Why do people insist on attacking effects instead of causes?

[TNHarley]

Example 1 : Trumps tax returns.
People seem to think he is hiding something. A lot of them think he doesn't pay much in taxes, if anything. Is it possible? Absolutely. But why be mad at him? Have you ever taken a credit? Its pretty much the same thing.. Why not be mad at our complex tax code that allows loopholes? Wouldn't a simpler tax code solve that?

Example 2 : Building a wall.
Why not just focus on ending incentive and be done with it? What do you think brings illegals here? Scenery?

There are many more, but these are two good ones, IMO.

You want to know what my answer is? Partisan politics.
Like the immigration thing, people want it fixed. They are done with it.. But then vote for a party that has granted amnesty to more people than the other? What sense does that make? It makes no sense, that's how much. Just more partisan politics. So they cling to an idea that fails to solve the actual problem, so that the illegal problem wont be solved. But as long as it keeps donors and the Chamber of Commerce happy, right? As long as they have that R, who gives a shit?

I am so glad we have more independents every day!

 

[SwimExpert]

I find your premise to be faulty, and based on a failure (perhaps willful?) to understand what people find objectionable in these scenarios.

1 - It is a simple integrity question. That he has bucked long established tradition is puzzling. That he continues to attribute it to a BS excuse demonstrates positive dishonesty.

2 - Building a wall is merely a secondary euphemism. Trump's positively racist demeanor is the problem.

 

[TNHarley]

I find your premise to be faulty, and based on a failure (perhaps willful?) to understand what people find objectionable in these scenarios.

1 - It is a simple integrity question. That he has bucked long established tradition is puzzling. That he continues to attribute it to a BS excuse demonstrates positive dishonesty.

2 - Building a wall is merely a secondary euphemism. Trump's positively racist demeanor is the problem.

1. I disagree. If he did show his tax returns(I mean, who really gives a fuck?) and it showed he paid nothing, people will bitch about it, while they do the SAME THING and blame a private citizen instead of the government who makes it LEGAL. Circle of stupidity
2. That has nothing to do with my point.

 

[whitehall]

Any rational person has to know that Trump's tax returns have been audited every year just as every other high profile republican like Rush Limbaugh. What's more we know the Hussein administration has used the IRS to punish political enemies. It's obvious that Trump has broken no laws and if a self made billionaire can outwit the IRS and the warerhouse full of often conflicting tax laws, God bless him.

 

[The Great Goose]

Most people are really dumb.

 

[TNHarley]

Most people are really dumb.

Simple and to the point. I like it.

 

[SwimExpert]

1. I disagree. If he did show his tax returns(I mean, who really gives a fuck?) and it showed he paid nothing, people will bitch about it, while they do the SAME THING and blame a private citizen instead of the government who makes it LEGAL. Circle of stupidity

Personally, wouldn't blame people for complaining if he paid no income tax. It would demonstrate some of the things wrong with our current tax code. It would also lend itself to some incidentals as well. I've been one who has been saying for quite some time that people need to shut up with this 47% nonsense, because they're obtusely assuming a fixed linear divide, when in reality there is many a wealthy person amongst them.

It sounds like your complaint is simply widespread relevance. The question of Trump's taxes has direct or indirect relevance to many parts of the political discourse, but you want people to focus in on only one portion. Now that does not make sense to me. Don't get me wrong, I agree wholeheartedly that many people have their priorities screwed up. But that's humans for you.

2. That has nothing to do with my point.

My point exactly. You're criticism is detached from what people's complaint is about Trump's wall plan.

 

[TNHarley]

1. I disagree. If he did show his tax returns(I mean, who really gives a fuck?) and it showed he paid nothing, people will bitch about it, while they do the SAME THING and blame a private citizen instead of the government who makes it LEGAL. Circle of stupidity

Personally, wouldn't blame people for complaining if he paid no income tax. It would demonstrate some of the things wrong with our current tax code. It would also lend itself to some incidentals as well. I've been one who has been saying for quite some time that people need to shut up with this 47% nonsense, because they're obtusely assuming a fixed linear divide, when in reality there is many a wealthy person amongst them.

It sounds like your complaint is simply widespread relevance. The question of Trump's taxes has direct or indirect relevance to many parts of the political discourse, but you want people to focus in on only one portion. Now that does not make sense to me. Don't get me wrong, I agree wholeheartedly that many people have their priorities screwed up. But that's humans for you.

2. That has nothing to do with my point.

My point exactly. You're criticism is detached from what people's complaint is about Trump's wall plan.

my complaint is partisanship
My OP isn't about complaints against the wall. Is it about the people that support the wall and actually want immigration fixed..

 

[SwimExpert]

Well, I guess I misunderstood that one.

 

[PredFan]

Example 1 : Trumps tax returns.
People seem to think he is hiding something. A lot of them think he doesn't pay much in taxes, if anything. Is it possible? Absolutely. But why be mad at him? Have you ever taken a credit? Its pretty much the same thing.. Why not be mad at our complex tax code that allows loopholes? Wouldn't a simpler tax code solve that?

