Why aren't more people Libertarian?

[LibertyForAll]

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The Libertarians don't (or don't want to) see the opportunity staring them square in the face: an opening to promote cost-efficient, effective government and a moderate/liberal approach to social issues. There's a ton of votes waiting for such a strategy.

Maybe they don't want the responsibility of actually having to govern. Screaming platitudes sure is a lot easier.

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I don't think this is it at all. There are many highly motivated liberty-minded people out there now and we have just been shown the door by the Neo-Cons in the GOP so I think you will start seeing more and more people turn to the Libertarian party as an alternative over the next few years. Personally I was hoping that Mitt Romney would have won so that we could show the stark contrast between what Republicans say and what they do. Then maybe we win over some of the Tea Party crowd and Independents that want real change.

Overall I am optimistic but the challenges of facing this Duopoly backed by the MIC are immense they have the propaganda machine in place and the money to work 24/7.

 

[editec]

Divide all the world's wealth equally between every man women and child on earth and THEN I'll be a libertarian demanding that we live in a meritocracy.

Until we all start at the same place the belief that Libertarianism is anything other than "I got mine, fuck you" sentiment rings false to most of us.

THAT is why more of us are not libertarians, sport.

 

[LibertyForAll]

Divide all the world's wealth equally between every man women and child on earth and THEN I'll be a libertarian demanding that we live in a meritocracy.

Until we all start at the same place the belief that Libertarianism is anything other than "I got mine, fuck you" sentiment rings false to most of us.

THAT is why more of us are not libertarians, sport.

If that did happen then things would not remain equal for long. There will be those who are smarter or luckier than their fellows. Those that are willing to work harder and those that aren't willing to work at all. Just like now. Those that have the drive to succeed will and those that don't will fail. The problem is that people expect life to be fair. It isn't. Get over it already. Everyone faces adversity in their lives but some handle it better and yeah some are born into money and have it easy but so what? Who am I to begrudge them their good fortune? People need to stop worrying about what other people have and start trying to improve their own lives.

If all libertarians were rich as you seem to think then why does all the money go to the Dems and pubs?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Divide all the world's wealth equally between every man women and child on earth and THEN I'll be a libertarian demanding that we live in a meritocracy.

Until we all start at the same place the belief that Libertarianism is anything other than "I got mine, fuck you" sentiment rings false to most of us.

THAT is why more of us are not libertarians, sport.

I'm willing to bet that one generation after you divide up the world's wealth as you say that we will be in the exact same position we are now.

Most people will piss it away and some will prosper. Who will you blame for the results then?

 

[Paulie]

Divide all the world's wealth equally between every man women and child on earth and THEN I'll be a libertarian demanding that we live in a meritocracy.

Until we all start at the same place the belief that Libertarianism is anything other than "I got mine, fuck you" sentiment rings false to most of us.

THAT is why more of us are not libertarians, sport.

If that did happen then things would not remain equal for long. There will be those who are smarter or luckier than their fellows. Those that are willing to work harder and those that aren't willing to work at all. Just like now. Those that have the drive to succeed will and those that don't will fail. The problem is that people expect life to be fair. It isn't. Get over it already. Everyone faces adversity in their lives but some handle it better and yeah some are born into money and have it easy but so what? Who am I to begrudge them their good fortune? People need to stop worrying about what other people have and start trying to improve their own lives.

If all libertarians were rich as you seem to think then why does all the money go to the Dems and pubs?

With enough legislation, life can be not just fair but PERFECT.

 

[editec]

Divide all the world's wealth equally between every man women and child on earth and THEN I'll be a libertarian demanding that we live in a meritocracy.

Until we all start at the same place the belief that Libertarianism is anything other than "I got mine, fuck you" sentiment rings false to most of us.

THAT is why more of us are not libertarians, sport.

If that did happen then things would not remain equal for long.

Undoubtably true.

So the fuck what?

Clearly things are SO unequal now the idea that we'll just pretend that state of massively unequal affairs isn't screwing people right now is childish and ignorant beyond belief.

There will be those who are smarter or luckier than their fellows. Those that are willing to work harder and those that aren't willing to work at all. Just like now.

NOT REMOTELY just like "now".

NOW we are in a society where some people have EVERY advantage and some people have every DISADVANTAGE.

