Why do you support liberalism?

[Papa Jack]

"Why do you support liberalism?"

Although I proudly admit to being a life long Democrat, I would not think of myself as strictly a "liberal." I consider myself to be, much like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Barrack Obama, to be very much a "middle-of-the-roader. But, since many others who are so into labels would consider me, Carter, Clinton, and Obama to be wild-eyed radical liberals, then I'll gladly answer the question.

I support Liberalism because it is the only political entity today who is willing to work on solving problems. You don't have to agree with us, and I know many of you will fight, tooth and nail, against anything we propose..............but, we are still the only hope for starting the debate on the issues that are going to cause us to follow in the footsteps of Greece unless solved.

Our opponents had years and years to work on health care reform, Green Technology, energy independence, Medicare, and social security reform. No one can deny they choose to punt the ball instead of doing any heavy lifting on those causes. Whether the proposals we put forth would make things better, or worse..........we're still willing to try to work on 'em.

The second reason many of you would call me a "Liberal" is because my party WILL work with the GOP on key issues. Not to say I approve of all of it, but no one can deny that Democrats gave the Republicans great support on things like Bush's tax cuts, Part "D" Medicare Reform, No Child Left Behind, his decision to invade both Afghanistan, and Iraq, and his TARP bailout. This is something that is lacking in today's GOP because, for whatever reason, they refuse to work seriously to solve what we will have to address if we are going to continue to function as a nation!

I'm sorry but locking Republicans out of health care meetings is not really WORKING with the opposing party...

And as far as heading towards Greece... What do you think spending ungodly amounts of money is going to do to our country if it's not going to bankrupt us like Greece??

You can use that ole "locking Republicans out of health care meetings is not really WORKING with the opposing party" canard all you like...........it doesn't move the ball one inch! Had the GOP decided to work on a solution to our Health Care crisis instead of trying to make it Obama's "Waterloo" then the resulting legislation could have been far better. That "they' were not involved is no one's fault but their own!

"Spending ungodly amounts of money" is not what's wrecked Greece and has put us on the edge of following right along behind them..............it's "spending ungodly amounts of money we DON'T PAY FOR!"

There is a solution to every problem we face. Now, that solution ain't going to be easy, it is certainly going to hurt, and is sure as hell is going to be expensive. Our only choice is to decide whether to pay the piper, or to continue with our present solution...............hope we die before the crash and let our children and grandchildren be the ones to starve!

 

[Tom Clancy]

Liberal/Progressive/Socialist/Democrat whatever you want to call it.

Well..

Like any sort of Philosophy has it's "Good" Parts.. (Not Mentioning Extremist Philosophy's, Like Communism nor Fascism.)

But what do i think of em? I have nothing against them really.. I just don't approve of it, I understand why people would be inclined to be a Liberal/Progressive etc, but it's not for me..

I'm a Conservative, with a hint of Classic Liberalism. And no, not the Conservative Palin and Hannity make it out to be.. I actually despise those two Nuts, The Real Conservatism.

Big difference between, Neo-Cons and Conservatives.

Well...

Now here is a WONDERFUL opportunity for a true Conservative to specifiy their beliefs...

One would have thought, given the emphatic nature of your position; that you'd have taken just a moment to have demonstrated this vast distinction; wherein you see yourself as a teeny tiny bit like those Classic Liberals of the American foundation... and A LOT LIKE and the embodiment of a TRUE CONSERVATIVE... which in and of itself pretty well tells the story... but this promises to be fairly entertaining so let's play it out and see where it goes.

Anywho... Now you passed up a TERRIFIC opportunity to define what you BELIEVE represents TRUE CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES! Which you stated that you also believe are DISTINCT, for the most part, from The American Founding principles...

In so doing, you also went out of your way to cast dispersions upon and setting yourself and your beliefs distinct from those who you claim are something called 'NEO-CONS'.... Without defining what that means... and how YOUR UNSTATED BELIEFS are different from these dreaded NEO-CONS...

So in short, you've set yourself distinct from the Classic Liberal and WHOLLY AMERICAN Principles of the American founding and the ethereal beliefs of "THE NEO-CONS"...

