CDZ What's the chance your tax preparer is clueless?

[oldfart]

Actually, pretty good. As of January 2, the Return Preparer Office of the IRS had renewed Preparer Tax Identification Numbers (PTIN's) for approximately 741,124 individuals (there is a bit of overlap in that a few people have multiple credentials), out of a total of 1,290,788 that have been issued since 9/2802010. Of actual tax practitioners (those who can represent you before the IRS) there are 23,225 attorneys, 180,086 CPA's, and 48,840 enrolled agents. Most attorneys and CPA's don't do tax work, so the fact that they bothered to get a PTIN means they probably make an effort to keep up. Since the enrolled agents are required to meet a CPE requirement in taxation, they probably are up to date. Ignoring the 292 Enrolled Actuaries and 623 Enrolled Retirement Plan Agents, this leaves 488, 058 additional preparers out there.

About three years ago the IRS tried to impose minimum standards including CPE on those preparers but lost in court. So the IRS has a voluntary program where preparers can basically meet those standards and receive a designation under the Annual Filing Season Program. That takes care of another 25, 365 preparers. Those who have met ANY of these criteria will be listed on the IRS website list of tax preparers: https://irs.treasury.gov/rpo/rpo.jsf

So what is left over? 462,693 people with PTIN's and no evidence that they have any competence at all. This is 62.4% of the total. Add to that the folks who don't even bother to get a PTIN. Now a lot of these folks probably can do an adequate job. I just wonder why so many of them don't bother to even get the AFSP designation.

Happy taxes and just remember that the IRS is really only after your money.

 

[JoeMoma]

Since I prepare my own taxes.... pretty high!

Actually, since I lead a simple life, my taxes are not that complicated.

 

[longknife]

99.9% of them can do no more than what the computer software tells them.

 

[oldfart]

Since I prepare my own taxes.... pretty high!

Actually, since I lead a simple life, my taxes are not that complicated.

There's no good reason a person of average ability can't do the average return themselves. Preparers get a lot of clients who just don't have the time or temperament to do it. Same reason why I don't mow my own grass.

 

[oldfart]

99.9% of them can do no more than what the computer software tells them.

Most taxpayer representatives (as opposed to tax preparers) make the majority of their income in representation. Tax software doesn't help much there.

 

[FA_Q2]

99.9% of them can do no more than what the computer software tells them.

Likely even less.


I do my taxes myself. I used to have someone prepare them for me until I discovered that contrary to what I thought, they screwed my taxes up every single time I had someone else do them. Sadly, the more complex they were, the worse they did compared to myself.

Considering that these individuals are paid and that is what they do professionally, the performance I have seen from them is abysmal. The software is actually very competent and very effective. I use tax slayer's software now and they have never deterred me wrong.

 

[oldfart]

99.9% of them can do no more than what the computer software tells them.

Likely even less.


I do my taxes myself. I used to have someone prepare them for me until I discovered that contrary to what I thought, they screwed my taxes up every single time I had someone else do them. Sadly, the more complex they were, the worse they did compared to myself.

Unfortunately a lot of preparers try to do anything that comes in the door. If it's outside my area of competence, I refer client's to other professionals. Sounds like you were one of those clients who had a quirky situation that most preparers were not up on but you were.

Considering that these individuals are paid and that is what they do professionally, the performance I have seen from them is abysmal. The software is actually very competent and very effective. I use tax slayer's software now and they have never deterred me wrong.

My perception is a little slanted because a large number of my engagements are to clean up the errors of preparers. Overall I think most preparers do a pretty good job. As I said, a lot get in over their head and have limited research and support resources. That's why I tried to gently push in the OP to encourage clients to choose preparers with some kind of credentials. The more complex your tax affairs, the more competent a professional you need.

I got my Treasury card before there were any computer programs except for very expensive and buggy service bureaus you mailed your input sheets to. The early programs of the 80's and 90's had lots of flaws and didn't do all returns. Each year the programs are different and are updated as flaws are detected and corrections issued. You are extremely lucky if you have never had a software error.

 

[FA_Q2]

99.9% of them can do no more than what the computer software tells them.

Likely even less.


I do my taxes myself. I used to have someone prepare them for me until I discovered that contrary to what I thought, they screwed my taxes up every single time I had someone else do them. Sadly, the more complex they were, the worse they did compared to myself.

Unfortunately a lot of preparers try to do anything that comes in the door. If it's outside my area of competence, I refer client's to other professionals. Sounds like you were one of those clients who had a quirky situation that most preparers were not up on but you were.

Even when my taxes were simple (and I mean really simple) they missed things that would have improved my tax situation. When they did get 'quirky' because I was operating a business, it became a LOT worse.

Considering that these individuals are paid and that is what they do professionally, the performance I have seen from them is abysmal. The software is actually very competent and very effective. I use tax slayer's software now and they have never deterred me wrong.

My perception is a little slanted because a large number of my engagements are to clean up the errors of preparers. Overall I think most preparers do a pretty good job. As I said, a lot get in over their head and have limited research and support resources. That's why I tried to gently push in the OP to encourage clients to choose preparers with some kind of credentials. The more complex your tax affairs, the more competent a professional you need.

I got my Treasury card before there were any computer programs except for very expensive and buggy service bureaus you mailed your input sheets to. The early programs of the 80's and 90's had lots of flaws and didn't do all returns. Each year the programs are different and are updated as flaws are detected and corrections issued. You are extremely lucky if you have never had a software error.

Lucky? Not really. I have only been using automated software for the last 8 or 9 years and during that time they have been very well ironed out. Honestly, my taxes are not all that complicated, even when considering my business as it was very small, so the programs I have used from a few different companies have all been very good. I would never actually considering doing my own and hire someone with credentials if I had complex tax issues. Most of us thing that doing something like going down to H&R Block should get the best tax return possible for the average joe. In my experience, no one anywhere is ever served by going to one of those institutions.

I may be wrong but it seems to me that the only people that should be seeking out someone to do their taxes for them should be people that have complex enough taxes that they hire someone directly precisely because they looked into their credentials and competence. If you think that simply walking into a place of business because they are the 'professionals' to do your taxes for you then you can just do them yourself with automated tax filing programs.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I have to wonder why taxpayers who don't have complicated situations -- eg, foreign earned active and/or passive income, multistate income and loss, intercompany transactions/ownership structures -- use TurboTax.