Where are the protests?

[MaggieMae]

Have you read it?

I have and the interpretation is accurate.

You are apparently incapable of reading much of anything, including facts which debunk your "interpretation" which simply mirrors what somebody else on the far right has been shoving down your throat.

Oh I'm more than capable of reading, but I'm guessing that you haven't actually read the proposed bill yourself. If you had then you would now that your so-called debunking, hasn't debunked anything.

Answer this question. Will health coverage be mandated?

To an extent, that's the plan. If health insurance is reasonably affordable, people will sign up on their own. If not, a hardship exemption is proposed for those who truly can't afford any type of insurance at all. But just as certain people get away with having no car insurance (also mandated), there will continue to be those who refuse to get health insurance.

 

[keee keee]

are the people who want national health care the same people who are in favor of amnesty for Illegal aliens. These politicians just don't get it!!! We the voters are not in favor of either of these bills. I'll think about joining this national government health care system after the politicians and their families enroll in this system!!!!

 

[MaggieMae]

Where are the protests?

Now that word is getting out about the tactics being used by the right maybe there will be some.

If only it weren't so scary to see all these clowns acting like barbarians, I'd say let's just let them bury themselves. But I'm worried that other power grabbing countries will see this as another example of America's declining image as a super power and a great opportunity for a surreptitious bunch of thugs to launch a war somewhere that we can't avoid participating in.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You are apparently incapable of reading much of anything, including facts which debunk your "interpretation" which simply mirrors what somebody else on the far right has been shoving down your throat.

Oh I'm more than capable of reading, but I'm guessing that you haven't actually read the proposed bill yourself. If you had then you would now that your so-called debunking, hasn't debunked anything.

Answer this question. Will health coverage be mandated?

To an extent, that's the plan. If health insurance is reasonably affordable, people will sign up on their own. If not, a hardship exemption is proposed for those who truly can't afford any type of insurance at all. But just as certain people get away with having no car insurance (also mandated), there will continue to be those who refuse to get health insurance.

But what if you don't want it? I'm not currently nor have I ever been covered by health insurance. The govt. going to force to me to have it?

 

[MaggieMae]

On page 16 of the House bill: private insurance will become illegal. Insurance companies cannot write new policies, people will lose their existing policy if they change jobs, if they change coverage, or if they change prices. Once any aspect of your private health insurance changes after this bill goes into effect, you can't renew it. You have to go public option.

Okay, I took the time to read this section and I'm not sure how you came to that understanding.

Starting on page 16, the section in question states the rules for maintaining current coverage (rules to "grandfather" current coverage). It states that you can maintain your current coverage as long as:

You already have your coverage the day before the bill goes into effect and dependents of those who have coverage on the day before the bill goes into effect can also be covered.

If the insurance company attempts to change your policy or increase your rates- except for general premium increases approved by the insurance commissioner- then the policy loses its grandfathered status.

(Since a reduction in benefits or a hike in your premium would in effect change the current policy the individual chose to keep, they have not kept the same coverage due to the actions of the insurance company, not the government. I believe this is primarily intended to dissuade insurance companies from abusing customers who choose to stay with them.)

There is a 5 year grace period for current employment based health plans. After the 5 year period, they must meet the standards of a qualified health plan, including the essential benefits package.

(Part of the healthcare bill establishes minimal standards for insurance coverage which insurance companies must meet. This is a quality control measure to prevent health insurance from leaving large gaps in coverage, creating policy holders that are little better than uninsured, or not covering serious conditions that often are the biggest financial strain on hospitals and citizens.)

Individual policies that are not grandfathered, can only be purchased through the Health Insurance Exchange.

(The Health Insurance Exchange is a program which will be a one-stop shop for health insurance. It will require standardization of benefits packages so it is easier to compare prices and content. Plans purchased through the exchange will be subsidized to lower cost for individuals making up to 400% of the poverty level- about $43,000 for individuals, $88,000 for a family of four. The public plan option will also be offered through the Exchange, but would be just one option and not required for anyone to purchase or required to receive subsidized coverage.)​

So basically your comment, "you have to go public option" is just ignorance or bullshit as far as I can tell. Did you really come to that conclusion on your own? Perhaps I'm wrong. I will be more than happy to apologize if you would just quote the section that led you to this conclusion. I am fallible and may have missed it.