Could ya take some time and clear this up for us? What do you believe "TRUE CONSERVATIVISM" represents... and how is this distinct from the immutable principles of the American founding? And what is a NEO-CON? What do THEY believe and how is it different from what YOU BELIEVE?

You actually Beleive what Neo-Cons stand for is the same as our Founding Fathers? Clear it up for me..

There is a difference..

True Conservatives favor Protecting Civil Liberties, no matter their Lifestyle, Gender or Race.

True Conservatives Favor a Limited Government. Meaning, The Government is here to Protect us, build Public Schools, Fire Dept, Police Dept.. On the other hand, Neo Cons tend to say they stand for a Small Government, but actually.. They're the same as a Progressive.. If it benefits their Agenda they'll do whatever it takes.

True Conservatives actually Favor Real Fiscal Responsibility, and Lowering Taxes.. (But Cutting Taxes while in the midst of 2 Wars is silly.)

True Conservatives favor a Laissez-faire Economic System, the only Regulation that should be in place is to keep our Food and Goods safe and to make sure our Banks don't fool the American People. (ejem.. look back to '08)

With that said.. If you were a True Conservative you wouldn't favor the Bailout nor the Stimulus..

Instead of Bailing out the Big dogs, why didn't the Government Bailout the Small Business? Aren't they the heart of the American Economy?

 

[Papa Jack]

What problems has the government ever fixed?

When "government" has gotten serious about working on really major issues, it has done a remarkable job! Just to name a few.................got us out of The Great Depression, won a couple of World Wars, brought the veterans home from World war II and created the greatest middle class in the history of the world, built an interstate highway system which was the envy of the world, did the same by building a great public school system.

"Government" can work............most of the reason it no longer does so is because of us! Too many of us now prefer our politics to be more like professional wrestling instead of a method of working on the problems we face.

That all you got? The war got us out of the great depression, it wasn't nothing the government did.

The rest of your examples are rather lame. Setting aside the World Wars, please show the problems in the interstate highway system and public schools that the government fixed.
I asked a simple question. What problems has the government fixed?

First identify the problem then show how the government fixed it. Pretty simple task.

Well for one thing, that interstate highway system and that public school system you seem to denigrate created the greatest middle class in the history of the world. Perhaps that doesn't impress you, but it did the rest of the world!

You seem to revel in falling into that category of "government ain't the answer, it's the problem." I agree it's a pretty good punch line. So, maybe you can tell us how we're going to escape the consequences of not dealing with such problems as Medicare, Social Security, Health Care Reform, a growing dependence on foreign oil, and a shrinking job market without the involvement of that government you seem to detest.

 

[rightwinger]

Why does 40 or 44% of americans want so much government control?We are supposed to have fredom from government.
Why do so many hate our constisution? Because if it was followed we wounld not be in this financial perdiciment in the first place

Why do so may, especially those in the GOP and the Tea Party movement, equate working on solutions to major problems as "government control?"

Do you not agree that there are issues that, if not addressed, will completely cripple this country? Do you honestly think a resolution to those problems can be found any where else but in Congress?

I agree with you that had we done things differently over the past 30 years we would not be facing these problems. That has absolutely nothing to do with where we now are! We've made a ton of mistakes in the past! Now, we either let those mistakes wreck us, or we act like grownups and work to correct 'em.

What problems has the government ever fixed?

- Uncontrolled pollution of our air and water supplies
- Workplace safety
- Discrimination against blacks, minorities, women, gays
- Interstate transportation
- Nationwide communications
- labor abuses
- Food safety

and thousands of others

 

[JBeukema]

liberals believe it's the governments job to care for people from cradle to grave.

Far be it from you to know anything about Liberalism- or anything elswe for that matter

Conservatives favor a free market system. liberals favor a system in which government regulates the economy.

Laissez-Faire economics is a pillar of the Liberal doctrine

 

[Bern80]

"Why do you support liberalism?"

Although I proudly admit to being a life long Democrat, I would not think of myself as strictly a "liberal." I consider myself to be, much like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Barrack Obama, to be very much a "middle-of-the-roader. But, since many others who are so into labels would consider me, Carter, Clinton, and Obama to be wild-eyed radical liberals, then I'll gladly answer the question.

