Why is Muslim call to prayer allowed?

[Moi]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0430/p01s03-ussc.html



You tell me if thats the same as church bells.

A call to prayer, that no one who doesn't understand arabic can't understand...please. There is a reason bells toll for church...the sounds, frequency, etc. all mean something...just because it isn't in english language doesn't make the message any less clear. The bells toll, they do "say" something.

Just as I don't have a problem with all the christian symbols flying all over the public venue (in god we trust, one nation, under god, their creator, etc.), I don't have any with muslim. We have so many ways in which christianity is proclaimed throughout this country...why treat muslim faith differently?

If we are free to do it for christians, we are free to allow muslims to call to prayer.

 

[dilloduck]

Exactly where is the line to be drawn in the freedom to practice ones' religion?

 

[insein]

A call to prayer, that no one who doesn't understand arabic can't understand...please. There is a reason bells toll for church...the sounds, frequency, etc. all mean something...just because it isn't in english language doesn't make the message any less clear. The bells toll, they do "say" something.

Just as I don't have a problem with all the christian symbols flying all over the public venue (in god we trust, one nation, under god, their creator, etc.), I don't have any with muslim. We have so many ways in which christianity is proclaimed throughout this country...why treat muslim faith differently?

If we are free to do it for christians, we are free to allow muslims to call to prayer.

To say that a sound from an inanimate object vs the voice of a human being are the same thing is ludicrous. Like i said, if it were equal coverage, a Catholic church would have to be allowed to blast the nicene creed 5 times a day. That lasts about 1 minute as does this "Call to prayer".

The point is this, i don't want my rights to freedom from having their religion shoved into my face infringed upon. That goes for both Catholics and Muslims. I'll worship on my time. I don't want their faith shoved into my face.

 

[Moi]

Exactly where is the line to be drawn in the freedom to practice ones' religion?

To be honest, I think we draw the line where the majority of the people in this country want it. I don't think the majority of the people in this country want to erase all mention of religion. I think the majority are okay with a christmas display and a muslim call to prayer. I think the majority are okay with putting a synagogue right next to an indian temple. Nor, I would bet, do most people want to outlaw yarmulke, sari's, burqua's, etc. for those who choose to wear them.

That, and only that, was the impetus of the first amendment. There should be no limit on the free exercise of religion. That means that if the muslims are to be called to service, let them be called. It's certainly not infringing on a catholic's right not to go.

The expression of religion doesn't infringe one someone's right to practice their own. Suppressing expression of religion infringes on someone's right to practice.

 

[insein]

To be honest, I think we draw the line where the majority of the people in this country want it. I don't think the majority of the people in this country want to erase all mention of religion. I think the majority are okay with a christmas display and a muslim call to prayer. I think the majority are okay with putting a synagogue right next to an indian temple. Nor, I would bet, do most people want to outlaw yarmulke, sari's, burqua's, etc. for those who choose to wear them.

That, and only that, was the impetus of the first amendment. There should be no limit on the free exercise of religion. That means that if the muslims are to be called to service, let them be called. It's certainly not infringing on a catholic's right not to go.

The expression of religion doesn't infringe one someone's right to practice their own. Suppressing expression of religion infringes on someone's right to practice.

No. No religion shall be favored over another. Equal treatment has to be made for ALL other religions now.

 

[freeandfun1]

Do you see what the left is doing? They are promoting other religions, which therefore causes Christians to react in a manner that creates an unfavorable atmosphere for all religions. Don't you see, the Liberals know that Christians will rail against this kind of stuff and enact laws that make the playing field level. How? We ban all open forms of religious discussion/observance. See, the left is not stupid. They know that by attacking Christianity, the only way for Christians to "defend" themselves is for us to push for tighter laws on the pubic display of religion. In the end, the Liberals will have what THEY want. A Godless society.

 

[Comrade]

Do you see what the left is doing? They are promoting other religions, which therefore causes Christians to react in a manner that creates an unfavorable atmosphere for all religions. Don't you see, the Liberals know that Christians will rail against this kind of stuff and enact laws that make the playing field level. How? We ban all open forms of religious discussion/observance. See, the left is not stupid. They know that by attacking Christianity, the only way for Christians to "defend" themselves is for us to push for tighter laws on the pubic display of religion. In the end, the Liberals will have what THEY want. A Godless society.

Brilliant observation!

 

[007]

The fundamental differences between these religions are the underlying problem.

