Why G-d, why did he have to say it was imminent?

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by modman
Obviously the truth hurts because you flat out sound like what I have said is stuff that I made up. He said tax cuts are key for job growth. It's hard to create jobs when they are outsourced and then they priase that. Sick. Bush said he inherited a debt, everyone knows this and if you need a source then you are much stupider than I thought. I know what prediction means. He may have been predicting these figures for China, Japan, Malaysia etc... Quit making it sound like I make these things up. When someone comes out and says they expect 800,000 jobs to be created and end up losing jobs, people wonder why they would say such things, and it comes across as lies because in reality they are trying to sugar coat what is a failing economy.

But it's a growing economy. Sorry.

 

[modman]

Originally posted by eric
Job growth is the final phase in any economic recovery, which we are not in yet, so to say it is untrue is just being ignorant !



Please provide a link to where Bush made this direct claim. Also you do understand that the enconomy is a cyclic system and that after any growth phase there will be downturn, I could educate you on economic cycles if you would like.



Notice the word predictions ! When someone predicts something it is not the same as saying it as fact, therefore, how could you lie about it !

Dean predicted he would win the nomination, too !


It never ceases to amaze me how people make statement with absolutely no knowledge of what they are taking about.

Please enlighten me on your knowledge and experience with economics, other than your savings account.

Do not overcomplicate things. Who needs economic experience when dealing with people like you. If you are'nt educated enough to see what is going on right in front of you then I would'nt even waste my time. You simply base your feelings on the economy on how fat your wallet is. Alot of people don't come from rich families and they can't invest in the stock market or get a decent interest rate, this is YOUR economy. The working man's economy is depentant on jobs and week to week paychecks. Enough said.

 

[modman]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
But it's a growing economy. Sorry.

I'm sorry, when the roughly 3,000,000 people go back to work it will look better. After that we can expect actual growth, not just regaining what we lost. Idiots, I swear.

 

[jon_forward]

according to a Mr.Greenspan...yes, the economy is growing....ever heard of this guy???

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by modman
Obviously the truth hurts because you flat out sound like what I have said is stuff that I made up. He said tax cuts are key for job growth. It's hard to create jobs when they are outsourced and then they priase that. Sick. Bush said he inherited a debt, everyone knows this and if you need a source then you are much stupider than I thought. I know what prediction means. He may have been predicting these figures for China, Japan, Malaysia etc... Quit making it sound like I make these things up. When someone comes out and says they expect 800,000 jobs to be created and end up losing jobs, people wonder why they would say such things, and it comes across as lies because in reality they are trying to sugar coat what is a failing economy.

Nobody said you made it up. Nobody even denied what you said is the truth. They just simply aren't lies. Are our weatherman liars every night when they incorrectly predict the forecast?

I had originally already repied to this and played your game and returned the insult. I've since deleted that message. Your own words are an insult to yourself and say more about you than anyone else can.

 

[modman]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Nobody said you made it up. Nobody even denied what you said is the truth. They just simply aren't lies. Are our weatherman liars every night when they incorrectly predict the forecast?

I had originally already repied to this and played your game and returned the insult. I've since deleted that message. Your own words are an insult to yourself and say more about you than anyone else can.

You asked me for sources as if I had pulled these out of my own head. I have a broken watch that is right twice a day. We count on our weatherman to give us an accurate forecast of the weather. When the weatherman makes a 5 degree mistake we don't care. But if he says it will be sunny and 90 tomorrow and it ends up snowing, i think we can all agree he gets FIRED!

 

[jon_forward]

Originally posted by modman
I'm sorry, when the roughly 3,000,000 people go back to work it will look better. After that we can expect actual growth, not just regaining what we lost. Idiots, I swear.

soooo...If I prune a tree back...and the tree starts to grow this cut-off part back...it isnt new growth till ...when....DUH

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by modman
You asked me for sources as if I had pulled these out of my own head. I have a broken watch that is right twice a day. We count on our weatherman to give us an accurate forecast of the weather. When the weatherman makes a 5 degree mistake we don't care. But if he says it will be sunny and 90 tomorrow and it ends up snowing, i think we can all agree he gets FIRED!