Solutions were offered by Republicans. That those ideas were simply drowned out and ignored by the left simply highlights the ideological differences between right and left.

I support Liberalism because it is the only political entity today who is willing to work on solving problems. You don't have to agree with us, and I know many of you will fight, tooth and nail, against anything we propose..............but, we are still the only hope for starting the debate on the issues that are going to cause us to follow in the footsteps of Greece unless solved.

The right doesn't want to solve problems? Please attempt some intellectual honesty if you're going to carry on a conversation. That is the difference. It wasn't that the left wanted health care reform and the right didn't. It was an issue of the left wanted to solve the problem and how the right would have solved it. That is the difference with any type of policy issue. And the problem with liberals is that they seem to think it is the role of government to solve people's problems.

[The second reason many of you would call me a "Liberal" is because my party WILL work with the GOP on key issues. Not to say I approve of all of it, but no one can deny that Democrats gave the Republicans great support on things like Bush's tax cuts, Part "D" Medicare Reform, No Child Left Behind, his decision to invade both Afghanistan, and Iraq, and his TARP bailout. This is something that is lacking in today's GOP because, for whatever reason, they refuse to work seriously to solve what we will have to address if we are going to continue to function as a nation!

Compromise is fine in some instances, but when your 'solution' to a problem is fundamentally unsound I have zero problem with the right repeatng NO untill the cows come home.

 

[Oddball]

As I've said several times before, I totally agree we are now in the shape we're in because of past political mistakes. I don't know how many other ways to say "I AGREE!"

But, with that being said, what is the alternative to agreeing we screwed up in the past and working on a solution to turn it around?

I cannot fathom this attitude of "they messed up yesterday, so let's not do squat about it tomorrow!"

At this point, doing nothing would be less harmful than letting them "fix" what they've screwed up so horribly.

But hey, if you think that some more leeches and another blood letting will cure the common cold.....

 

[Papa Jack]

Solutions were offered by Republicans. That those ideas were simply drowned out and ignored by the left simply highlights the ideological differences between right and left.



The right doesn't want to solve problems? Please attempt some intellectual honesty if you're going to carry on a conversation. That is the difference. It wasn't that the left wanted health care reform and the right didn't. It was an issue of the left wanted to solve the problem and how the right would have solved it. That is the difference with any type of policy issue. And the problem with liberals is that they seem to think it is the role of government to solve people's problems.



Compromise is fine in some instances, but when your 'solution' to a problem is fundamentally unsound I have zero problem with the right repeatng NO untill the cows come home.

Let's try to talk rationally about your complaints:

1. "Solutions were offered by Republicans.".......... I assume you're talking about Health Care Reform. Yes, "Solutions were offered by Republicans"...................and many of them were incorporated into what was finally passed. That doesn't change the fact that the GOP stance, as a Party, was to use the health care debate to make it Obama's "Waterloo." No one with an ounce of political and intellectual honesty can pretend that the goal of the GOP was to make Health Care reform BETTER! Had they taken that stance, we, as a Nation, would be far, far better of than we are today!

2. "The right doesn't want to solve problems?"..............."It wasn't that the left wanted health care reform and the right didn't.".........."It was an issue of the left wanted to solve the problem and how the right would have solved it.".........Ditto above!

3. "Compromise is fine in some instances, but when your 'solution' to a problem is fundamentally unsound I have zero problem with the right repeating NO."............That is the main reason we are almost ready to follow Greece over a cliff. It isn't that Compromise is the problem.............the problem is "NO" is the answer before a compromise is ever proposed!
History has shown us that there isn't a problem we can't handle...........if both sides agree there is a problem, and both sides agree that they will work until a solution is reached. History has also shown us that we can never, ever solve a major issue with just one party!

The issue isn't if we can solve a problem..........the question is if we have the will to get together and work on that problem until we reach a consensus in law while telling the political radio comedians to be damned!

 

[goldcatt]

I lean more towards liberalism over conservatism because i don't believe in government by golden rule. That is, I don't want those that have the gold making the rules. I see the government's role as establishment of a level playing field that is balanced in its fairness to business owners, workers, and consumers. I wouldn't care to go back to the days before the labor movement. I believe the government has a role in establishing standards regarding workers' safety, approving drugs that pharmaceutical companies wish to market, and environmental regulations to protect the air I breathe and water I drink.