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1"

Which means, you can all keep your coverage, just as promised with exceptions. Those who currently have private coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.

This gets so tiresome. ^^YES THEY WILL^^!! As long as minimum standards for insurance coverage is provided by said PRIVATE INSURERS, they can buy those!!!! Jeezus!! R.E.A.D!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Immanuel]

snip...

So basically your comment, "you have to go public option" is just ignorance or bullshit as far as I can tell. Did you really come to that conclusion on your own? Perhaps I'm wrong. I will be more than happy to apologize if you would just quote the section that led you to this conclusion. I am fallible and may have missed it.

I completely disagree with your assessment.

The fact is right there in your post. Private insurers will simply not be able to write new policies. No new policies = no new business. Eventually, with people moving from job to job and employers shopping around, insurers will lose their clout and have no leg with which to negotiate with hospitals and their costs (if not all of ours) will go up. Within just a few years the insurance companies will be bankrupt and we will all be begging the government not to ration our doses of laxatives.

Immie

This is why you people get into trouble trying to pick only portions to rail about. That section dealt with rules for maintaining current coverage only. What part of that can't you grasp? It isn't talking about new insurance (insurers); it isn't talking about eliminating anyone's option to shop around. It is talking about 'grandfathering' the private insurance benefits you already have with the insurance provider you already have, period.

What part do you not understand, Maggie? Private insurers CANNOT write new policies. After the Grandfathered policy is gone there is NO OTHER OPTION! You must chose the governmental option. You have no choice. The policy will be like this...

You can choose from the following companies: ABC, LMNO&P or XYZ (just a short list) all from the pool.

You're benefits will be X

Your Cost will be Y.

Those are your options and your only options.

They have effectively eliminated competition in the industry and you and I are the ones who will lose. You will have one choice and only one choice. You will not be able to "shop around" for a policy that doesn't fit what the government insists you have nor will you be able to shop around for competitive rates. You will take what the government offers and you will like it.

What part of "private insurers cannot write new policies from Y1 D1" do you not understand? What part of that destroying the industry do you not understand? What part of that eliminating competition do you not understand? What part of that being bad for America do you not understand?

Immie

 

[Sinatra]

I completely disagree with your assessment.

The fact is right there in your post. Private insurers will simply not be able to write new policies. No new policies = no new business. Eventually, with people moving from job to job and employers shopping around, insurers will lose their clout and have no leg with which to negotiate with hospitals and their costs (if not all of ours) will go up. Within just a few years the insurance companies will be bankrupt and we will all be begging the government not to ration our doses of laxatives.

Immie

This is why you people get into trouble trying to pick only portions to rail about. That section dealt with rules for maintaining current coverage only. What part of that can't you grasp? It isn't talking about new insurance (insurers); it isn't talking about eliminating anyone's option to shop around. It is talking about 'grandfathering' the private insurance benefits you already have with the insurance provider you already have, period.

What part do you not understand, Maggie? Private insurers CANNOT write new policies. After the Grandfathered policy is gone there is NO OTHER OPTION! You must chose the governmental option. You have no choice. The policy will be like this...

You can choose from the following companies: ABC, LMNO&P or XYZ (just a short list) all from the pool.

You're benefits will be X

Your Cost will be Y.

Those are your options and your only options.

They have effectively eliminated competition in the industry and you and I are the ones who will lose. You will have one choice and only one choice. You will not be able to "shop around" for a policy that doesn't fit what the government insists you have nor will you be able to shop around for competitive rates. You will take what the government offers and you will like it.

What part of "private insurers cannot write new policies from Y1 D1" do you not understand? What part of that destroying the industry do you not understand? What part of that eliminating competition do you not understand? What part of that being bad for America do you not understand?

Immie

You are correct - and the repeated assertion by Obama that people will be able to keep their insurance, their doctor, etc, is a lie.

What Obama is attempting is a temporary short term hybrid version of state run health care - which will inevitably lead to single payer - state run health care. Private insurance as we know it will be eliminated.

 

[Immanuel]

You are correct - and the repeated assertion by Obama that people will be able to keep their insurance, their doctor, etc, is a lie.