Catholic churches use bells to "call" people to church.
Islamic mosques use this "prayer call."

I don't attend either. I also don't really mind either call, particularly.

Both could be seen as noise pollution, something I am very familiar with having spent extensive time hiking deep into the unpopulated(by humans) forests of Maine, Minnesota and the Southwest. I come back from one of those trips, hear a car horn and I want to yell at someone.

ANyways, Arabic is a neat sounding language so I guess that's why I don't really mind the prayer calls.

If they're going to allow Church bells and the Islamic call to prayer, however, they need to allow me to awake my neighborhood with my own call to worship:

You lazy shits,
Get out of bed.
Someone make me breakfast,
Someone give me head.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

What's next, though?
Is Dunkin' Donuts going to start calling over their external loudspeaker every 18 minutes when a fresh pot of coffee is brewed? (That's the secret to their fresh, good tasting coffee by the way.)

Is this a noise pollution issue as much as a religious one?

"Lord" knows... ahem... I don't agree with you often flasher, but you're right about this one. Where's "MY" right to put my stereo speakers in my front room windows, point them outside, and five times a day play my minute long recording. "Come to me, give me money, come to me, give me money". If I did that, I'd be given a citation for disturbing the piece first time. If the catholics can do it, the muslims can do it, then "I" can do it. Otherwise NO ONE should be able to do it. Because it doesn't boil down to whether or not a specific "religon" has more of a right to broadcast WHATEVER over loudspeakers or not. It's all about "can ANYONE do it". It's noise. If you can make it, then so can I. You can't, then neither can I.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Does anyone else find it disgusting that the city council of Hammtramck allowed these Muslims to broadcast the call to prayer? What is happening to the United States?

Does anyone find it disgusting that church bell ring on Sunday morning...Thus disturbing the sleep of those of us who prefer to sleep in?

And, in case you hadn't heard, the Constitution does provide for freedom of association and religious expression.

 

[insein]

Does anyone find it disgusting that church bell ring on Sunday morning...Thus disturbing the sleep of those of us who prefer to sleep in?

And, in case you hadn't heard, the Constitution does provide for freedom of association and religious expression.

You apparently havent read the thread. OR that part in the constitution.

 

[MJDuncan1982]

It doesn't seem that the Muslim prayer should present a large problem. We have freedom of religion here and this call is similar to christian Church bells. Which frequency the sound is produced at doesn't seem to matter. Sound is sound. Plus if the prayer lasts a little over a minute and occurs five times a day that is a little over five minutes out of the entire day devoted to asserting our country's religious freedom.

Obviously there is a line drawn somewhere, as is the case with freedom of speech. It doesn't appear that that line is drawn here however. Blare it extremely loud all day long and you might run into some problems as the issue could become one of noise violation as well as religious expression.

 

[freeandfun1]

It doesn't seem that the Muslim prayer should present a large problem. We have freedom of religion here and this call is similar to christian Church bells. Which frequency the sound is produced at doesn't seem to matter. Sound is sound. Plus if the prayer lasts a little over a minute and occurs five times a day that is a little over five minutes out of the entire day devoted to asserting our country's religious freedom.

Obviously there is a line drawn somewhere, as is the case with freedom of speech. It doesn't appear that that line is drawn here however. Blare it extremely loud all day long and you might run into some problems as the issue could become one of noise violation as well as religious expression.

Bells are bells and as most people will admit, are, for the most part these days, rung to signify THE TIME of day. Muslim prayers are that - verbal (voices not bells) calls over loud speakers for ANYBODY that is nearby to come to MUSLIM prayers. It also signals thoses that cannot make it to the Mosque, that it is time to stop what you are doing and pray.

When I was in Saudi Arabia, for 15 minutes, 5 times a day, they would play the speakers and all the shops would shut down (whether you were Muslim or not, the shop owners had to shut down).

 

[MJDuncan1982]

The bells which are rung to signify the time of day (every hour) are not at issue here. At my church growing up, there were bells rung before every service and at the end of each service. Those bells were clearly religious and intended to signify the beginning and end of the church service.

It doesn't seem that the Muslims in question are asking that shops close and everyone (Muslim and non-Muslim) be forced to stop what they are doing. As you said, that is in Saudi Arabia, not the United States. That would be a violation of separation of church and state if the government required everyone to close at each prayer.

These Muslims are simply asking to be able to broadcast their call to worship/prayer as Christians do.