And it takes a kind of LIBERTARIAN BLINDNESS to imagine that that doesn't dramatically effect outcomes in people's lives AND in the society as a whole, too

The problem is that people expect life to be fair.

Nobody expects life to be fair.

That's one of those canards you LIBERTOPIANS love to cleave to.

But there are degrees of UNFAIRNESS that no sane society can ignore if we want to have a fuctional society that is NOT a FEUDAL nightmare.

Who am I to begrudge them their good fortune?

Begrudement has nothing to do with having a sane society.

There's another of those cherished myths that folks like yourself desperately like to ascribe to anyone who thinks beyond your pathetic Libertarian conceits.

People need to stop worrying about what other people have and start trying to improve their own lives.

Oh, do grow up. This isn't fucking kindergarden, lad.

If all libertarians were rich as you seem to think...

Lad, you are NOT the person to tell me what I think.

I am the person to tell YOU what I think.

Stop beating up straw men of your own imagination and respond to what I write not what you WISH I'd written.

...then why does all the money go to the Dems and pubs?

Say what?

Stick to the subject.

TRY to thinking about what is written in response to you instead of emoting what you WISH people were saying.

It's called haVING AN intellectual honest DISCUSSION and believe me, practice it here and these discussions will be every so much more fruitful

 

[bripat9643]

Divide all the world's wealth equally between every man women and child on earth and THEN I'll be a libertarian demanding that we live in a meritocracy.

Until we all start at the same place the belief that Libertarianism is anything other than "I got mine, fuck you" sentiment rings false to most of us.

THAT is why more of us are not libertarians, sport.

What makes you think you're entitled to anyone else's stuff?

All you're doing is demanding liek some petulant child that other people hand over to you what they have earned.

 

[JakeStarkey]

bripat simply wants to squat on his 40 acres. Let him. Cut off electricity and water. Cut of fire and police protection. If we won't pay his country taxes, he can't drive on the county roads. Let him provide for himself on his forty acres.

Make sure his GPS coordinates and physical address with a map his posted on the internet.

 

[LibertyForAll]

Divide all the world's wealth equally between every man women and child on earth and THEN I'll be a libertarian demanding that we live in a meritocracy.

Until we all start at the same place the belief that Libertarianism is anything other than "I got mine, fuck you" sentiment rings false to most of us.

THAT is why more of us are not libertarians, sport.

Undoubtably true.

So the fuck what?

Clearly things are SO unequal now the idea that we'll just pretend that state of massively unequal affairs isn't screwing people right now is childish and ignorant beyond belief.





NOT REMOTELY just like "now".

NOW we are in a society where some people have EVERY advantage and some people have every DISADVANTAGE.

And it takes a kind of LIBERTARIAN BLINDNESS to imagine that that doesn't dramatically effect outcomes in people's lives AND in the society as a whole, too




Nobody expects life to be fair.

That's one of those canards you LIBERTOPIANS love to cleave to.

But there are degrees of UNFAIRNESS that no sane society can ignore if we want to have a fuctional society that is NOT a FEUDAL nightmare.





Begrudement has nothing to do with having a sane society.

There's another of those cherished myths that folks like yourself desperately like to ascribe to anyone who thinks beyond your pathetic Libertarian conceits.



Oh, do grow up. This isn't fucking kindergarden, lad.



Lad, you are NOT the person to tell me what I think.

I am the person to tell YOU what I think.

Stop beating up straw men of your own imagination and respond to what I write not what you WISH I'd written.

...then why does all the money go to the Dems and pubs?

Say what?

Stick to the subject.

TRY to thinking about what is written in response to you instead of emoting what you WISH people were saying.

It's called haVING AN intellectual honest DISCUSSION and believe me, practice it here and these discussions will be every so much more fruitful

You said libertarians have a "I got mine, Fuck You!" sentiment. That implies that libertarians feel they have achieved success and don't care about other people. Both of these statements are false, maybe some feel that way, I can't speak for everyone but I am not rich, I do care about other people and I am a libertarian.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Many "libertarians" here on the Board seem to not be as developed as you in your caring for other people, LibertyForAll.

 

[Some Guy]

You said libertarians have a "I got mine, Fuck You!" sentiment. That implies that libertarians feel they have achieved success and don't care about other people. Both of these statements are false, maybe some feel that way, I can't speak for everyone but I am not rich, I do care about other people and I am a libertarian.