It's a different view of freedom I think, that reocgnizes it's not only government that can misuse power and enslave people. It's a human trait. And for some things government is the best entity to provide balance - and protection.

Yeah, governments throughout the ages have been great examples of entities that have provided balance and protected the people. And what exactly is 'provide balance'?

I'm in the mood to humor the troll. Some conservatives seem to believe all private entities are inherently good and all public ones are inherently evil. But liberals tend to understand freedom means freedom from all who would control and abuse, not only government but private entities as well.

Look back at the labor movement as just one example. Today my children are in school as we speak. Years ago in the area and family where they (and I) were born, there would have been no such opportunity because they (and I) would have been working 14 hour days in the coal bins for the barons. I would not be posting on USMB because I would probably not be literate. The same could be said for many others on here, I'm sure. Who put a stop to things like child labor and economic serfdom in the company town, private entities? Of course not.

That's not to say government should be running everything, before you put those words in my mouth. But on one hand is the rule of gold and on the other the rule of law with freedom from both in the middle. Law, meaning government, needs enough strength to keep the private entities who would abuse the people at bay the same as private entities need enough power to protect privately owned resources. As in, it's a "balance". With the added benefit of keeping both sets of boots at least somewhat off our necks while they check and balance each other. Unless of course they're colluding. But that's another thread topic altogether.

I'm sure you'll disagree, and that's fine. It takes all kinds. But when all you bring to the table is mockery it says a lot more about what you've got - or haven't - than about my position. Just sayin'.

 

[maineman]

I'd love to see some of the answers here.

a whole host of reasons, not to mention my complete support for the track record of progressive liberalism over the past century.... but certainly one of my reasons that comes to mind today is that I support liberalism because it pisses YOU off.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

When "government" has gotten serious about working on really major issues, it has done a remarkable job! Just to name a few.................got us out of The Great Depression, won a couple of World Wars, brought the veterans home from World war II and created the greatest middle class in the history of the world, built an interstate highway system which was the envy of the world, did the same by building a great public school system.

"Government" can work............most of the reason it no longer does so is because of us! Too many of us now prefer our politics to be more like professional wrestling instead of a method of working on the problems we face.

That all you got? The war got us out of the great depression, it wasn't nothing the government did.

The rest of your examples are rather lame. Setting aside the World Wars, please show the problems in the interstate highway system and public schools that the government fixed.
I asked a simple question. What problems has the government fixed?

First identify the problem then show how the government fixed it. Pretty simple task.

Well for one thing, that interstate highway system and that public school system you seem to denigrate created the greatest middle class in the history of the world. Perhaps that doesn't impress you, but it did the rest of the world!

You seem to revel in falling into that category of "government ain't the answer, it's the problem." I agree it's a pretty good punch line. So, maybe you can tell us how we're going to escape the consequences of not dealing with such problems as Medicare, Social Security, Health Care Reform, a growing dependence on foreign oil, and a shrinking job market without the involvement of that government you seem to detest.

Did the highways or the schools ever have problems? If so, then give some specifics.

You just named three things the government created and you admit they all have problems. The other two are easily fixed with free market solutions. Dependency on for oil can be solved by tapping into all our natural recources, but the government isn't allowing that to happen now are they? As for jobs, the government again has found a way to fuck that up by all the damn taxes they've placed on corporations. Now they're threatening even more jobs with this stupid cap and trade bill.

So far you haven't came up with one thing the government has fixed.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Why do so may, especially those in the GOP and the Tea Party movement, equate working on solutions to major problems as "government control?"

Do you not agree that there are issues that, if not addressed, will completely cripple this country? Do you honestly think a resolution to those problems can be found any where else but in Congress?

I agree with you that had we done things differently over the past 30 years we would not be facing these problems. That has absolutely nothing to do with where we now are! We've made a ton of mistakes in the past! Now, we either let those mistakes wreck us, or we act like grownups and work to correct 'em.

What problems has the government ever fixed?

- Uncontrolled pollution of our air and water supplies
- Workplace safety
- Discrimination against blacks, minorities, women, gays
- Interstate transportation
- Nationwide communications
- labor abuses
- Food safety

and thousands of others

You simply named more bureaucracy the govt. has created. None of what you named was ever broken.

