Where are the Fiscal Conservatives? GOP Tax Bill Adds $1.7T to Debt

[NightFox]

No one has answered the question. Where are the fiscal conservatives who whined all these years about the debt?
.

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

 

[gipper]

No one has answered the question. Where are the fiscal conservatives who whined all these years about the debt?
.

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

 

[danielpalos]

If the rich are going to get richer, there is no reason to reduce social benefits for the poor.

 

[AntonToo]

No one has answered the question. Where are the fiscal conservatives who whined all these years about the debt?
.

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

 

[NightFox]

If the rich are going to get richer, there is no reason to reduce social benefits for the poor.

Unfortunately the poor (those at or below the poverty line) receive only a small portion of the total subsidies spent by government (last time I looked it was around 13%), the vast majority of subsidies go to people and organizations that are NOT poor (and that doesn't account for the distribution effects of inflation, which is a transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top). The subsidies the poor do receive are geared toward subsistence and not toward increasing the market value of their skills pursuant to making them self-sufficient, in other words we're subsidizing them to remain poor.

If we stopped subsidizing those that aren't poor and divert even half of what is saved to people that are actually poor we could effectively eliminate poverty (primarily through educating them how to increase the market value of their skills), unfortunately all the Washington trough feeders aren't about to let that happen, they like their gub'mint goodies too much to let them go without a fight.

.. and the rich are ALWAYS going to get richer, the only question is does the gap between rich & poor grow or remain constant? Under our current system of patronage, fiat currency & pay for play the answer so far has been a resounding NO.

 

[NightFox]

No one has answered the question. Where are the fiscal conservatives who whined all these years about the debt?
.

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

As the Doctor said, "we're halfway there" ...

 

[AntonToo]

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

How is sending individual insurance market into a death spiral make for "good news"?

You are basically saying to people - don't worry about getting insurance, save yourself money and wait until you get really sick to get insured.

This system CAN'T ever work.

 

[danielpalos]

Sign up for courses in selling short.

 

[gipper]

No one has answered the question. Where are the fiscal conservatives who whined all these years about the debt?
.

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

W

No one has answered the question. Where are the fiscal conservatives who whined all these years about the debt?
.

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

To the statist and leftist (redundant), that is just fucking mad...right? Of course, the point is about the federal income tax, not all taxes...strawman.

Did you know....that prior to 1913, there was NO INCOME TAX IN THE USA? No shit man!

 

[AntonToo]

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

W

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

To the statist and leftist (redundant), that is just fucking mad...right? Of course, the point is about the federal income tax, not all taxes...strawman.

Did you know....that prior to 1913, there was NO INCOME TAX IN THE USA? No shit man!

To the FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE this is just fucking mad.

Federal Income taxes pay for the SPENDING. There has been only INCREASES in spending and abandoning actually PAYING FOR the bills, including trillion dollar wars, we run up is FUCKING MAD.


It's amazing how those that call themselves the side of fiscal responsibility could not give two shits about basic principles of solvency.

 

[NightFox]

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

How is sending individual market in death spiral make for "good news"?

Obamacare was designed to collapse the private insurance market over the long haul, might as well pull the pin on that grenade now, at the very least it'll likely end up destroying the Obamacare farce sooner rather than later.

Look on the bright side, the left wing gub'mint worshipers will probably finally realize their dream of single payer once the dust clears, of course I'm hoping it goes in the other direction but I HIGHLY doubt it will given the nature of that evil organism that lives in Washington.

 

[gipper]

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

W

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

To the statist and leftist (redundant), that is just fucking mad...right? Of course, the point is about the federal income tax, not all taxes...strawman.

Did you know....that prior to 1913, there was NO INCOME TAX IN THE USA? No shit man!

To the FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE this is just fucking mad.

Federal Income taxes pay for the SPENDING. There has been only INCREASES in spending and abandoning actually PAYING FOR the bills, including trillion dollar wars, we run up is FUCKING MAD.

One of the best ways to terminate something evil, is starve it.

 

[AntonToo]

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

How is sending individual market in death spiral make for "good news"?

Obamacare was designed to collapse the private insurance market

Obama put his name on a failure that will collapse the individual market? WTF does that do for him and his legacy? RomneyCare was A WORKING SUCCESS when Obamacare was getting modeled after it, if they wanted a failing system why would they do that?

