

Truman should have declared "mission accomplished" and drawn a line across to Wonson Harbor and posted troops. Why Truman allowe

How many troops should Harry have posted?
"The Chinese counterattacked in April 1951, with the Fifth Phase Offensive, also known as the Chinese Spring Offensive, with three field armies (approximately 700,000 men).
Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Harry should have allowed Korea to reunite in 1945, saving millions of lives even if the US economy slipped back into recession.
"6. In August 1945 defeated Japanese forces formally turned over authority in Korea to the broad-based Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence, led by Lyuh Woon-hyung, which in September proclaimed the Korean People’s Republic (KPR). When U.S. forces under Gen. Reed Hodge arrived in Inchon to accept the Japanese surrender, they

a. ordered all Japanese officials to remain in their posts, refused to recognize Lyuh as national leader, and soon banned all public reference to the KPR

b. recognized Lyuh as the legitimate head of state

c. negotiated with Lyuh to facilitate swift attainment of independence of a united Korea

A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[whitehall]

During the last 18th months of the "War" timid Harry Truman ordered American (UN) Troops not to engage the enemy and to take up defensive positions hoping that the "peace talks" would end the conflict and Russia wouldn't actively enter the war on the NK side . Americans continued to be killed taking useless outposts that they soon abandoned. The media which coined the phrase "the forgotten war" became bored with the stupid tactic and forgot about it. While amateur American negotiators were ernestly considering NK/Chinese demands matter how ludicrous, a phrase circulating among the Troops at the time says it all, "to die for a tie"

 

[georgephillip]

While amateur American negotiators were ernestly considering NK/Chinese demands matter how ludicrous, a phrase circulating among the Troops at the time says it all, "to die for a tie"

If FDR had lived another three months, Henry Wallace would have become president and the troops would never have occupied Korea and died. You might want to consider how losing one third of your entire population might have instigated some of North Korea's "ludicrous" demands.

 

[whitehall]

While amateur American negotiators were ernestly considering NK/Chinese demands matter how ludicrous, a phrase circulating among the Troops at the time says it all, "to die for a tie"

If FDR had lived another three months, Henry Wallace would have become president and the troops would never have occupied Korea and died. You might want to consider how losing one third of your entire population might have instigated some of North Korea's "ludicrous" demands.

NK invaded South Korea. Democrats dumped Henry Wallace from the ticket in FDR's 4th term. How could three months make a difference? Here's the deal, Truman made the right decision but violated the law by not consulting with Congress and that made Korea Truman's responsibility. His second mistake was appointing MacArthur as the supreme commander and not paying attention to China's warning that it would enter the conflict if the US approached the Yalu river border. MacArthur's ego trip and Truman's negligence turned victory into a truce and resulted in the wasted deaths of thousands of American Troops. Truman's negligence is still felt in the crazy N.K. regime and Troops that have been posted on the 38th parallel for 60 years.

 

[georgephillip]

NK invaded South Korea. Democrats dumped Henry Wallace from the ticket in FDR's 4th term. How could three months make a difference?

"After Wallace feuded publicly with Jesse H. Jones and other high officials, Roosevelt stripped him of his war agency responsibilities.[citation needed] Although a Gallup poll taken just before the 1944 Democratic National Convention, found 65% of those surveyed, favoured renomination for Wallace and only 2% favoured his eventual opponent, Harry S. Truman, it was Truman who went on to win the vice presidential nomination.[32] Wallace was succeeded as Vice President on January 20, 1945, and on April 12, Vice President Truman succeeded to the Presidency when PresidentFranklin D. Roosevelt died.

"Henry A. Wallace had missed being the 33rd President of the United States by just 82 days."
Henry A. Wallace - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

Here's the deal, Truman made the right decision but violated the law by not consulting with Congress and that made Korea Truman's responsibility.

Have you ever considered why neither Truman nor congress consulted with the Korean people in 1945?
"On 8 September 1945, U.S. Lt. Gen. John R. Hodge arrived in Incheon to accept the Japanese surrender south of the 38th parallel.[55]

"Appointed as military governor, General Hodge directly controlled South Korea as head of the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGIK 1945–48).[58]

"He established control by restoring to power the key Japanese colonial administrators, but in the face of Korean protests he quickly reversed this decision.[59]

"The USAMGIK refused to recognize the provisional government of the short-lived People's Republic of Korea (PRK) because it suspected it was communist."

Truman, MacArthur, and Hodge among many other "exceptional Americans" defied the public will in Korea, and their arrogance resulted in the wasted deaths of thousands of US troops and millions of innocent Koreans.
Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[whitehall]

Here's the deal, Truman made the right decision but violated the law by not consulting with Congress and that made Korea Truman's responsibility.

Have you ever considered why neither Truman nor congress consulted with the Korean people in 1945?
"On 8 September 1945, U.S. Lt. Gen. John R. Hodge arrived in Incheon to accept the Japanese surrender south of the 38th parallel.[55]

"Appointed as military governor, General Hodge directly controlled South Korea as head of the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGIK 1945–48).[58]

"He established control by restoring to power the key Japanese colonial administrators, but in the face of Korean protests he quickly reversed this decision.[59]

"The USAMGIK refused to recognize the provisional government of the short-lived People's Republic of Korea (PRK) because it suspected it was communist."