I asked for sources so that I could show you that what you speak of is predictions. Failed predictions are not lies.

The weatherman may very well be fired for failed predictions, but that doesn't come nearly close to making him a liar.

 

[jon_forward]

modman....dont take this wrong as I am not trying to beat you up......A prediction is a guess...an educated guess ..but still a guess....understand?

 

[eric]

Do not overcomplicate things. Who needs economic experience when dealing with people like you. If you are'nt educated enough to see what is going on right in front of you then I would'nt even waste my time

You believe this is complicated, then you are more simple minded than I first thought. Educated enough ? I really hope you are joking ! Listen my friend I started with nothing in this life, you hear that loud and clear, nothing ! My parents were immigrants from Europe and came here with the clothes on their backs. I built what I have from the ground up, so don't even start with this rich family crap, it don't fly with me, I worked my way up from nothing to the CEO of an Information Technology and Development Corp. The reason my wallet is fat is because I understand economics and know how to use both the up and down cycles to my advantage, something you obviously have no understanding of. To me you are nothing more than a parrot who repeats bits and piece of what you hear and see, without any real understanding of the subject at hand. Just look at you stupid ass remark about outsourcing, you actually believe this is a result of this administration's policies, get real and get educated, start to use your limited brain a little.

 

[nbdysfu]

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xx7k-ysmr/keiki/2unemp.gif

An interesting chart for this discussion. Notice unemployment rates are nowhere near what his father faced. If the behavior is cyclical(which it usually is,) you will see a steady rebound in the economy. There was a 100,000 strong growth in jobs in January, despite the poor job gains in December. With the strong stocks, empty warehouses and untaxed corps to back it up I think you can expect some serious growth. Right now retail has outstripped warehousing in real estate value. Wonder why? Consumption is up, and productivity is aching for stimulation. I would take the president's prediction of 2.6 mil with a salt lick though. I'll guess 0.9-1.2 by September. That would still put the rate at a point lower than it was at the very end of the Clinton admin.

 

[jon_forward]

why is there always "someone" to compare to??? what this admin has had to go through no one else has had to indure...

 

[modman]

Originally posted by eric
You believe this is complicated, then you are more simple minded than I first thought. Educated enough ? I really hope you are joking ! Listen my friend I started with nothing in this life, you hear that loud and clear, nothing ! My parents were immigrants from Europe and came here with the clothes on their backs. I built what I have from the ground up, so don't even start with this rich family crap, it don't fly with me, I worked my way up from nothing to the CEO of an Information Technology and Development Corp. The reason my wallet is fat is because I understand economics and know how to use both the up and down cycles to my advantage, something you obviously have no understanding of. To me you are nothing more than a parrot who repeats bits and piece of what you hear and see, without any real understanding of the subject at hand. Just look at you stupid ass remark about outsourcing, you actually believe this is a result of this administration's policies, get real and get educated, start to use your limited brain a little.

CEO. I thought as much. How can someone so far out of touch with the common man know what thier priorites are in life. I can imagine you paying $5.00 for starbucks coffee and then driving your hummer 3 blocks in the city to get to work. The administration has no problem with jobs going over seas. They praise it. While you keep on reading the wall street journal here is some on the news the majority of us read, I particularly like John Edwards' comment:

Tuesday, February 10, 2004

By Warren Vieth and Edwin Chen, Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON -- The movement of U.S. factory jobs and white-collar work to other countries is part of a positive transformation that will enrich the U.S. economy over time, even if it causes short-term pain and dislocation, the Bush administration said yesterday.

The embrace of foreign "outsourcing," an accelerating trend that has contributed to U.S. job losses in recent years and become an issue in the 2004 elections, is contained in the president's annual report to Congress on the health of the U.S. economy.

"Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade," said N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisors, which prepared the report. "More things are tradable than were tradable in the past. And that's a good thing."

The report, which predicts that the nation will reverse a three-year employment slide by creating 2.6 million jobs in 2004, is part of a weeklong effort by the administration to highlight signs that the recovery is picking up speed. Bush's economic stewardship has become a central issue in the presidential campaign, and the White House is eager to demonstrate that his policies are producing results.

In his message to Congress yesterday, Bush said the economy "is strong and getting stronger," thanks in part to his tax cuts and other economic programs. He said the nation had survived a stock market meltdown, recession, terrorist attacks, corporate scandals and war in Afghanistan and Iraq, and was finally beginning to enjoy "a mounting prosperity that will reach every corner of America."

The president repeated that message during an afternoon "conversation" on the economy at SRC Automotive, an engine-rebuilding plant in Springfield, Mo., where he lashed out at lawmakers who oppose making his tax cuts permanent.

"When they say, 'We're going to repeal Bush's tax cuts,' that means they're going to raise your taxes, and that's wrong. And that's bad economics," he said.

Democrats who want Bush's job were quick to challenge his claims.

Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kerry, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, supports a rollback of Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and backs the creation of tax incentives for companies that keep jobs in the United States -- although he supported the North American Free Trade Agreement, which many union members say is responsible for the migration of U.S. jobs, particularly in the auto industry, to Mexico.

Campaigning yesterday in Roanoke, Va., Kerry questioned the credibility of the administration's job-creation forecast. "I've got a feeling this report was prepared by the same people who brought us the intelligence on Iraq," he said. "I don't think we need a new report about jobs in America. I think we need a new president who's going to create jobs in America and put Americans back to work."

In an evening appearance at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va., North Carolina Sen. John Edwards mocked the Bush administration's economic report.

Edwards, also a Democratic presidential nomination candidate who also supports repealing tax cuts for the richest Americans and offering incentives to corporations that create new jobs in the United States, said it would come as a "news bulletin" to the American people that the economy is improving and the outsourcing of jobs overseas is good for America.

"These people," he said of the Bush administration, "what planet do they live on? They are so out of touch."

The president's 411-page report contains a detailed diagnosis of the forces contributing to the U.S. economic slowdown and a wide-ranging defense of the policies Bush has pursued to combat it.

It asserts that the last recession actually began in late 2000, before the president took office, instead of March 2001, as certified by the official recession-dating panel of the National Bureau of Economic Research.

The report repeats the administration's contention that the Bush tax cuts must be made permanent to have their full beneficial effect on the economy.

Social Security also must be restructured to let workers put part of their retirement funds in private accounts, the report argues. Doing so could add nearly $5 trillion to the national debt by 2036, the president's advisers note, but the additional borrowing would be repaid 20 years later, and the program's long-term health would be more secure.

 

[jimnyc]

I fail to see where that article states the outsourcing is a result of the Bush administration policies. I still don't see how you refuted anything Eric said.

 

[modman]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I fail to see where that article states the outsourcing is a result of the Bush administration policies. I still don't see how you refuted anything Eric said.

"Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade," said N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisors, which prepared the report. "More things are tradable than were tradable in the past. And that's a good thing."

 

[jon_forward]

and this statement proves......nothing

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And outsourcing keeps our corparations competitive with other countries who ARE using the cheaper labor. You really need to look up the term protectionism and read how in the long run it is detrimental to any economy.

 

[nbdysfu]

Like, when I was in the ninth grade and it was the nineties, and I went to a movie theatre and one of the trailers was about sending ITech to India. There were going to be millions of people sharing in our technology. It was a happy moment for liberal internationalists. Like, what happened to that?

 

[Bry]

outsourcing is, obviously, a mixed bag.

Historically speaking, it is the final stage of capitalism. When we begin to export jobs, money, and in the end, power, that means two things: first that it is the beginning of a redistribution, which in itself I think is good (even though the mechanism is greedy corporations, certainly not a desire to redistribute.) Second, the third world will become involucrated in the capitalists interest. Those that benefit will fight for the continuation of the system. They will see the birth of the middle class, but only for a short time, I believe. Meanwhile, in the US the disparity of wealth will widen considerably and the middle class will weaken. The ranks of the poor will swell. The sum total: this brings us closer to the revolution.

 

[jon_forward]