Your conspiracy theory holds no water, but I could see that these sort of back bending rationalizations is where you have to go to justify your support of what adds up to destruction of private insurance market.

And don't kid yourself, if Republicans will go ahead with this the blame will rightfully be ON THEM, not Obama.

 

[AntonToo]

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

W

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

Ron is right....

Yea, lets pay no taxes - what could possibly go wrong?

To the statist and leftist (redundant), that is just fucking mad...right? Of course, the point is about the federal income tax, not all taxes...strawman.

Did you know....that prior to 1913, there was NO INCOME TAX IN THE USA? No shit man!

To the FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE this is just fucking mad.

Federal Income taxes pay for the SPENDING. There has been only INCREASES in spending and abandoning actually PAYING FOR the bills, including trillion dollar wars, we run up is FUCKING MAD.

One of the best ways to terminate something evil, is starve it.

Americans in private market insurance are evil?

Because what will happen is them LOOSING THEIR HEALTHCARE COVERAGE.

 

[g5000]

Obamacare was designed to collapse the private insurance market over the long haul

How quickly you goldfish forget.

Before ObamaCare, insurance rates were skyrocketing even worse than under ObamaCare. The insurance market was well on its way to collapsing.

ObamaCare did not reform health care, but it did slow the death spiral. It was a prop for the insurance companies.

The GOP "solution" is to return to an accelerated death spiral.

The GOP has never offered up a real solution. They have NOTHING.

The Democrats have offered up single payer.

So guess which one the American people will eventually choose.

 

[OKTexas]

Weird isn't it, back when they had a top marginal rate of 90%, the government wasn't taking in any more than when it was 39%. In fact sometime much less.
.

It's not weird, it's called being very far on right side of Laffer Curve. Almost no one was stupid enough to ride in the 90% tax braket and tax avoidance was rampant.

But at 39% and modern record keeping we are well on left side of the curve and reductions here do cause reduction in revenues.

So tell the class, where is the sweet spot?
.

Depends on type of tax, collection system and social factors. So there are a lot of answers.

Consensus for American income taxes is at least 50% (that's where most conservative, not liberal, macro economic opinion is)

Tax Analysts -- What Is the Revenue-Maximizing Tax Rate?

We of course DO NOT NEED maximized collections, we just need enough to pay for the spending.

Weird isn't it, back when they had a top marginal rate of 90%, the government wasn't taking in any more than when it was 39%. In fact sometime much less.
.

It's not weird, it's called being very far on right side of Laffer Curve. Almost no one was stupid enough to ride in the 90% tax braket and tax avoidance was rampant.

But at 39% and modern record keeping we are well on left side of the curve and reductions here do cause reduction in revenues.

So tell the class, where is the sweet spot?
.

Depends on type of tax, collection system and social factors. So there are a lot of answers.

Consensus for American income taxes is at least 50% (that's where most conservative, not liberal, macro economic opinion is)

Tax Analysts -- What Is the Revenue-Maximizing Tax Rate?

We of course DO NOT NEED maximized collections, we just need enough to pay for the spending.

All this theoretical stuff is fun, what concerns me is the inequity in current law. I'll give you a few examples. Like the refundable child tax credit, it's nothing but another welfare program embedded in the tax code, you want a damn welfare program do bury it in the tax code, put it in the damn budget so people can see exactly what we're spending on welfare.

Second people should pay the same taxes on the same incomes. That little thing about equal treatment under the 14th Amendment comes to mind. But that's not the case, they use the tax code for social engineering, rewarding people for the decisions the government endorses and taxing people at a higher rate who chose otherwise. Like people that chose not to have children, or a mortgage or live in lower tax States. People living in TN with no children or mortgage making $100,000 should pay the exact same tax as someone living in NY with 4 kids and a house making the same.

The way it is now, the folks in TN are subsidizing the life style of the people of NY, because even if they have the same house, number of kids and income, the folks in TN are still paying more to the feds because of the SALT deductions. That ain't right, how about we level the playing field? That applies to everyone regardless of tax rate.


.

Let’s get something straight - NY taxpayers subsidize TN people, not the other way around. Because TN gets more spending from feds than they put in ($1.6 for every $1 TN pays in).

Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers?

People in New York STILL PAY MORE TAXES even with SALT deduction so your argument about them getting something extra is nonsense.

Finally, to live comparably to TN in NY your income needs to be at least 30% higher, which means that per-lifestyle you are paying FEDS more taxes even after SALT deductions.

You can deflect 10 ways form Sunday, it doesn't alter the FACT that the same income is treated differently by the current tax law depending on where and how you chose to live. That is NOT equal treatment under the law.


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[Peach]

The responsible thing to do is pay down debt when times are good . Because we know the economy goes in cycles .

True.

 

[OKTexas]

No one has answered the question. Where are the fiscal conservatives who whined all these years about the debt?
.

"They're dead Jim"

....but beyond the "debt accumulation be damned attitude" of the GOP HoR Congress Critters, the Republican pom-pom waivers should be looking at the details of what the HoR is proposing.

1. The Top Bracket is staying @ 39.6% EXCEPT the house bill includes a surcharge on incomes over $1 million, which effectively creates a new top bracket of 45.6% .. that's right GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "job creators"...

2. With the proposed elimination of SALT and Medical Deductions, taxes are going to increase for some in the middle as well... that's right the GOP'ers are proposing to raise taxes on the "middle"

3. Apparently the elimination of the O'Care Individual Mandate would raise revenues except the Republicrats are worried that would lose support in the Senate... that's right, all those "We're going to Repeal O'Care" promises from the GOP'ers.. just bullshit, they won't even repeal the Individual Mandate when it'll help them hit their own tax "reform" deficit target.

Right now the GOP Congress critters are scrambling to find ways to raise additional revenue to hit the deficit target but apparently nobody over in "fiscal conservative, small government" land is looking for ways to solve the BIG fucking problem... SPENDING.

So the GOP "base" is getting a good fucking over by the unprincipled dickweeds they voted for, they're try to do all these things they told you they were against, with Republicans like these who needs Democrats?

"You been had, you been took, you been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok" -- Malcolm X

The majority of middle class won't be itemizing, so doing away with the SALT deductions won't matter to them, those deductions disproportionately advantage the wealthy.


.

Unfortunately that's not really the case in high tax metro areas like NYC, LA, etc.., losing the SALT deduction can result in higher taxes for middle income wage earners.

Not to mention the fact that it's idiotic for the federal government to tax income that the earner had to fork over to State and/or Local Government no matter what the income level of the person, classic case of double taxation.

If the Republicrats would just focus on spending reductions then they wouldn't have to resort to all these shenanigans that run counter to their stated principles to cut taxes and they wouldn't end up just shifting taxes into the future (i.e. accumulating debt). If they'd do that I'd have some respect for them but as it stands now they're functionally no different than the Democrats when it comes to confiscating other peoples money, Borrow&Spend-R, Tax&Spend-D, same shit, different logo.

The good news (that I read this morning) is that the GOP Congress Critters are getting pushed hard to repeal the Obama Don't Care Individual Mandate in the tax bill, so it's apparently still in play.

See post #136.


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[Remodeling Maidiac]

"The GOP’s tax bill would add $1.7 trillion to the national debt over the course of a decade, and increase the country’s debt-to-GDP ratio by 5.9 percentage points, according to the Congressional Budget Office."

GOP tax bill would add $1.7 trillion to debt: CBO

So where are those tea party conservatives that ran on a very strict ‘we will not add to the federal debt/deficit!’

Clearly, that policy does not apply to tax breaks for corporations and the already wealthy.

Lower spending. Problem solved.

 

[g5000]

"The GOP’s tax bill would add $1.7 trillion to the national debt over the course of a decade, and increase the country’s debt-to-GDP ratio by 5.9 percentage points, according to the Congressional Budget Office."

GOP tax bill would add $1.7 trillion to debt: CBO

So where are those tea party conservatives that ran on a very strict ‘we will not add to the federal debt/deficit!’

Clearly, that policy does not apply to tax breaks for corporations and the already wealthy.

Lower spending. Problem solved.

Tax deductions, exemptions, and credits are spending. The biggest part of government spending.

Our tax rates are as high as they are because of them.

Eliminate deductions, exemptions, and credits and you can lower tax rates for EVERYONE.

Problem solved.