I think libertarians care about other people who deserve to be cared about. If you're going to work hard, support yourself and be a good person and member of society, then sure: why shouldn't you be cared for? If you're going to look to freeload, be an ass and just cause trouble, then fuck you.

Libertarians prefer less government administered stuff because people should be expected to be responsible for themselves. In addition, people are expected to be good people and help those in need. So when safety nets are needed, it's on the good will of the good people that make up the society.

As with any society, you're going to have bad apples and people that look to game the system. Libertarians seem to prefer that the freeloader who wants to try to live off the fruits of someone else's labor either find someone willing to support their ass out of their own free will or be up shit creek without a paddle. The flip side is also true: the onus of protecting the public in general from assholes that would look to take advantage of people falls more heavily on the individual, not government regulation and oversight.

 

[occupied]

You said libertarians have a "I got mine, Fuck You!" sentiment. That implies that libertarians feel they have achieved success and don't care about other people. Both of these statements are false, maybe some feel that way, I can't speak for everyone but I am not rich, I do care about other people and I am a libertarian.

I think libertarians care about other people who deserve to be cared about. If you're going to work hard, support yourself and be a good person and member of society, then sure: why shouldn't you be cared for? If you're going to look to freeload, be an ass and just cause trouble, then fuck you.

Libertarians prefer less government administered stuff because people should be expected to be responsible for themselves. In addition, people are expected to be good people and help those in need. So when safety nets are needed, it's on the good will of the good people that make up the society.

As with any society, you're going to have bad apples and people that look to game the system. Libertarians seem to prefer that the freeloader who wants to try to live off the fruits of someone else's labor either find someone willing to support their ass out of their own free will or be up shit creek without a paddle. The flip side is also true: the onus of protecting the public in general from assholes that would look to take advantage of people falls more heavily on the individual, not government regulation and oversight.

To many of these "libertarians" freeloaders are everyone who gets some sort of public assistance when the hard reality is that vast numbers of people work like dogs and still qualify because wages have stagnated for decades whereas public assistance sort of keeps pace with inflation. Additionally they do not seem to have a high opinion of minimum wage laws so it seems they are just fine with further efforts to depress wages and benefits. Overall the sense I get is that they are anti-worker as well as anti-poor and would short circuit the tenuous avenues available to advancement and upward mobility in what they sometimes like to call a meritocracy.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

That is one bitter clinging dogmatic, right there. Same old story over and over and over. You can sit here and run it down to the very root on libertarianism and it wont change a thing. Sometimes referred to as "pissing up a rope".

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, TakeAStepBack is pissing down the rope. The hope of libertarianism is the hope of failure.

 

[GoneBezerk]

The majority of GOP voters understand national defense is important, so the extremist crowd of the GOP loses support in primaries when they blame Middle East problems on the US/Israel and that Iran is really, really a nice country if we just ignore them.

Throw in their extreme views on personal freedoms like using drugs, doing whatever you like if it just feels good, etc.....they are just liberals that don't like taxes and big Govt, thus why they are rejected within the GOP.

 

[bripat9643]

bripat simply wants to squat on his 40 acres. Let him. Cut off electricity and water. Cut of fire and police protection. If we won't pay his country taxes, he can't drive on the county roads. Let him provide for himself on his forty acres.

Make sure his GPS coordinates and physical address with a map his posted on the internet.

That will be fine with me, Fakey, so long as you offer the same deal to everyone else and allow us to contract with one another to provide ourselves with what we need.

 

[JakeStarkey]

GB has this part right. Where he is wrong is that he thinks Obama does not back Israel. GB is wrong.

 

[bripat9643]

You said libertarians have a "I got mine, Fuck You!" sentiment. That implies that libertarians feel they have achieved success and don't care about other people. Both of these statements are false, maybe some feel that way, I can't speak for everyone but I am not rich, I do care about other people and I am a libertarian.

I certainly don't give a fuck about all the ticks on the ass of society who think they're entitled to a large chunk of everything I earn.

 

[JakeStarkey]

bripat is one of those sucking-hard ticks he talks about.

 

[bripat9643]

bripat is one of those sucking-hard ticks he talks about.

How am I a tick, Fakey? Who am I sucking off of?