Example 2 : Building a wall.
Why not just focus on ending incentive and be done with it? What do you think brings illegals here? Scenery?

There are many more, but these are two good ones, IMO.

You want to know what my answer is? Partisan politics.
Like the immigration thing, people want it fixed. They are done with it.. But then vote for a party that has granted amnesty to more people than the other? What sense does that make? It makes no sense, that's how much. Just more partisan politics. So they cling to an idea that fails to solve the actual problem, so that the illegal problem wont be solved. But as long as it keeps donors and the Chamber of Commerce happy, right? As long as they have that R, who gives a shit?

I am so glad we have more independents every day!

Because if they attacked the cause, it wouldn't further agendas or political careers. It's just that simple.

 

[PredFan]

Let me preface my point with a fact: Trump hasn't refused to release his tax returns, he is being audited and his lawyer has advised him not to.

My point is this: IMO, the only real way Trump could be hurt by his tax forms is if they show that he really isn't a billionaire. That he isn't worth the money he claims. That would undermine the belief that he's a good businessman. I don't think that anything else on his taxes could really hurt him.

 

[TNHarley]

Example 1 : Trumps tax returns.
People seem to think he is hiding something. A lot of them think he doesn't pay much in taxes, if anything. Is it possible? Absolutely. But why be mad at him? Have you ever taken a credit? Its pretty much the same thing.. Why not be mad at our complex tax code that allows loopholes? Wouldn't a simpler tax code solve that?

Example 2 : Building a wall.
Why not just focus on ending incentive and be done with it? What do you think brings illegals here? Scenery?

There are many more, but these are two good ones, IMO.

You want to know what my answer is? Partisan politics.
Like the immigration thing, people want it fixed. They are done with it.. But then vote for a party that has granted amnesty to more people than the other? What sense does that make? It makes no sense, that's how much. Just more partisan politics. So they cling to an idea that fails to solve the actual problem, so that the illegal problem wont be solved. But as long as it keeps donors and the Chamber of Commerce happy, right? As long as they have that R, who gives a shit?

I am so glad we have more independents every day!

Because if they attacked the cause, it wouldn't further agendas or political careers. It's just that simple.

I think we are traveling down the same road!

 

[Iceweasel]

Example 1 : Trumps tax returns.
People seem to think he is hiding something. A lot of them think he doesn't pay much in taxes, if anything. Is it possible? Absolutely. But why be mad at him? Have you ever taken a credit? Its pretty much the same thing.. Why not be mad at our complex tax code that allows loopholes? Wouldn't a simpler tax code solve that?

Example 2 : Building a wall.
Why not just focus on ending incentive and be done with it? What do you think brings illegals here? Scenery?

There are many more, but these are two good ones, IMO.

You want to know what my answer is? Partisan politics.
Like the immigration thing, people want it fixed. They are done with it.. But then vote for a party that has granted amnesty to more people than the other? What sense does that make? It makes no sense, that's how much. Just more partisan politics. So they cling to an idea that fails to solve the actual problem, so that the illegal problem wont be solved. But as long as it keeps donors and the Chamber of Commerce happy, right? As long as they have that R, who gives a shit?

I am so glad we have more independents every day!

It isn't partisan politics so much as ideological differences. Political parties are how ideologies spread or are beaten back. Having an R or D isn't indicative on who they are. Both can and do support the status quo. The Republican Party is the only one with ANY conservatives though.

A tax reduction isn't credit unless you are very low income, some get more than they payed if anything. Businesses have deductions, that means they spent money on their business, tools, buildings, ads, etc. If you spent $10,000 on your business your income was $10,000. My guess is that Trump invests heavily in property.

I do the same thing except on a slightly smaller scale. I buy more tools rather than have a higher income and pay more taxes.

 

[TNHarley]

Example 1 : Trumps tax returns.
People seem to think he is hiding something. A lot of them think he doesn't pay much in taxes, if anything. Is it possible? Absolutely. But why be mad at him? Have you ever taken a credit? Its pretty much the same thing.. Why not be mad at our complex tax code that allows loopholes? Wouldn't a simpler tax code solve that?

Example 2 : Building a wall.
Why not just focus on ending incentive and be done with it? What do you think brings illegals here? Scenery?

There are many more, but these are two good ones, IMO.

You want to know what my answer is? Partisan politics.
Like the immigration thing, people want it fixed. They are done with it.. But then vote for a party that has granted amnesty to more people than the other? What sense does that make? It makes no sense, that's how much. Just more partisan politics. So they cling to an idea that fails to solve the actual problem, so that the illegal problem wont be solved. But as long as it keeps donors and the Chamber of Commerce happy, right? As long as they have that R, who gives a shit?

I am so glad we have more independents every day!

It isn't partisan politics so much as ideological differences. Political parties are how ideologies spread or are beaten back. Having an R or D isn't indicative on who they are. Both can and do support the status quo. The Republican Party is the only one with ANY conservatives though.