What Obama is attempting is a temporary short term hybrid version of state run health care - which will inevitably lead to single payer - state run health care. Private insurance as we know it will be eliminated.

How do you eat an elephant?

One bite at a time.

He can't do it all at once, so one step at a time. And just like with Social Security once were in... there is no way out.

Immie

 

[MaggieMae]

App. 80% of Americans have health insurance. Of that number, nearly 80% are very happy with their coverage - so there is no real incentive to protest in favor of legislation that could alter the satisfaction of the vast majority of Americans regarding their private health insurance - in essence, there was never a "health care crisis".

As to rising costs, that could be remedied far more easily, and cheaply, with reforms at the state level where health care is currently regulated. (And if you think the costs are high when the state governments are handling the issue, how in the hell do you think the feds will make it any better?) Simply require that states compete with one another - allow people to shop policies from state to state. This would create even more competition within the market, and further incentivise lower cost policies. At present, competition resides within your state of residence, and in some cases, there are but a handful of insurance carriers that dominate the market and set price.

Vast reforms of Medicare and Medicaid are also essential - two federal programs that are among the greatest contributors to rising health costs in America...

,,,

As the Prego ad says, "It's in there..."

Medicare cost controls have been proposed by Republicans in the form of an independent board to implement cuts and remove that power from Congress (always reluctant to do it themselves). Also, the payment formula will be changed to cover quality instead of quantity (number of visits) fashioned after the Cleveland Clinic model.

One of the reasons only a handful of insurance carriers dominate the markets at the state level is because they, themselves, have driven out competition. And state legislators have protected these monopolies (Blue Cross the largest). When, because of their size they are capable of underbidding everyone else for large employer based contracts including state government employee health insurance, they can also call all the other shots, including restrictions. I agree that it's high time citizens had the opportunity to benefit from competition.

 

[MaggieMae]

Which means, you can all keep your coverage, just as promised with exceptions. Those who currently have private coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.

Where does it say that people will not be able to buy individual plans from private carriers? The portion you just quoted states that if you are not grandfathered in, you must purchase your insurance through the Exchange. It can still be an individual plan from a private carrier. The Exchange is just a clearinghouse that has rules for standardizing benefits packages so that consumers can more easily compare policies offered by various private insurance companies and also compare it to the public option.

So, once again, where does it say you must take the public option? That was your original claim. Or were you mistaken?

Once health coverage is mandated and it will be, what other option is there once they make private insurance illegal. The problem here is you're only seeing one paragraph and not seeing the entire proposal. Not all insurance policies are the same and there will be a governing body who decides which coverage is adequate and which is not. You will be required to show proof of coverage every year and if you fail to provide adequate coverage or you do not have coverage, you will be fined and enrolled into the public option program. You have no choice in the matter, it will become law.

Here's an article that lays out what you're asking and it's exactly what I've been saying.

IBD: Individual Private Health Insurance Illegal Under House Bill | NewsBusters.org

Lone -- you need to stop re-posting from right-wing blogsites.

 

[MaggieMae]

If America wants this health care "reform" so badly, why arent people protesting these politicians to get them to pass it. Instead we see the exact opposite.

If there are protests against, and none for, why do our politicians think its such a good idea to push this through Congress?

America does not want this HC reform.The protests are being addressed by letter email and phone to the reps of the citizens.
Reform is needed, forced political reform is not the way to do it.

I would rephrase that to say SOME Americans do not want it. Ironically, every poll out there says that MOST DO want cost containment at the private level, and that they DO see the need for some kind of government intervention.

But...it probably won't happen because people like you are louder than people like me.

 

[MaggieMae]

are the people who want national health care the same people who are in favor of amnesty for Illegal aliens. These politicians just don't get it!!! We the voters are not in favor of either of these bills. I'll think about joining this national government health care system after the politicians and their families enroll in this system!!!!

Yes yes, I know, I know...people like you probably figure the health care issue would resolve itself if we just shot all illegal immigrants on sight. A whole new meaning to killing two birds with one stone.

 

[MaggieMae]

Oh I'm more than capable of reading, but I'm guessing that you haven't actually read the proposed bill yourself. If you had then you would now that your so-called debunking, hasn't debunked anything.

