When did the US stop being good at war?

US and our allies won World War 2 in under 5 years on many many fronts, in many many countries. But we can't win a war against North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan, Iraq again, and a terrorist group?

The only logical conclusion is either a) we're outclassed, or b) we're not trying to win.

US seems to be very good at inventing technology to kill people, training people to kill people, but absolutely sucks at winning wars. Or, we're just not interested in winning.

But why would we not be interested in actually winning and going home? Well, look at who provides all the material used in wars. The corporations and defense contractors. Could they have something to do with things? Like maybe the longer a war goes on, the more money they make?

In World War 2 this was called war profiteering and I think we took people for a walk in the woods for it. When did that change? Can we change it back? Are corporations more powerful than the actual military? Scene from "Taps" comes to mind when faced with losing their school, students seized weapons from the armory and told the developers what to go do with themselves in no uncertain terms.

Until it becomes the policy of the USA to resume winning wars and kicking ass the military and American public shoudl simply refuse en masse' to support wars we're not even trying to win any more at the expense of peoples' lives so rich people can be a little richer.
It began when Democrats stopped allowing us to declare wars. This comes from some innate belief that this country, deep down, isn't good. From a belief that our enemies, that just want to murder all of us, are justified.
Had Wilson and Roosevelt NOT been Democrats, your silly partisan logic might just have worked!

One we fought wars to 'contain' rather than 'eliminate' threats to peace, we stopped being effective warriors.

We were out to conquer and control the Axis powers, and we did. No such mandate was placed upon us in Korea, Vietnam or Iraq.
 
War can be good when it's done for the right reasons, and waged to be won and ended as quickly as possible.

What is a right reason?

Invasion, defense of a third party. I'm against pre-emptive attack.

Defense of a third party is pretty broad. Can you narrow that down? That just legitimized any action.

If an ally of our's is invaded.
Well that sure narrows it down to dozens and dozens of nations.
 
War can be good when it's done for the right reasons, and waged to be won and ended as quickly as possible.

What is a right reason?

Invasion, defense of a third party. I'm against pre-emptive attack.


What about protection of interests?

Too easily abused. If US has "interests" in foreign countries which come under attack well, that's life. Too easy to abuse a military response to that by just putting US interests everywhere as a lure just to justify going to war over their getting hit.


So, if that's a rule, then you just let our enemies know that they can attack our interests without any fear.
 
War can be good when it's done for the right reasons, and waged to be won and ended as quickly as possible.

What is a right reason?

Invasion, defense of a third party. I'm against pre-emptive attack.


What about protection of interests?

Too easily abused. If US has "interests" in foreign countries which come under attack well, that's life. Too easy to abuse a military response to that by just putting US interests everywhere as a lure just to justify going to war over their getting hit.


So, if that's a rule, then you just let our enemies know that they can attack our interests without any fear.

Thos einterests are private companies. If a company wants to put a facility abroad it's on them to ensure its' safety. Isn't a national security issue.

Sure as hell isn't me and my friends responsibility to protect it.
 
My thanks to Sonny Clark for a GREAT post! He took the words out of my mouth.

Actually we decided NOT to win wars when Truman (who I admire) stopped Macarthur from nuking the Chinese during the Korean Conflict.
 
We didnt lose either iraq war.

We soundly defeated their military. With ease.

Its the sectarian disguise yourselves as civilians bullshit that seems its confusing you.

Thata not war.

Its law enforcement. We shouldnt be thinking of it as a war. The battlefield is the civilian streets and the enemies are not a sanctioned army.

The op is poorly thought out.
 
"The only logical conclusion is either a) we're outclassed, or b) we're not trying to win."

Both 'conclusions' are nonsense, and fail as false comparison fallacies.

One can't compare World War II with Post War conflicts, such as Vietnam and the ME.

The age of 'conventional' war is long over.
 
"The only logical conclusion is either a) we're outclassed, or b) we're not trying to win."

Both 'conclusions' are nonsense, and fail as false comparison fallacies.

One can't compare World War II with Post War conflicts, such as Vietnam and the ME.

The age of 'conventional' war is long over.

That's BS. The US military is fully trained and equipped to fight an "unconventional" war.

The reason we don't win is due to politicians sticking their noses in and over-ruling the military leaders who could win. Politically motivated Rules of Engagement are exactly what has kept us from winning. That and forcing us to pull out before the goal is fully achieved,
 
War can be good when it's done for the right reasons, and waged to be won and ended as quickly as possible.

What is a right reason?

Invasion, defense of a third party. I'm against pre-emptive attack.


What about protection of interests?
What interests would warrant going to war?

National security and geoeconomic interests.
 
"The only logical conclusion is either a) we're outclassed, or b) we're not trying to win."

Both 'conclusions' are nonsense, and fail as false comparison fallacies.

One can't compare World War II with Post War conflicts, such as Vietnam and the ME.

The age of 'conventional' war is long over.
Truth is, to the left, victory is a dirty word.
 
War can be good when it's done for the right reasons, and waged to be won and ended as quickly as possible.

What is a right reason?

Invasion, defense of a third party. I'm against pre-emptive attack.

Defense of a third party is pretty broad. Can you narrow that down? That just legitimized any action.

If an ally of our's is invaded.

The US does not get involved unless the US directly benefits.
 
"The only logical conclusion is either a) we're outclassed, or b) we're not trying to win."

Both 'conclusions' are nonsense, and fail as false comparison fallacies.

One can't compare World War II with Post War conflicts, such as Vietnam and the ME.

The age of 'conventional' war is long over.

That's BS. The US military is fully trained and equipped to fight an "unconventional" war.

The reason we don't win is due to politicians sticking their noses in and over-ruling the military leaders who could win. Politically motivated Rules of Engagement are exactly what has kept us from winning. That and forcing us to pull out before the goal is fully achieved,
Theres no such thing.

Jihadis spring up every day at random places scattered throughout the entire middle east

They are not acting in unison as some entity we can "defeat."

Rules of engagement may hinder us in individual situations, case by case.....but we're not in a fucking war.

We're dealing with a ideaology, not an army. We're dealing with an anomoly and the real way to handle it is to let each local entity do it on their own or dont, and simply defend our borders and assist our allies where needed.
 
War can be good when it's done for the right reasons, and waged to be won and ended as quickly as possible.

What is a right reason?

Invasion, defense of a third party. I'm against pre-emptive attack.


What about protection of interests?

Too easily abused. If US has "interests" in foreign countries which come under attack well, that's life. Too easy to abuse a military response to that by just putting US interests everywhere as a lure just to justify going to war over their getting hit.
Saddam attacking Kuwait was a prime example
 
War can be good when it's done for the right reasons, and waged to be won and ended as quickly as possible.

What is a right reason?

Invasion, defense of a third party. I'm against pre-emptive attack.


What about protection of interests?

Too easily abused. If US has "interests" in foreign countries which come under attack well, that's life. Too easy to abuse a military response to that by just putting US interests everywhere as a lure just to justify going to war over their getting hit.
Saddam attacking Kuwait was a prime example

Because Kuwait was drilling sideways with equipment acquired from the Santa Fe Drilling Company.
 
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Truman was the last president to have understood that wars are to be won. Sadly, though, in his later years, he lost his grip and allowed Korea to become what it did. Worse, Eisenhower who similarly once knew about successfully concluding wars, also came to office late in his game. Or maybe Truman left something infectious in The (now former) White House.
 
We don't win, when it is not a Just War, in the first place.

when it is Just War, then we put all of our power and might in to winning, quickly and deadly.

We tip toe around in wars that never met Just War Theory criteria....because we know we should not be involved in the first place, and are just playing police....thus the tip toeing....don't want to hurt innocents...

In Just War, you KNOW your end, before you begin it and you must know, that the people in the Nation you are warring with, will be better off than they were previous to the war in near every manner....otherwise it is NOT just war....not a war worth fighting.
 
What is a right reason?

Invasion, defense of a third party. I'm against pre-emptive attack.


What about protection of interests?

Too easily abused. If US has "interests" in foreign countries which come under attack well, that's life. Too easy to abuse a military response to that by just putting US interests everywhere as a lure just to justify going to war over their getting hit.
Saddam attacking Kuwait was a prime example

Because Kuwait was drilling sideways.

Oh, so that's different.

It's cool. Invade your neighbors, kill their people, steal all of their shit, just because you think they were drilling sideways.
 

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