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hell, more than half the time he doesnt even have the gonads to actually quote the one he is responding toI got slapped down? Where? care to explain this lie?
waiting? but then I'm always waiting for starkey becasue he nebver explains anything
Too bad, jakey: don't be stupid again.
starkey, until you can give concrete reasons for your points: you have not done that
Starkey is nothing more than a pathetic troll. I'm fully aware of that. he doesn't get to me at all. I totally know his game. It's been played by thousands before him, only better. Nothing of substance ever comes from him. watch, his response will be inane nothing.
You have to purchase those from the government. Obamacare forces you to buy a product from a company.Go tell your employer you don't want to buy SS or Medicare and let us know how that works out for ya.
So, the distinction that people are hanging their anti-constitutional hat on is the supplier?
Good!Short term memory loss? It was the republicans that scuttled the public option.
Until recently, you didn't have to purchase insurance from a company if you didn't want to. That freedom has been taken away.Aside from that, one has ALWAYS had to purchase health care from a company. AND we have always(in recent history) had to pay for others less fortunate medical care in taxes.
You mean the "freedom" to leach off of the public if you get sick or injured? Just like there is a responsibility to buy car insurance there should be a responsibility to not add to the outreageous costs of everyones medical expenses just because you "choose" to be irresponsible. Like it or not we live together and the only rational way to deal with some costs is to manage them colllectively. No one lives a whole life without some medical needs. Do you think you should be allowed to "Opt" out of police, Fire, street maitanance? etc?
Now that is a good argument, Bern80. However, everyone must have proof of insurance to own a car. To have folks "own" health care is no different.
Bern80, no one has legislated away the right for to own your insurance. Of course you can, and you will pay a small fee for doing so.
I'm waiting for Bf to finally admit that, in his own world view, Republicans are all evil who shouldn't even be allowed to vote, or maybe even exist. Democrats, on the other hand, well each and every one of them is just the personification of perfection.
I'm sure that's what MLK would think. And JFK. And maybe even Gandhi.
Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
Oh my fucking god you are so fucking retarded, bfgrn. Classical LIBERALISM IS THE EQUIVALENT OF MODERN CONSERVATISM. You are so fucking retarded its not even fun to point it out anymore.
on top of that, gladstone was a brit, and the british had different definitions. back then conservatism was loyalty to the crown, same as it was when john locke spoke of it. ITS IS KNOWN TODAY AS CLASSICAL LIBERALSM. modern liberalism's birth was during the new deal.
oh my god if i saw you in real life i'd punch you in your fat face so hard and it'd be worth it.
Now that is a good argument, Bern80. However, everyone must have proof of insurance to own a car. To have folks "own" health care is no different.
The government can certainly do so if Congress passes such a law and SCOTUS affirms it when the law is challenged. You certainly have the right to believe as you wish, but that has no force for anybody other than yourself.
Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
Oh my fucking god you are so fucking retarded, bfgrn. Classical LIBERALISM IS THE EQUIVALENT OF MODERN CONSERVATISM. You are so fucking retarded its not even fun to point it out anymore.
on top of that, gladstone was a brit, and the british had different definitions. back then conservatism was loyalty to the crown, same as it was when john locke spoke of it. ITS IS KNOWN TODAY AS CLASSICAL LIBERALSM. modern liberalism's birth was during the new deal.
oh my god if i saw you in real life i'd punch you in your fat face so hard and it'd be worth it.
OK Einstein, what happened to the 'conservatives' Gladstone talks about...did they just evaporate? Funny, F.A. Hayek who was a classic liberal and considered Gladstone one of the three greatest liberals felt compelled to write a whole essay disassociating himself from conservatism.
Why I Am Not a Conservative - By Nobel laureate F. A. Hayek
You right wing pea brains have tried to hijack liberalism. The only thing you hang your association on is 'Laissez-faire' economics. BUT, you pea brains don't even understand THAT. Corporate run government and corporate welfare and corporate subsidies that externalize costs is NOT 'Laissez-faire' ...it is Mussolini's fascism.
You right wing pea brains that call yourself 'conservatives' have NOTHING in common with liberalism. 'Conservatives' throughout man's existence have always been for an aristocracy, oligarchy and plutocracy.
I do think both terms; liberal and conservative; have been so redefinded as to render both meaningless when trying to compare either to what was back during Colonial times though.
Problem is, so many interpret it differently and claims to be so knowledgeable about it. I can ask about the "General Welfare" Clause and get at least 3-4 different interpretations, same for "Common Defense and still others will say crap like "Where in the Constitution do you have the right to do _________"(fill in the blank).
Why can't 300 million individuals all swim in the same directions? Because they are Individuals! That's why I lean so hard libertarian right there in a nut shell.
Problem is, so many interpret it differently and claims to be so knowledgeable about it. I can ask about the "General Welfare" Clause and get at least 3-4 different interpretations, same for "Common Defense and still others will say crap like "Where in the Constitution do you have the right to do _________"(fill in the blank).
Why can't 300 million individuals all swim in the same directions? Because they are Individuals! That's why I lean so hard libertarian right there in a nut shell.
I have noticed that basically two things happen when making laws and whether or not they are constitutional. a) in the legislative it isn't even brought up or considered whether what they want to pass is constitutional or not. b) when it is brought is where people start trying to 'interpret' things. It's not a hard document to understand. When/if people start 'interpreting' it's really code for 'we know this is unconstitutional, but we're gonna make are best effort to convince you it is anyway'.
JR, give a couple of examples on both sides. I am intrigued if we are unable to compare the terms today to the terms then. Or is it, perhaps, more appropriate to compare terms today in relation to those we associate Hamilton and Jefferson?
(joke from me asking you a week or so ago,lol).
No, your original premise is wrong. You aren't buying your social security or medicare from the government. It isn't a one-to-one transaction. Buying something means you own it. You don't own social security or medicare.