Answer this question. Will health coverage be mandated?

To an extent, that's the plan. If health insurance is reasonably affordable, people will sign up on their own. If not, a hardship exemption is proposed for those who truly can't afford any type of insurance at all. But just as certain people get away with having no car insurance (also mandated), there will continue to be those who refuse to get health insurance.

But what if you don't want it? I'm not currently nor have I ever been covered by health insurance. The govt. going to force to me to have it?

Then you'll have to take your chances at the emergency room that they'll mend your broken body for free after you crash your pickup driving drunk.

 

[MaggieMae]

I completely disagree with your assessment.

The fact is right there in your post. Private insurers will simply not be able to write new policies. No new policies = no new business. Eventually, with people moving from job to job and employers shopping around, insurers will lose their clout and have no leg with which to negotiate with hospitals and their costs (if not all of ours) will go up. Within just a few years the insurance companies will be bankrupt and we will all be begging the government not to ration our doses of laxatives.

Immie

This is why you people get into trouble trying to pick only portions to rail about. That section dealt with rules for maintaining current coverage only. What part of that can't you grasp? It isn't talking about new insurance (insurers); it isn't talking about eliminating anyone's option to shop around. It is talking about 'grandfathering' the private insurance benefits you already have with the insurance provider you already have, period.

What part do you not understand, Maggie? Private insurers CANNOT write new policies. After the Grandfathered policy is gone there is NO OTHER OPTION! You must chose the governmental option. You have no choice. The policy will be like this...

You can choose from the following companies: ABC, LMNO&P or XYZ (just a short list) all from the pool.

You're benefits will be X

Your Cost will be Y.

Those are your options and your only options.

They have effectively eliminated competition in the industry and you and I are the ones who will lose. You will have one choice and only one choice. You will not be able to "shop around" for a policy that doesn't fit what the government insists you have nor will you be able to shop around for competitive rates. You will take what the government offers and you will like it.

What part of "private insurers cannot write new policies from Y1 D1" do you not understand? What part of that destroying the industry do you not understand? What part of that eliminating competition do you not understand? What part of that being bad for America do you not understand?

Immie

That misconception originally appeared in Investment Business Daily, and picked up by hundreds of bloggers. HOWEVER... even The conservative Heritage Foundation has admitted that the interpretation was in error. See if you can understand the scenario as written here:

PolitiFact | Private health insurance not banned on page 16 of the House bill

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Where does it say that people will not be able to buy individual plans from private carriers? The portion you just quoted states that if you are not grandfathered in, you must purchase your insurance through the Exchange. It can still be an individual plan from a private carrier. The Exchange is just a clearinghouse that has rules for standardizing benefits packages so that consumers can more easily compare policies offered by various private insurance companies and also compare it to the public option.

So, once again, where does it say you must take the public option? That was your original claim. Or were you mistaken?

Once health coverage is mandated and it will be, what other option is there once they make private insurance illegal. The problem here is you're only seeing one paragraph and not seeing the entire proposal. Not all insurance policies are the same and there will be a governing body who decides which coverage is adequate and which is not. You will be required to show proof of coverage every year and if you fail to provide adequate coverage or you do not have coverage, you will be fined and enrolled into the public option program. You have no choice in the matter, it will become law.

Here's an article that lays out what you're asking and it's exactly what I've been saying.

IBD: Individual Private Health Insurance Illegal Under House Bill | NewsBusters.org

Lone -- you need to stop re-posting from right-wing blogsites.

Why?

All you have to do is come up with a counter argument and "you need to stop re-posting from right-wing blogsites" isn't one.

 

[MaggieMae]

This is why you people get into trouble trying to pick only portions to rail about. That section dealt with rules for maintaining current coverage only. What part of that can't you grasp? It isn't talking about new insurance (insurers); it isn't talking about eliminating anyone's option to shop around. It is talking about 'grandfathering' the private insurance benefits you already have with the insurance provider you already have, period.

What part do you not understand, Maggie? Private insurers CANNOT write new policies. After the Grandfathered policy is gone there is NO OTHER OPTION! You must chose the governmental option. You have no choice. The policy will be like this...

You can choose from the following companies: ABC, LMNO&P or XYZ (just a short list) all from the pool.

You're benefits will be X

Your Cost will be Y.

Those are your options and your only options.

They have effectively eliminated competition in the industry and you and I are the ones who will lose. You will have one choice and only one choice. You will not be able to "shop around" for a policy that doesn't fit what the government insists you have nor will you be able to shop around for competitive rates. You will take what the government offers and you will like it.

What part of "private insurers cannot write new policies from Y1 D1" do you not understand? What part of that destroying the industry do you not understand? What part of that eliminating competition do you not understand? What part of that being bad for America do you not understand?

Immie

You are correct - and the repeated assertion by Obama that people will be able to keep their insurance, their doctor, etc, is a lie.

What Obama is attempting is a temporary short term hybrid version of state run health care - which will inevitably lead to single payer - state run health care. Private insurance as we know it will be eliminated.

That is the worst of the worst fearmongering. Why? Because Congress and the myriad committees have been working 24/7 for six months on just this much of health care reform. I cannot imagine how many DECADES it would take for any kind of universal plan to be signed, sealed and delivered. Surely not in my lifetime, nor my children's. And probably never. A pandemic of unknown origin will wipe us all out long before anyone has to worry about whether or not s/he has insurance to cover the treatment for it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

To an extent, that's the plan. If health insurance is reasonably affordable, people will sign up on their own. If not, a hardship exemption is proposed for those who truly can't afford any type of insurance at all. But just as certain people get away with having no car insurance (also mandated), there will continue to be those who refuse to get health insurance.

But what if you don't want it? I'm not currently nor have I ever been covered by health insurance. The govt. going to force to me to have it?

Then you'll have to take your chances at the emergency room that they'll mend your broken body for free after you crash your pickup driving drunk.

I don't drink and I have a family doctor, but if i do need emergency medical attention(again) I'll do as I've always done and pay the bill!! Isn't that what's supposed to be done?

I'll give you a little insight on something. Afriend of mine, a fellow bullrider (back in my bullriding days) and I both got hurt after a show in Houston and we both had to recieve medical treatment in the ER. Now, he had insurance and I did not.. well tomake a long story short his bill was almost double what mine was and I had worse injuries than he. So I automatically assumed that his bill was padded because he had insurance. I'd like to go on with other examples but I have to go feed.


later

 

[Zoom-boing]

What part do you not understand, Maggie? Private insurers CANNOT write new policies. After the Grandfathered policy is gone there is NO OTHER OPTION! You must chose the governmental option. You have no choice. The policy will be like this...

You can choose from the following companies: ABC, LMNO&P or XYZ (just a short list) all from the pool.

You're benefits will be X

Your Cost will be Y.

Those are your options and your only options.

They have effectively eliminated competition in the industry and you and I are the ones who will lose. You will have one choice and only one choice. You will not be able to "shop around" for a policy that doesn't fit what the government insists you have nor will you be able to shop around for competitive rates. You will take what the government offers and you will like it.

What part of "private insurers cannot write new policies from Y1 D1" do you not understand? What part of that destroying the industry do you not understand? What part of that eliminating competition do you not understand? What part of that being bad for America do you not understand?

Immie

You are correct - and the repeated assertion by Obama that people will be able to keep their insurance, their doctor, etc, is a lie.

What Obama is attempting is a temporary short term hybrid version of state run health care - which will inevitably lead to single payer - state run health care. Private insurance as we know it will be eliminated.

That is the worst of the worst fearmongering. Why? Because Congress and the myriad committees have been working 24/7 for six months on just this much of health care reform. I cannot imagine how many DECADES it would take for any kind of universal plan to be signed, sealed and delivered. Surely not in my lifetime, nor my children's. And probably never. A pandemic of unknown origin will wipe us all out long before anyone has to worry about whether or not s/he has insurance to cover the treatment for it.

15-20 years sounds about right.

Don't know what part about Obama wanting single-payer and that's where all this is leading to that people refuse to see. He said it himself; he's a proponent of single-payer and he wants employer coverage to be no more.

Breitbart.tv » Uncovered Video: Obama Explains How His Health Care Plan Will ‘Eliminate’ Private Insurance

 

[Immanuel]

This is why you people get into trouble trying to pick only portions to rail about. That section dealt with rules for maintaining current coverage only. What part of that can't you grasp? It isn't talking about new insurance (insurers); it isn't talking about eliminating anyone's option to shop around. It is talking about 'grandfathering' the private insurance benefits you already have with the insurance provider you already have, period.