Truman, MacArthur, and Hodge among many other "exceptional Americans" defied the public will in Korea, and their arrogance resulted in the wasted deaths of thousands of US troops and millions of innocent Koreans.
Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I don't understand the argument. Is it alleged that the public will in South Korea invited invasion by North Korea?

 

[georgephillip]

I don't understand the argument. Is it alleged that the public will in South Korea invited invasion by North Korea?

No.
The public will in Korea (north and south) in 1945 was to reject US occupation. By June of 1950...?
"In June 1950 North Korean forces attacked the South and by September controlled all but the southeastern region around Pusan. What was the reaction of South Koreans?

a. stiff resistance, in support of the popular U.S.-backed Syngman Rhee regime

b. little resistance, and initially much cooperation

c. general apathy"
What's your answer?
A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[whitehall]

I don't understand the argument. Is it alleged that the public will in South Korea invited invasion by North Korea?

No.
The public will in Korea (north and south) in 1945 was to reject US occupation. By June of 1950...?
"In June 1950 North Korean forces attacked the South and by September controlled all but the southeastern region around Pusan. What was the reaction of South Koreans?

a. stiff resistance, in support of the popular U.S.-backed Syngman Rhee regime

b. little resistance, and initially much cooperation

c. general apathy"
What's your answer?
A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

What does "stiff resistance mean"? It wasn't just the South Korean army. The U.S. Army was pushed to Pusan and was in pretty desperate trouble and in danger of being pushed off the peninsula by the North Koreans. It wasn't until the Inchon landing that N.K. supply line was cut off and the U.S. Marines entered the war and the N.K. was driven back past the capital of Pyongyang. Most of the literature about Korea deals with the Chosin Campaign where Marines spearheaded the great withdraw after MacArthur forced them into the biggest ambush in history but Lee Ballenger's remarkable two volumes about the forgotten part of the "forgotten war" bear scrutiny. There were tough South Korea marines who fought along side US Marines and they were respected by both US Marines and "Commonwealth Troops (UK, Ausies and Kiwis) more than some elements of the U.S. Army during the time when Truman decided he had enough and let the Red Chinese dictate terms for a "truce" that lingered for 18th months while Americans were fighting and dying and outnumbered by the the Chinese.

 

[georgephillip]

What does "stiff resistance mean"? It wasn't just the South Korean army. The U.S. Army was pushed to Pusan and was in pretty desperate trouble and in danger of being pushed off the peninsula by the North Koreans

Here's the question I posed:
"In June 1950 North Korean forces attacked the South and by September controlled all but the southeastern region around Pusan. What was the reaction of South Koreans?

a. stiff resistance, in support of the popular U.S.-backed Syngman Rhee regime

b. little resistance, and initially much cooperation

c. general apathy"

According to my source, the correct answer is "b". Five years after the US invasion of South Korea, most "South" Koreans were more sympathetic to their "North" Korean brothers than to another foreign military occupying their homeland.

A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[eagle1462010]

What does "stiff resistance mean"? It wasn't just the South Korean army. The U.S. Army was pushed to Pusan and was in pretty desperate trouble and in danger of being pushed off the peninsula by the North Koreans

Here's the question I posed:
"In June 1950 North Korean forces attacked the South and by September controlled all but the southeastern region around Pusan. What was the reaction of South Koreans?

a. stiff resistance, in support of the popular U.S.-backed Syngman Rhee regime

b. little resistance, and initially much cooperation

c. general apathy"

According to my source, the correct answer is "b". Five years after the US invasion of South Korea, most "South" Koreans were more sympathetic to their "North" Korean brothers than to another foreign military occupying their homeland.

A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

ROK troops fought their asses off in that War..............

Which part of the article quotes that................

 

[georgephillip]

ROK troops fought their asses off in that War..............

Which part of the article quotes that................

I know ROK troops fought in a civil war that would not have been necessary if the US had allowed reunification in 1945.

I also know the heroics on all sides in that war were used by politicians on all sides to further their own careers and bank accounts.

 

[eagle1462010]

ROK troops fought their asses off in that War..............

Which part of the article quotes that................

I know ROK troops fought in a civil war that would not have been necessary if the US had allowed reunification in 1945.

I also know the heroics on all sides in that war were used by politicians on all sides to further their own careers and bank accounts.

How is it for the people of North Korea Now..............Huh.......................If you live there don't say it too loudly...............Just as a precaution............................

Politicians are the reason there is a North Korea today.

 

[georgephillip]

How is it for the people of North Korea Now..............Huh.......................If you live there don't say it too loudly...............Just as a precaution............................

Politicians are the reason there is a North Korea today.

Have you ever heard of a Korean politician named...
"Lyuh Woon-hyung (May 25, 1886 – July 19, 1947) was a Korean politician who argued that Korean independence was essential to world peace, and a reunification activist who struggled for the independent reunification of Korea since its national division in 1945.

"His pen-name was Mongyang (몽양; 夢陽), the Hanja for 'dream' and 'light.' He is rare among politicians in modern Korean history in that he is revered in both South and North Korea."

Lyuh would have reunited Korea in 1945 if the US hadn't stood in his way.

Why do you suppose we did that?

Lyuh Woon-hyung - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia