When has a union created a job?

[Old Rocks]

...and it's blatantly obvious that unions and union organizers are marxist. If you agree with marxism, I'd like to say more power to you and what have you- but in all honesty- get out of our country.

Here is a FACT about unions that is little known or mentioned-

In a non-union job - a salary might be say, 25 or 26 $ per hour, right?

In a union job, that same position would cost the employer 43-46 $ per hour.

And the company still makes money. So the people working for the non-union company are getting cheated of the fruits of their labor, provided there is not additional compensation in the form of profit sharing.

 

[The Rabbi]

Or for that matter.. when has a group of poor people created jobs?

Or why don't we declare ALL businesses are NONPROFIT!

Which means there will be committees , i.e. central planners in D.C. that will tell all oil, transportation, manufacturers how often they will drill, or pump or when cars can be on the roads, or how many iPads can be built because
Central planning" says there isn't enough lithium available for the batteries because Central planning hasn't signed the Afghanistan agreement from China!

NOT for profits meaning NO Federal income/state/local/sales or property taxes!

Come on all of you are in favor of withdrawing from these evil profit making banks and putting into those kindly nonprofit credit unions right???
AFter all they have "union" in their name!

So who will pay the property taxes after all NONPROFITS are exempt!

Again.. tell me all you OWS supporters.. why not do away with ALL evil for profit companies?

Because that seems to be the logical extension!

I think you miss the point.

The purpose of unions are not to "create" jobs. Unions don't create jobs, and neither do corporations. Consumer demand creates jobs- either in the free market or through public expediture.

The free market might put six flavors of Pepsi on your shelf, but the public sector is the only one that can put a road to the supermarket.

No, you are wrong.
Companies create jobs because managers must allocate available resources. That includes resources dedicated to labor for the enterprise. So they must make decisions on overtime, capital expenditure as a substitute for labor, and workforce expansion.
Unions do nothing of the sort. Unions negotiate terms for their workers, using their monopoly power (the company cannot get labor elsewhere) to negotiate above-market rates of compensation for their members (if they were market rates the workers wouldn't need a union). Thus companies pay extra for their labor, making their products less competitive.

 

[naturegirl]

...and it's blatantly obvious that unions and union organizers are marxist. If you agree with marxism, I'd like to say more power to you and what have you- but in all honesty- get out of our country.

Here is a FACT about unions that is little known or mentioned-

In a non-union job - a salary might be say, 25 or 26 $ per hour, right?

In a union job, that same position would cost the employer 43-46 $ per hour.

And the company still makes money. So the people working for the non-union company are getting cheated of the fruits of their labor, provided there is not additional compensation in the form of profit sharing.

Whoosh!! You missed the point, the employee is not getting paid $43-46 per hour, that's the cost to the employer.

So let me ask you this, if you had to hire a roofer to put on a roof would you rather pay him $26.00 per hour or $46.00 per hour. Remember, this is coming out of your pocket.

 

[Old Rocks]

Go back and read what I said. Then get someone to help you with the big words.

I read every word. If you think Jimmy Carter had any permanent bearing on what we are seeing today you should get your head examined. I might ask you, "If something was so skewed after Carter's four years why didn't Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush straighten it out during the next twelve"

Again, you are looking at is at a partisan NOT as a pragmatist.

Didn't blame Carter, specifically.

What I blamed was our trade policies.

I think BOTH parties are to blame. But deficits are a symptom, not the cause. Trade imbalances are the cause.

Let's discount the Clinton "imaginary surpluses" (He only used surpluses in Social Security to cover deficits in general fund, which is like looting the pension fund to pay for operations. They send people to prison for that in the prior sector.)

The last time we posted a REAL surplus was in 1969. At that time, we had the Vietnam War raging very expensively, the Apollo Program was coming to an expensive climax, the new "Great Society" social programs were in full swing... and we were still posting surpluses. There were enough revenues pouring in from taxes and tariffs to cover these things.

Then something happened. People stopped driving big American cars and started driving little Japanese clown cars, because they got better gas millage. Pretty soon, instead of taking in money from selling stuff to everyone else, we were buying stuff from everyone else and losing money.

Now you guys whine about how Reagan cut taxes, but tax revenues increased on his watch. But spending increased faster, and not just on the military but on social programs and "entitlements".

So whose fault is that?

The Democrats for imposing so many regulations and backing unions even when their demands were impractical. A great example was the Steel INdustry. They wanted to completely rebuild their plants to compete with the Germans and Japanese, who had all new plants after WWII while we were still using plants from the turn of the century. Well, we can't have that, said the unions. We might lose union jobs. And kill some snail darters.

So our steel industry dried up.

The GOP deserves it's share of the blame, too, especially in advocating all these ridiculous trade treaties with places where if workers get killed, they just get new ones.

Joe, I work in the steel industry. Simply not true. The money was there to rebuild the plants, but it was not unions that prevented that. It was using the profits for the enrichment of the men on top, not the stockholders, but the top employees.

Plus, a climate of corperate corruption that put an emphasis on lowball construction costs with kickbacks more important than the quality of work. So then the people on the floor got to try to make the lousy machinery work. And the managers that bought the junk blamed the workers for the constant downtime and rebuilds.

The primary problem with American Industry is American Managers. The ones that only see five years down the road. The people that get multi-millon golden parachutes when they fail and put thousands out of work.

 

[rightwinger]

I read every word. If you think Jimmy Carter had any permanent bearing on what we are seeing today you should get your head examined. I might ask you, "If something was so skewed after Carter's four years why didn't Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush straighten it out during the next twelve"

Again, you are looking at is at a partisan NOT as a pragmatist.

Didn't blame Carter, specifically.

What I blamed was our trade policies.

I think BOTH parties are to blame. But deficits are a symptom, not the cause. Trade imbalances are the cause.

Let's discount the Clinton "imaginary surpluses" (He only used surpluses in Social Security to cover deficits in general fund, which is like looting the pension fund to pay for operations. They send people to prison for that in the prior sector.)

The last time we posted a REAL surplus was in 1969. At that time, we had the Vietnam War raging very expensively, the Apollo Program was coming to an expensive climax, the new "Great Society" social programs were in full swing... and we were still posting surpluses. There were enough revenues pouring in from taxes and tariffs to cover these things.

Then something happened. People stopped driving big American cars and started driving little Japanese clown cars, because they got better gas millage. Pretty soon, instead of taking in money from selling stuff to everyone else, we were buying stuff from everyone else and losing money.

Now you guys whine about how Reagan cut taxes, but tax revenues increased on his watch. But spending increased faster, and not just on the military but on social programs and "entitlements".

So whose fault is that?

The Democrats for imposing so many regulations and backing unions even when their demands were impractical. A great example was the Steel INdustry. They wanted to completely rebuild their plants to compete with the Germans and Japanese, who had all new plants after WWII while we were still using plants from the turn of the century. Well, we can't have that, said the unions. We might lose union jobs. And kill some snail darters.

So our steel industry dried up.

The GOP deserves it's share of the blame, too, especially in advocating all these ridiculous trade treaties with places where if workers get killed, they just get new ones.

Joe, I work in the steel industry. Simply not true. The money was there to rebuild the plants, but it was not unions that prevented that. It was using the profits for the enrichment of the men on top, not the stockholders, but the top employees.

Plus, a climate of corperate corruption that put an emphasis on lowball construction costs with kickbacks more important than the quality of work. So then the people on the floor got to try to make the lousy machinery work. And the managers that bought the junk blamed the workers for the constant downtime and rebuilds.

The primary problem with American Industry is American Managers. The ones that only see five years down the road. The people that get multi-millon golden parachutes when they fail and put thousands out of work.

CEOs don't make their money for putting a company on firm financial footing for the next 20 years. They make it for showing a profit this quarter

 

[Steelplate]

...and it's blatantly obvious that unions and union organizers are marxist. If you agree with marxism, I'd like to say more power to you and what have you- but in all honesty- get out of our country.

Here is a FACT about unions that is little known or mentioned-

In a non-union job - a salary might be say, 25 or 26 $ per hour, right?

In a union job, that same position would cost the employer 43-46 $ per hour.

And the company still makes money. So the people working for the non-union company are getting cheated of the fruits of their labor, provided there is not additional compensation in the form of profit sharing.

Whoosh!! You missed the point, the employee is not getting paid $43-46 per hour, that's the cost to the employer.

So let me ask you this, if you had to hire a roofer to put on a roof would you rather pay him $26.00 per hour or $46.00 per hour. Remember, this is coming out of your pocket.

Well that depends... If I made Millions of dollars putting roofs on people's houses, I'd want the best and most professional workers I could find. Quality ensures repeat business and word of mouth. A happy employee is a good employee.

 

[The Rabbi]

And the company still makes money. So the people working for the non-union company are getting cheated of the fruits of their labor, provided there is not additional compensation in the form of profit sharing.

Whoosh!! You missed the point, the employee is not getting paid $43-46 per hour, that's the cost to the employer.

So let me ask you this, if you had to hire a roofer to put on a roof would you rather pay him $26.00 per hour or $46.00 per hour. Remember, this is coming out of your pocket.

Well that depends... If I made Millions of dollars putting roofs on people's houses, I'd want the best and most professional workers I could find. Quality ensures repeat business and word of mouth. A happy employee is a good employee.

You aer right it depends.
I would gladly pay $46/hr if they spent 3 hours to get the job done vs 26 and they took the whole day. THat is the magic of productivity. Unfortunately American unionized workers have gotten pay incresaes in advance of their productivity increases, making our products uncompetitive.

 

[rightwinger]

Every American owes their jobs to the work of unions. It was unions or the threats of unions that got workers the benefits they see today.

Remove the threat of collective bargaining and we will revert to third world status

 

[Steelplate]

Whoosh!! You missed the point, the employee is not getting paid $43-46 per hour, that's the cost to the employer.

So let me ask you this, if you had to hire a roofer to put on a roof would you rather pay him $26.00 per hour or $46.00 per hour. Remember, this is coming out of your pocket.

Well that depends... If I made Millions of dollars putting roofs on people's houses, I'd want the best and most professional workers I could find. Quality ensures repeat business and word of mouth. A happy employee is a good employee.

You aer right it depends.
I would gladly pay $46/hr if they spent 3 hours to get the job done vs 26 and they took the whole day. THat is the magic of productivity. Unfortunately American unionized workers have gotten pay incresaes in advance of their productivity increases, making our products uncompetitive.

I know... sLimebaugh told you that. So tell me, now that I have your attention... why is it that you are so scared of labor having a voice when Corporations can have all the representation they desire?

 

[Chris]

When have unions spilled 2 million barrels of oil in the Gulf of Mexico?

When have unions created a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme that destroyed the world economy?

When have unions fought against the minimum wage and healthcare for all Americans?

When have unions sought to abolish child labor laws?

When have unions bought influence in Congress that was against the best interests of all Americans?

When?

 

[editec]

Unions once saved CAPITALISM from blowing up from its own excesses. Unions mitigated the social stresses caused by industrialization. They helped insure that the workers got a slice of the AMERICA PIE.

Then perhaps in response to increasing wages (and certainly for geopolitical reasons having to do with the cold war) the US government's trade policies made it not only possible but essantial that many industries would migrate operations to third world nations or die on the vine of international trade competition.

It was FREE TRADE that broke the backs of the unions. Reagan's betrayal of PATCO was merely the final straw in a trend that was well on its way, anyway.

And not coincidently, but as a direct result of FREE TRADE'S union busting propensity, it is slowly breaking the back of our nation, too.

I remember when most people MADE things in this nation. In eastern PA where I lived as a boy they made shoes and clothing and steel and machinery.

Now we mostly (at best) assemble things here.

FREE TRADE (as currently practiced) is either a very stupid policy designed by patriots who don't understand macro-economics, or it was a very smart policy designed by international industrials who frankly don't give a damn about how it effects this nation and its people.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well that depends... If I made Millions of dollars putting roofs on people's houses, I'd want the best and most professional workers I could find. Quality ensures repeat business and word of mouth. A happy employee is a good employee.

You aer right it depends.
I would gladly pay $46/hr if they spent 3 hours to get the job done vs 26 and they took the whole day. THat is the magic of productivity. Unfortunately American unionized workers have gotten pay incresaes in advance of their productivity increases, making our products uncompetitive.

I know... sLimebaugh told you that. So tell me, now that I have your attention... why is it that you are so scared of labor having a voice when Corporations can have all the representation they desire?

Actyually Econ 101 told me that. Try it sometimes.
Why does labor need "a voice" other than the option of taking or not taking a job at offered wages? Corporations have "representation" because it is their money they are spending. Or do you think it's really the money of the proletariat that the capitalists have cheated their way in to, like so many other communist labor organizers?

 

[The Rabbi]

When have unions spilled 2 million barrels of oil in the Gulf of Mexico?

When have unions created a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme that destroyed the world economy?

When have unions fought against the minimum wage and healthcare for all Americans?

When have unions sought to abolish child labor laws?

When have unions bought influence in Congress that was against the best interests of all Americans?

When?

Every time the min wage gets raised and it hurts especially black teenagers. I realize you don't give two shits about black teenagers but some of us want to see them work their way out of poverty and oppression by the government.
When have corporations used violence against people for nothing other than crossing a line?

 

[Steelplate]

You aer right it depends.
I would gladly pay $46/hr if they spent 3 hours to get the job done vs 26 and they took the whole day. THat is the magic of productivity. Unfortunately American unionized workers have gotten pay incresaes in advance of their productivity increases, making our products uncompetitive.

I know... sLimebaugh told you that. So tell me, now that I have your attention... why is it that you are so scared of labor having a voice when Corporations can have all the representation they desire?

Actyually Econ 101 told me that. Try it sometimes.
Why does labor need "a voice" other than the option of taking or not taking a job at offered wages? Corporations have "representation" because it is their money they are spending. Or do you think it's really the money of the proletariat that the capitalists have cheated their way in to, like so many other communist labor organizers?

Read my sigline, buddy. the only reasons corporations HAVE money is their labor force.

 

[The Rabbi]

I know... sLimebaugh told you that. So tell me, now that I have your attention... why is it that you are so scared of labor having a voice when Corporations can have all the representation they desire?

Actyually Econ 101 told me that. Try it sometimes.
Why does labor need "a voice" other than the option of taking or not taking a job at offered wages? Corporations have "representation" because it is their money they are spending. Or do you think it's really the money of the proletariat that the capitalists have cheated their way in to, like so many other communist labor organizers?

Read my sigline, buddy. the only reasons corporations HAVE money is their labor force.

And the only reason union scags have jobs is corporations.
You are a commie. Glad we cleared that up.

 

[grunt11b]

When has a union created a job?

When has a rightist partisan hack ever made a logical argument?

Everytime they cite the constitution to debunk leftists wants and wishes.

 

[Steelplate]

When have unions spilled 2 million barrels of oil in the Gulf of Mexico?

When have unions created a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme that destroyed the world economy?

When have unions fought against the minimum wage and healthcare for all Americans?

When have unions sought to abolish child labor laws?

When have unions bought influence in Congress that was against the best interests of all Americans?

When?

Every time the min wage gets raised and it hurts especially black teenagers. I realize you don't give two shits about black teenagers but some of us want to see them work their way out of poverty and oppression by the government.
When have corporations used violence against people for nothing other than crossing a line?

Oh..they've done it. Perhaps you need to study up on the Robber Baron Days of our country during the Industrial Revolution and beyond. Corporations killed strikers with the help of local militias on numerous occasions. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

 

[rightwinger]

When have unions spilled 2 million barrels of oil in the Gulf of Mexico?

When have unions created a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme that destroyed the world economy?

When have unions fought against the minimum wage and healthcare for all Americans?

When have unions sought to abolish child labor laws?

When have unions bought influence in Congress that was against the best interests of all Americans?

When?

Every time the min wage gets raised and it hurts especially black teenagers. I realize you don't give two shits about black teenagers but some of us want to see them work their way out of poverty and oppression by the government.
When have corporations used violence against people for nothing other than crossing a line?

Such compassion for black teenagers

I am so proud of you

 

[grunt11b]

I've been employed by unions.

Congratulations. I have been employed at places that have unions, but never employed by a union.

 

[grunt11b]

Or for that matter.. when has a group of poor people created jobs?

Poor people start businesses all the time.

Why do you hate poor people so much?

Exactly because they are the job creators!

Yes, because those people who live in boxes on the street create jobs almost daily.