A tax reduction isn't credit unless you are very low income, some get more than they payed if anything. Businesses have deductions, that means they spent money on their business, tools, buildings, ads, etc. If you spent $10,000 on your business your income was $10,000. My guess is that Trump invests heavily in property.

I do the same thing except on a slightly smaller scale. I buy more tools rather than have a higher income and pay more taxes.

Its only part of their ideology because its what they hear. Like I said, it wont even go after the cause.. which is how you fix things. You cant fix a leaky water pipe by drying up the water..
I know there are differences, but its the same principle.. wouldn't you think?

 

[Iceweasel]

Example 1 : Trumps tax returns.
People seem to think he is hiding something. A lot of them think he doesn't pay much in taxes, if anything. Is it possible? Absolutely. But why be mad at him? Have you ever taken a credit? Its pretty much the same thing.. Why not be mad at our complex tax code that allows loopholes? Wouldn't a simpler tax code solve that?

Example 2 : Building a wall.
Why not just focus on ending incentive and be done with it? What do you think brings illegals here? Scenery?

There are many more, but these are two good ones, IMO.

You want to know what my answer is? Partisan politics.
Like the immigration thing, people want it fixed. They are done with it.. But then vote for a party that has granted amnesty to more people than the other? What sense does that make? It makes no sense, that's how much. Just more partisan politics. So they cling to an idea that fails to solve the actual problem, so that the illegal problem wont be solved. But as long as it keeps donors and the Chamber of Commerce happy, right? As long as they have that R, who gives a shit?

I am so glad we have more independents every day!

It isn't partisan politics so much as ideological differences. Political parties are how ideologies spread or are beaten back. Having an R or D isn't indicative on who they are. Both can and do support the status quo. The Republican Party is the only one with ANY conservatives though.

A tax reduction isn't credit unless you are very low income, some get more than they payed if anything. Businesses have deductions, that means they spent money on their business, tools, buildings, ads, etc. If you spent $10,000 on your business your income was $10,000. My guess is that Trump invests heavily in property.

I do the same thing except on a slightly smaller scale. I buy more tools rather than have a higher income and pay more taxes.

Its only part of their ideology because its what they hear. Like I said, it wont even go after the cause.. which is how you fix things. You cant fix a leaky water pipe by drying up the water..
I know there are differences, but its the same principle.. wouldn't you think?

I think we are having two different conversations. I didn't even touch the wall.

 

[TNHarley]

Example 1 : Trumps tax returns.
People seem to think he is hiding something. A lot of them think he doesn't pay much in taxes, if anything. Is it possible? Absolutely. But why be mad at him? Have you ever taken a credit? Its pretty much the same thing.. Why not be mad at our complex tax code that allows loopholes? Wouldn't a simpler tax code solve that?

Example 2 : Building a wall.
Why not just focus on ending incentive and be done with it? What do you think brings illegals here? Scenery?

There are many more, but these are two good ones, IMO.

You want to know what my answer is? Partisan politics.
Like the immigration thing, people want it fixed. They are done with it.. But then vote for a party that has granted amnesty to more people than the other? What sense does that make? It makes no sense, that's how much. Just more partisan politics. So they cling to an idea that fails to solve the actual problem, so that the illegal problem wont be solved. But as long as it keeps donors and the Chamber of Commerce happy, right? As long as they have that R, who gives a shit?

I am so glad we have more independents every day!

It isn't partisan politics so much as ideological differences. Political parties are how ideologies spread or are beaten back. Having an R or D isn't indicative on who they are. Both can and do support the status quo. The Republican Party is the only one with ANY conservatives though.

A tax reduction isn't credit unless you are very low income, some get more than they payed if anything. Businesses have deductions, that means they spent money on their business, tools, buildings, ads, etc. If you spent $10,000 on your business your income was $10,000. My guess is that Trump invests heavily in property.

I do the same thing except on a slightly smaller scale. I buy more tools rather than have a higher income and pay more taxes.

Its only part of their ideology because its what they hear. Like I said, it wont even go after the cause.. which is how you fix things. You cant fix a leaky water pipe by drying up the water..
I know there are differences, but its the same principle.. wouldn't you think?

I think we are having two different conversations. I didn't even touch the wall.

Who said I was being specific? I just tried to incorporate your first paragraph into the OP.

 

[Indeependent]

Most people are really dumb.

Most people are ignorant because our educational system is not objective.
We need to teach Political Science AND Political Reality.

 

[The Great Goose]

Most people are really dumb.

Most people are ignorant because our educational system is not objective.
We need to teach Political Science AND Political Reality.

They tried that in Australia. It doesn't work. Believe me.

 

[G.T.]

I think there's more on tax returns than how much taxes you've paid in fed. Just a hunch, been doing my own 4 quite a bit.

 

[TNHarley]

I think there's more on tax returns than how much taxes you've paid in fed. Just a hunch, been doing my own 4 quite a bit.

I know. Me too. It just seems that's the main reason for attack.