Who wants to defend the Federal Income Tax?

[Robert W]

Taxes enable us to live in a Civilized Society

Roads, Infrastructure, Sewage systems, clean water, safe food, security, fire protection

Talking about Fire Protection, what is the truth is not even the state nor the Feds provide the bulk of fire protection. I was talking to a former Fire Captain who explained it to me. He said the bulk of fire protection is by citizens manning a non tax group called local fire departments.
My own father was chief over a local fire department who agreed.

Since I worked as a Broker with builders of homes, and appraised many homes and properties in all areas close to the SF Bay Area, I know that sewers are paid for first by the builders who include it in the cost to you of the home. Same with roads and sewers. They provide for us all in tracts of homes, the roads you drive on and sewers. And the home buyers also pay that in the cost. Water lines are also constructed by the Builder. Where a City provides the water, of course your taxes pay the city. Safe Food ... well how many of you realize that due to Fed regulations you eat bugs in your produce? You have eaten thousands of bugs and thanks to the Feds.

 

[Robert W]

Unfortunately, the Democrats let the tax issue get away from them. When most Americans associated the Democrats with good things, paid for by the rich, and threatened by the Republicans, the Democrats dominated the United States.

YES, and I blame FDR for starting this road to hell.

 

[dblack]

The Road to Perdition Is Patrician

Limit inheritances to $100,000 and ban all trust funds. There would be no rational need for any other taxes. Besides, eliminating birth privileges would free up talent to reach its most productive way, which the HeirHeads block in many different ways.

I guess you're assuming the government gets the remainder, eh? It would be trivial to avoid.

 

[Robert W]

The Road to Perdition Is Patrician

Limit inheritances to $100,000 and ban all trust funds. There would be no rational need for any other taxes. Besides, eliminating birth privileges would free up talent to reach its most productive level, which the HeirHeads block in many different ways.

Actually in CA, though you will pay no Federal inheritance taxes below a level, the state taxes you as if all of it as income. Check your own state to see what they do.

This is the same bullshit argument used to pimp the "employer's share" of FICA....The employee still pays the tax, as a cost to the employer.

No, the employer is stuck paying that share.

 

[rightwinger]

Talking about Fire Protection, what is the truth is not even the state nor the Feds provide the bulk of fire protection. I was talking to a former Fire Captain who explained it to me. He said the bulk of fire protection is by citizens manning a non tax group called local fire departments.

Those local volunteer fire companies are not free.
They cannot afford million dollar fire trucks, they cannot pay to train and equip all their volunteers, they can’t afford the insurance
They are paid by local fire districts and subsidized by state grants

Your taxes at work

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[Robert W]

We the People select the size of the Government we need to provide the services we demand
That Government will be either local, state or federal depending on the service being provided

Weren't Democrats pissed off and saying Trump added a lot more Federal Workers?

 

[Robert W]

Those local volunteer fire companies are not free.
They cannot afford $500,000 fire trucks, they cannot pay to train and equip all their volunteers.
They are paid by local fire districts and subsidized by state grants

Your taxes at work

Not mostly. My dad was a local Fire Chief and he explained it to me. They can't afford the expensive fire trucks so that you told the truth about. And in Dads case, The CA State fire agencies trained the citizens that were in the department. Dad also trained them for free. State grants do help but how easy is it to get a grant? Big fire departments get new trucks and donate the old trucks to the citizen fire departments.

More: Dad never got paid a dime. The other guys under him also did not get paid. Nothing for them as benefits.

 

[Oddball]

No, the employer is stuck paying that share.

Never worked through a business model, have you?

You think that money just shoots out the employer's ass to pay "their share"?

 

[Robert W]

I am the smartest poster on USMB

What is your IQ since you brought this up?

 

[rightwinger]

Since I worked as a Broker with builders of homes, and appraised many homes and properties in all areas close to the SF Bay Area, I know that sewers are paid for first by the builders who include it in the cost to you of the home.

The home builder provides hook ups for the houses and a connection to the main line.
The communities sewer system and sewerage treatment plant is paid for by your taxes

More taxes making civilization possible

 

[Robert W]

Never worked through a business model, have you?

