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Seriously, why aren't there more Libertarians out there?
Is it because people don't know what Libertarians stand for?
It's because libertarians tend to be the worst kind of advertisement for their ideology, they swing wildly from incredibly permissive on big business to downright fascist on things like labor unions. American libertarians even seem to hate the ideology of the European libertarians on which they are based. In short they seem to be mainly engaged in disavowing all social responsibility and have zero regard for anyone's freedom other than their own.
Um, how about NO?
We don't have a problem with unions. Workers are free to unite however they want. What we have a problem with is government colluding with them.
The retarded American libertarianism that rejects all government power as leftist is not in any way an accepted theory in the social sciences, Beck invented that shit and he never even went to school.
Except that's not the position of Beck or Libertarians. So why do you feel the need to lie about their positions?
Several reasons I think. For starters, some people simply disagree with what we have to say. Obviously you can't convince everybody you're right, so there is that. That aside, however, I think it boils down to a couple key things.
Many people, maybe even most people, have no idea what a libertarian is, meaning that they've never even heard the word before. I can't tell you how many times I've told people I'm a libertarian and they say "What's that?" Then there's a lot of misinformation out there, and many of the replies in this thread are evidence of this. I walked into my history class a few weeks ago and the professor had written on the board the words "Conservative" and "Liberal," and underneath both words was the word "Libertarian." He made the case that libertarians can either be conservative or liberal, rather than having their own distinct ideology. Then he told the class that the greatest promoter of libertarianism from the mid-20th century was probably William F. Buckley. Hopefully I don't have to explain why that's ridiculous. I couldn't believe it, but that's what the rest of the students in that class took away from him about libertarianism, my protests not withstanding.
Also, I think libertarianism is a bit of a shock to the system even when it's not being demagogued by charlatans. Our positions are radically different from what you get with your typical liberal or conservative, and some people just can't conceive that what we're saying is possible. People in general, myself and all other libertarians included, are not as open to new or different ideas as they would like to believe.
The retarded American libertarianism that rejects all government power as leftist is not in any way an accepted theory in the social sciences, Beck invented that shit and he never even went to school.
Because it's easier to just sit back and cheer the American League (Republican) or the National League (Democrats).Seriously, why aren't there more Libertarians out there?
Is it because people don't know what Libertarians stand for?
Seriously, why aren't there more Libertarians out there?
Is it because people don't know what Libertarians stand for?
It's because libertarians tend to be the worst kind of advertisement for their ideology, they swing wildly from incredibly permissive on big business to downright fascist on things like labor unions. American libertarians even seem to hate the ideology of the European libertarians on which they are based. In short they seem to be mainly engaged in disavowing all social responsibility and have zero regard for anyone's freedom other than their own.
Um, how about NO?
We don't have a problem with unions. Workers are free to unite however they want. What we have a problem with is government colluding with them.
Well, you left out the other side of the coin:
Libertarians believe in an unfettered free market.
I'm not certain the USA would be better off with Standard Oil owning every refinery, rail road, and steel mill in the nation.
See above for my invitation to sell your snakeoil to such a clueless neophyte as myself rather than just dismissing my obviously erroneous assumptions based on thousands of discussions with libertarians in less guarded topics.Several reasons I think. For starters, some people simply disagree with what we have to say........
The retarded American libertarianism that rejects all government power as leftist is not in any way an accepted theory in the social sciences, Beck invented that shit and he never even went to school.
See above regarding demagoguery and charlatans.
The retarded American libertarianism that rejects all government power as leftist is not in any way an accepted theory in the social sciences, Beck invented that shit and he never even went to school.
Except that's not the position of Beck or Libertarians. So why do you feel the need to lie about their positions?
Well set me straight there professor, tell me how that is not the position of scores of self described libertarians I have talked to on this and other boards?
All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes
Why is freedom nuts?
Total Freedom = Survival of the fittest.
Our people dont want survival of the fittest.
The 18 year old college girl who gets raped should not have to track down her attacker, or her father have to do it. In TOTAL FREEDOM, that would be the case. Vigilante justice.
I DONT WANT to just hope and pray that the food company I bought from is being honest in their ingredient list. If they have aspartame in their shit, I want to know. But only a govt body is gonna force that. I suppose a private sector watchdog could do...BUT that hasn't happened yet.
People have odd definitions of freedom.