There is still pollution workplace accidents, descrimination, fucked up roads, labor abuses. food hazards. Communications has never been a government entity.

In other words.....you fail!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Liberalism in and of itself isn't inherently bad... it has given us some good things and offers a needed counter to rigid conservatism. However, what we see today is liberalism on steroids... also called progressivism and statism.

 

[rightwinger]

What problems has the government ever fixed?

- Uncontrolled pollution of our air and water supplies
- Workplace safety
- Discrimination against blacks, minorities, women, gays
- Interstate transportation
- Nationwide communications
- labor abuses
- Food safety

and thousands of others

You simply named more bureaucracy the govt. has created. None of what you named was ever broken.

There is still pollution workplace accidents, descrimination, fucked up roads, labor abuses. food hazards. Communications has never been a government entity.

In other words.....you fail!

FAIL....typical head in the sand denial

Never heard of Love Canal? Rampant smog? Contaminated rivers? All were the result of letting industries make money with no government oversight

Ever see the safety records of companies in the 20s and 30s? Workers died and they had three workers waiting to replace them. We needed the government to force safety regulations because industry would not do it on their own.

The rest are not even worth discussing with you

 

[Lonestar_logic]

- Uncontrolled pollution of our air and water supplies
- Workplace safety
- Discrimination against blacks, minorities, women, gays
- Interstate transportation
- Nationwide communications
- labor abuses
- Food safety

and thousands of others

You simply named more bureaucracy the govt. has created. None of what you named was ever broken.

There is still pollution workplace accidents, descrimination, fucked up roads, labor abuses. food hazards. Communications has never been a government entity.

In other words.....you fail!

FAIL....typical head in the sand denial

Never heard of Love Canal? Rampant smog? Contaminated rivers? All were the result of letting industries make money with no government oversight

Ever see the safety records of companies in the 20s and 30s? Workers died and they had three workers waiting to replace them. We needed the government to force safety regulations because industry would not do it on their own.

The rest are not even worth discussing with you

You're even more stupid than you look. The government hasn't fixed anything. There is still pollution and workplace deaths. You're saying corporations wouldn't do it on their own and you have no proof of that. I can tell you that Dow Chemical's safety standards are above and beyond OSHA requirements and they're not alone. Many industries have safety guidelines that go beyond OSHA requirements.

 

[rightwinger]

You simply named more bureaucracy the govt. has created. None of what you named was ever broken.

There is still pollution workplace accidents, descrimination, fucked up roads, labor abuses. food hazards. Communications has never been a government entity.

In other words.....you fail!

FAIL....typical head in the sand denial

Never heard of Love Canal? Rampant smog? Contaminated rivers? All were the result of letting industries make money with no government oversight

Ever see the safety records of companies in the 20s and 30s? Workers died and they had three workers waiting to replace them. We needed the government to force safety regulations because industry would not do it on their own.

The rest are not even worth discussing with you

You're even more stupid than you look. The government hasn't fixed anything. There is still pollution and workplace deaths. You're saying corporations wouldn't do it on their own and you have no proof of that. I can tell you that Dow Chemical's safety standards are above and beyond OSHA requirements and they're not alone. Many industries have safety guidelines that go beyond OSHA requirements.

Private industry would not have fixed polution on its own. It was cheaper to dump toxic chemicals into the rivers than to pay to have them disposed. The Government FORCED them to comply

Industries like mining, construction, farming, fishing all had excessie death rates because they would order workers to accept the risk or they would find someone who would. Without government intervention, safety standards would have never been accepted.

Dow chemical today may be safe...but explain it to the people of Bhopal where there was no government regulation

Once again....you FAIL

 

[JBeukema]

What problems has the government ever fixed?

- Uncontrolled pollution of our air and water supplies
- Workplace safety
- Discrimination against blacks, minorities, women, gays
- Interstate transportation
- Nationwide communications
- labor abuses
- Food safety

and thousands of others

You simply named more bureaucracy the govt. has created. None of what you named was ever broken.

There is still pollution workplace accidents, descrimination, fucked up roads, labor abuses. food hazards. Communications has never been a government entity.

In other words.....you fail!

 

[JBeukema]

Ever see the safety records of companies in the 20s and 30s? Workers died and they had three workers waiting to replace them.

a fine solution to unemployment

 

[rdean]

I'm getting in this discussion kinda late, but I support liberalism because it's what gave us the Bill of Rights and is the basis of individual liberty.

I certainly don't support socialism or centralised government - both of which are the bane of a system that is centered upon the liberties and the voice of each individual. But I'm in full favor of a liberal system of representative government that places each persons liberty and voice ahead of the desires of government, and which (when applied honestly) places the will of the citizens above the will of government officials.

When it comes to how individuals choose to live their lives, I lean quite far to the conservative side of the spectrum in hopes that people would choose moral, fair, and honest lifestyles. In terms of government, I prefer a government that basically keeps its hands off my stack and lets us live as we choose.

There was a time when I wished that the government would take a stand for conservative morality and lifestyle, but I've since begun to understand that pundits and others who blast that horn are only using it to create political division and distraction from the liberty framework in our constitution so that we turn away from liberty and towards a system that seeks to control many of our daily activities.

That understanding helps me to remain aware of left/right and liberal/conservative ideological traps that are used to keep us separated and to keep us bickering about non-productive issues rather than focusing on maintaining the foundational structure of our LIBERAL Constitution.

And that's why I support liberalism.

Those are usually code words. Fair and honest - fine.

Moral? To me, discrimination against the gays is "immoral". To many right wingers, moral would be "killing the gays".

So how did "gays" come up? "Lifestyle" for the right wing is code for gays. As if their "lifestyle" included eating babies or having moonlight blood orgies. Worse, many conservatives don't even know where gays come from. They think they might be "immigrants".

All I said is that I'm against legislating morality. Your response is completely out of context.

Lifestyle to me is how I choose to live my life. It might mean I like to live near the beach and have a low-pressure job. Or not. No codes. Gay or straight has nothing to do with it.

When it comes to gay or straight, I personally prefer straight. I teach my children that gay is immoral, but if someone chooses gay, the government should have zero say in the matter. I also teach my children that although someone may act immorally in one way or another, our role is not to judge them, but to love and accept them as a child of God who is imperfect - just like we are.

But that's a personal decision, not a government decision. I have friends who are gay. They know that I'm opposed to a gay lifestyle, but they also know that they are welcome and valued by me as unique individuals who are equal in my eyes and in the eyes of God.

The government has no business legislating morality unless the issues have a measurable impact on the Constitutional rights of others.

Please don't be offended. This is an obsevation, not a personal attack.

The sad thruth is the worst kind of person are those who say, "I have gay friends, but I believe they are dirty and will burn in hell, but hey, it's their "choice". They "choose" not to have the same rights as me."

But if Pulitzer prize winner, Kathleen Parker, the right wing columnist, can change, who knows?

Pulitzer Prize Winning Homophobe | Slog | The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper

 

[rdean]

Why does 40 or 44% of americans want so much government control?We are supposed to have fredom from government.
Why do so many hate our constisution? Because if it was followed we wounld not be in this financial perdiciment in the first place

Why do so may, especially those in the GOP and the Tea Party movement, equate working on solutions to major problems as "government control?"

Do you not agree that there are issues that, if not addressed, will completely cripple this country? Do you honestly think a resolution to those problems can be found any where else but in Congress?

I agree with you that had we done things differently over the past 30 years we would not be facing these problems. That has absolutely nothing to do with where we now are! We've made a ton of mistakes in the past! Now, we either let those mistakes wreck us, or we act like grownups and work to correct 'em.

Most of those "mistakes" have been caused by misguided do-gooder/moral preening gubmint policies.

How do you expect to trust the arsonist to put out the fire?

You talk so much bullshit all the time.

So remove government from everything. At the "very worst", other countries would waltz in and carve us up.

But look at "only bad". Republicans deregulated everything and replaced it with "voluntary compliance". What do we get? Mining disasters. Oil spills. Dirty air. Dirty water. Fucked up economy.

Would you feel good driving down a highway where all speed limits had been removed? In a car built without any safety regulations? Now that I think about it, maybe you would.