You think that money just shoots out the employer's ass to pay "their share"?

I have been on both sides of that fence. So of course I worked through business models. I even was on the Budget committee of a local Real Estate board where I dealth with huge incomes by the board.

The employer collects from those he services. In my case it was for some years firms that paid me for machine shop work. I paid the employees. They paid part of the FICA and me and my customers paid the rest of it.

In my next model I decided to bring into the firm independent contractors. And those paid all of the FICA.

 

[rightwinger]

Weren't Democrats pissed off and saying Trump added a lot more Federal Workers?

Never saw Trump add Federal Workers
I saw Bush create Homeland Security which added many more workers.
I did not see Obama add any

 

[Robert W]

The home builder provides hook ups for the houses and a connection to the main line.
The communities sewer system and sewerage treatment plant is paid for by your taxes

More taxes making civilization possible

The sewage plants are paid for by the city citizens. Even if they rent, as part of their rent, is paid for sewer uses. But at least in CA, the home builder pays first for the plumbing, the inspection fees and the costs associated with roads and sewer and water systems used by the citizens who buy the homes.

But take my dad for instance in CA, He paid to have the electricity to his rural home, paid for a septic tank system and did not get to use a treatment plant. Water was paid for by him. He pumped water to his home from a small creek on his property.

 

[Robert W]

Never saw Trump add Federal Workers
I saw Bush create Homeland Security which added many more workers.
I did not see Obama add any

Well this amuses me to hear that consolidation actually adds workers. How many did you say he added? Well you shock me claiming you were ever a Republican given how you think highly of only Democrats.

 

[Oddball]

I have been on both sides of that fence. So of course I worked through business models. I even was on the Budget committee of a local Real Estate board where I dealth with huge incomes by the board.

The employer collects from those he services. In my case it was for some years firms that paid me for machine shop work. I paid the employees. They paid part of the FICA and me and my customers paid the rest of it.

In my next model I decided to bring into the firm independent contractors. And those paid all of the FICA.

Does the "employer's share" come from the percentage devoted to raw materials?...overhead?...tools and equipment?....insurance?.....or.....labor?

 

[Robert W]

The home builder provides hook ups for the houses and a connection to the main line.
The communities sewer system and sewerage treatment plant is paid for by your taxes

More taxes making civilization possible

How many home builders have you done services for? I have both as a Realtor and also as an appraiser. You might be talking for your local area. I talk for California.

 

[rightwinger]

The CA State fire agencies trained the citizens that were in the department. Dad also trained them for free. State grants do help but how easy is it to get a grant? Big fire departments get new trucks and donate the old trucks to the citizen fire departments.

Still taxpayers paying for not only the trucks but the maintenance
Your Dad may have given local training but their formal training and certification is provided by the county or state. Once again paid by the taxpayer
Volunteers may work for free but are provided with health and life insurance.

 

[Robert W]

Does the "employer's share" come from the percentage devoted to raw materials?...overhead?...tools and equipment?....insurance?.....or.....labor?

The share used by the employer comes from his customers. FICA is not paid on raw materials.

 

[rightwinger]

How many home builders have you done services for? I have both as a Realtor and also as an appraiser. You might be talking for your local area. I talk for California.

I call Bull Shit
In a new development, the builder will pay for hook ups and a connection to the main sewer line.
No way do home builders provide a community with a sewer system and treatment plant

 

[Robert W]

Still taxpayers paying for not only the trucks but the maintenance
Your Dad may have given local training but their formal training and certification is provided by the county or state. Once again paid by the taxpayer
Volunteers may work for free but are provided with health and life insurance.

Well that is not what Dad told me. The maintenance was paid by the local area citizens from volunteer payments. ultimately the trucks that came from the States had been paid for by the state citizens But not in income taxes.

What you are pointing out is how the states kick in to help but this is not true for the Feds.

I did not discuss certifications with him. But as i recall his telling me, it was Cal Fire that volunteered to train them. The typical citizen simply lacks training on fighting fires. So experts train them.