See above for my invitation to sell your snakeoil to such a clueless neophyte as myself rather than just dismissing my obviously erroneous assumptions based on thousands of discussions with libertarians in less guarded topics.The retarded American libertarianism that rejects all government power as leftist is not in any way an accepted theory in the social sciences, Beck invented that shit and he never even went to school.
See above regarding demagoguery and charlatans.
Um, how about NO?
We don't have a problem with unions. Workers are free to unite however they want. What we have a problem with is government colluding with them.
Well, you left out the other side of the coin:
Libertarians believe in an unfettered free market.
I'm not certain the USA would be better off with Standard Oil owning every refinery, rail road, and steel mill in the nation.
Why? Standard Oil revolutionized the oil industry and lowered the cost of oil considerably, which greatly benefited American consumers.
Except that's not the position of Beck or Libertarians. So why do you feel the need to lie about their positions?
Well set me straight there professor, tell me how that is not the position of scores of self described libertarians I have talked to on this and other boards?
Your description is a little broad. Libertarians do NOT "reject all government"
Libertarians believe only federal programs and services described in the U.S. constitution should exist.
All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes
Platform | Libertarian Party
Except that's not the position of Beck or Libertarians. So why do you feel the need to lie about their positions?
Well set me straight there professor, tell me how that is not the position of scores of self described libertarians I have talked to on this and other boards?
Your description is a little broad. Libertarians do NOT "reject all government"
Libertarians believe only federal programs and services described in the U.S. constitution should exist.
All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes
Platform | Libertarian Party
Total Freedom = Survival of the fittest.
Our people dont want survival of the fittest.
The 18 year old college girl who gets raped should not have to track down her attacker, or her father have to do it. In TOTAL FREEDOM, that would be the case. Vigilante justice.
I DONT WANT to just hope and pray that the food company I bought from is being honest in their ingredient list. If they have aspartame in their shit, I want to know. But only a govt body is gonna force that. I suppose a private sector watchdog could do...BUT that hasn't happened yet.
People have odd definitions of freedom.
Please explain. The way I see it, if there is a sliding scale between absolute freedom and absolute imprisonment, then libertarianism increases as you get closer to absolute freedom.
And ABSOLUTE freedom means no restraints..on good or bad behavior. If there is a loner, homeless guy with no friends or family, and Im totally free (with no govt laws restraining me) then he is at my free will. I can rob him, kill him or help him and give him shelter. Either way, Im free to do that. And he's free to do the same to me. To restrain those options is to take away a bit of freedom.
Seriously, why aren't there more Libertarians out there?
Is it because people don't know what Libertarians stand for?
Seriously, why aren't there more Libertarians out there?
Is it because people don't know what Libertarians stand for?
Well, you left out the other side of the coin:
Libertarians believe in an unfettered free market.
I'm not certain the USA would be better off with Standard Oil owning every refinery, rail road, and steel mill in the nation.
Why? Standard Oil revolutionized the oil industry and lowered the cost of oil considerably, which greatly benefited American consumers.
I agree that it served a purpose.
So did mules, but I don't think making them the universal mode of transportation would really work out very well.
Seriously, why aren't there more Libertarians out there?
Is it because people don't know what Libertarians stand for?
It's because libertarians tend to be the worst kind of advertisement for their ideology, they swing wildly from incredibly permissive on big business to downright fascist on things like labor unions. American libertarians even seem to hate the ideology of the European libertarians on which they are based. In short they seem to be mainly engaged in disavowing all social responsibility and have zero regard for anyone's freedom other than their own.
^What he said^
Well set me straight there professor, tell me how that is not the position of scores of self described libertarians I have talked to on this and other boards?
Your description is a little broad. Libertarians do NOT "reject all government"
Libertarians believe only federal programs and services described in the U.S. constitution should exist.
All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes
Platform | Libertarian Party
So the FBI, ATF, CIA and FEMA should not exist? The constitution allows the federal govt to have an army. Those are all civlian law enforcement/aid groups.
I think MOST people like having the FBI, CIA, ATF and FEMA in existence. The FBI and FEMA at least.
The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter threats to domestic security. This requirement must not take priority over maintaining the civil liberties of our citizens. The Constitution and Bill of Rights shall not be suspended even during time of war. Intelligence agencies that legitimately seek to preserve the security of the nation must be subject to oversight and transparency. We oppose the government's use of secret classifications to keep from the public information that it should have, especially that which shows that the government has violated the law.