What part do you not understand, Maggie? Private insurers CANNOT write new policies. After the Grandfathered policy is gone there is NO OTHER OPTION! You must chose the governmental option. You have no choice. The policy will be like this...

You can choose from the following companies: ABC, LMNO&P or XYZ (just a short list) all from the pool.

You're benefits will be X

Your Cost will be Y.

Those are your options and your only options.

They have effectively eliminated competition in the industry and you and I are the ones who will lose. You will have one choice and only one choice. You will not be able to "shop around" for a policy that doesn't fit what the government insists you have nor will you be able to shop around for competitive rates. You will take what the government offers and you will like it.

What part of "private insurers cannot write new policies from Y1 D1" do you not understand? What part of that destroying the industry do you not understand? What part of that eliminating competition do you not understand? What part of that being bad for America do you not understand?

Immie

That misconception originally appeared in Investment Business Daily, and picked up by hundreds of bloggers. HOWEVER... even The conservative Heritage Foundation has admitted that the interpretation was in error. See if you can understand the scenario as written here:

PolitiFact | Private health insurance not banned on page 16 of the House bill

Maggie,

I never said they were banned!

You do not need to ban something in order to eliminate it. That is the whole point. They didn't ban it... rather they drove a stake through its heart.

As I said, there will be individual policies available. See post #66 however, those policies will be the tools of the government. There will be NO competition. The companies will not have the ability to negotiate costs or revenue. They will be governed by the health exchange plan. Their revenues will be governed by uncle sam. They will be told how much to charge and how much to pay out and they will die a very quick death.

This will kill private insurance which is the goal of President Obama.

Jennifer Tolbert, the foundation's principal policy analyst, told us that Page 16 doesn't outlaw private insurance. "There will be individual policies available, but people will buy those policies through the national health insurance exchange," she said.

There will be individual policies available. All government run, mandated and governed... i.e. nothing different than the public policy.

Oh and did you read your link completely? Did you really read what The Heritage Foundation said?

The conservative Heritage Foundation also said the editorial misread the legislation, writing on its Foundry blog, "So IDB is wrong: individual health insurance will not be outlawed." Heritage believes that the new regulations will be so onerous as to drive private insurance out of business "which is effectively the same thing." But that is a substantially different argument than what the editorial said.

That is exactly what I have been saying and I didn't even have to read the Heritage Foundations blog to figure that out.

In response to Waxman's letter, Investor's Business Daily says it's sticking to its guns. In a follow-up editorial, it said that private insurance offered on the exchange will be too regulated to be considered true private insurance, hence its original editorial is correct that the bill bans private insurance. This seems like a creative way of covering up a factual error, though. Many private companies are highly regulated but are still considered to be private.

IDB is wrong. It doesn't ban private insurance, it kills it.

Immie

 

[MaggieMae]

Once health coverage is mandated and it will be, what other option is there once they make private insurance illegal. The problem here is you're only seeing one paragraph and not seeing the entire proposal. Not all insurance policies are the same and there will be a governing body who decides which coverage is adequate and which is not. You will be required to show proof of coverage every year and if you fail to provide adequate coverage or you do not have coverage, you will be fined and enrolled into the public option program. You have no choice in the matter, it will become law.

Here's an article that lays out what you're asking and it's exactly what I've been saying.

IBD: Individual Private Health Insurance Illegal Under House Bill | NewsBusters.org

Lone -- you need to stop re-posting from right-wing blogsites.

Why?

All you have to do is come up with a counter argument and "you need to stop re-posting from right-wing blogsites" isn't one.

Because .org websites will generally offer biased opinions (both right and left). In this case, I've already given you the sourced information which ironically has also been verified by conservative Heritage Foundation. My point is that blogs, like opinion pages, are embellished to fit an agenda, and do not necessarily hold all the facts needed to do your own analysis. If within a blog site, it gives you a hyperlink to other referenced sources, go to those also. Too many people believe everything they read on the Internet as being gospel. The Net is only as smart as the people doing the input.