 

[freeandfun1]

State v. Tommy Jackson- A pastor was criminally charged for church bell ringing during the day. The church originally requested assistance from LLI. The case was settled before any legal action was necessary.

Sure, the case was "settled" but why do Christians have to "settle" and Muslims get a free pass?

Liberty Legal

 

[freeandfun1]

Not in the USA I know, but interesting nevertheless.

KFOR FORBIDS THE USE OF THE CHURCH BELLS

 

[Moi]

Sure, the case was "settled" but why do Christians have to "settle" and Muslims get a free pass?

Liberty Legal

Probably different courts, different jurisdictions.

 

[007]

Sure, the case was "settled" but why do Christians have to "settle" and Muslims get a free pass?

Liberty Legal

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33898



FROM JOSEPH FARAH'S G2 BULLETIN
Radical Islam's 'plan'
to take over America
Arab-American author outlines secret
20-year strategy to undermine country

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 4, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Editor's note: Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin is an online, subscription intelligence news service from the creator of WorldNetDaily.com – a journalist who has been developing sources around the world for the last 25 years.

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A refugee from the Muslim Middle East thinks he has discovered Islam's 20-point plan for conquering the United States by 2020 – a plan revealed in the latest issue of Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

Anis Shorrosh, author of ''Islam Revealed'' and ''The True Furqan,'' is a Christian Arab-American who emigrated from Arab-controlled Jerusalem in January 1967.

''The following is my analysis of Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020,'' Shorrosh says. ''Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11?''

1. Terminate America's freedom of speech by replacing it with statewide and nationwide hate-crime bills.

2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities who promote Islam as the religion of African-Americans while insisting Christianity is for whites only. What they fail to tell African-Americans is that it was Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves. In fact, the Arabic word for black and slave is the same, ''Abed.''

3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.

4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office to bring about favorable legislation toward Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.

5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the Internet as possible by buying the related corporations or a controlling stock.

6. Yield to the fear of the imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America – black gold. America’s economy depends on oil and 41 percent of it comes from the Middle East.

7. Yell ''foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un- American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran'' anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.

8. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions and get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. (Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?) Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way.

9. Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via:


Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961).

Use no birth control whatsoever – every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later.

Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years – since one can't legally marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America.

Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2,000 released inmates have joined al-Qaida worldwide). Only a few ''sleeper cells'' have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil.
10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1,500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are currently 300 exclusively Muslim schools in the U.S. which teach loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution. In January of 2002, Saudi Arabia’s Embassy in Washington mailed 4,500 packets of the Quran and videos promoting Islam to America's high schools – free of charge. Saudi Arabia would not allow the U.S. to reciprocate.

11. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish ''Centers for Islamic studies'' with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher-education institutions.

12. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, when in truth, Islam hijacked the terrorists.

13. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.

14. Nullify America's sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans with reports of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls.

15. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not America's justice system.

16. Open numerous charities throughout the U.S., but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars.

17. Raise interest in Islam on America's campuses by insisting freshman take at least one course on Islam.

18. Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by Internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media.

19. Send intimidating messages and messengers to the outspoken individuals who are critical of Islam and seek to eliminate them by hook or crook.

20. Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the U.S. by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America.

Shorrosh is a member of the Oxford Society of Scholars, has traveled in 76 countries, and is a lecturer and producer of TV documentaries. ''Islam Revealed'' is a bestseller now in its eighth printing. His forthcoming 10th book, from which the 20-point plan is abridged, is titled ''Islam: A Threat or a Challenge.''

 

[Annie]

Pale, I don't know whether or not it's a stated plan, but certainly seems that the plan is being followed.

 

[007]

Pale, I don't know whether or not it's a stated plan, but certainly seems that the plan is being followed.

Sure makes ya think anyway...

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Do you see what the left is doing? They are promoting other religions, which therefore causes Christians to react in a manner that creates an unfavorable atmosphere for all religions. Don't you see, the Liberals know that Christians will rail against this kind of stuff and enact laws that make the playing field level. How? We ban all open forms of religious discussion/observance. See, the left is not stupid. They know that by attacking Christianity, the only way for Christians to "defend" themselves is for us to push for tighter laws on the pubic display of religion. In the end, the Liberals will have what THEY want. A Godless society.

Absolutely.

We need more God in our society. We should encourage all sorts of calls to prayer and let the church bell-ringing commence loudly and much more often.