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P F Tinmore, et al,
The borders of empires and the outline of sovereign territories in the Middle East have been shifting and changing since the time before the Uruk period in Mesopotamia and the Sumerian hegemony in the fourth millennium (BC). No sovereignty in the world, is known today by the name the land had in time of neolithic settlers; least of all, in the troublesome Syrian territory of Palestine.
Through much of history, Monarchies, Empires and Principalities were govern under the concept of the Divine right of Kings or the Mandate of Heaven; both of which have the foundation in the right to rule claimed to have been granted to rulers by the Supreme Being; which was supported by political and religious doctrine of royal linage and political legitimacy. And this would not begin to change until the 18th Century. At that time, what we refer to as the territory of Palestine (as well as Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq) were just a few of the holdings under the Sovereign Rule of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Sultan was the absolute ruler of the territory (which included what is known today as Palestine). He was the head of the state and head of the government, and his words were the Law. The Sultan "was the political, military, judicial, social, and religious leader. He was responsible only to Allah and God's Law, known as the Seriat (Sharia)." During the Sultan's Rule, there were no natural rights bestowed as universal and inalienable by the Sultan unto the people of Palestine. However, there were legal rights bestowed by the Sultan onto a people of the Empire by a given legal system; the Qanun, was the secular legal system used by Sultan until the fall of the Empire. The Qanun system of law co-existed with religious law or Sharia. Until the 20th Century, the indigenous populations of the universal and inalienable rights bestowed upon them, and lived by the absolute authority of the Sultan with the Sharia and Qanun in support.
(COMMENT)The Palestinians are pushing for their rights and justice. I don't know where Israel can fit itself into that picture.
The ruling authority of the territory past from the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers. As a species, humanity only recently celebrated the 65th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) (December 10, 1948 - December 2013).
Specifically, what "rights and justice" were the Palestinians pushing for in 1948, when the Palestinians declared open "genocide" on the Jewish People in the same context as the Holocaust?
Most Respectfully,
R
the Palestinians declared open "genocide" on the Jewish People in the same context as the Holocaust?
Probably.Maybe Tinny has simply been busy in recent hours.LOL, the dogshit finally comes clean and admits that it wants all jews out of the mideast, at best relegated back to dhimmi status as they endured for the last 1,400 years under muslim rule - the way muslims subjugate all of the non-muslims under their control.
Let's give him a chance to give us a straight-up 'Yes' or 'No' answer to No. 214.
If he refuses to do so, we'll know for sure.
I think he all but admitted that Israel should be destroyed. "Israel doesn't fit into the picture" is the best answer you'll get out of him.
(COMMENT)Indeed, the history of our world is plagued by killing, plunder, and conquest. However, in the last hundred years or so the world has been trying to create a more civilized world.
We are trying to get away from the rule of the gun to the rule of law where the rights of the people are paramount.
The Palestinians have experienced many violations of their rights. They hold the legal and moral high ground.
the Palestinians declared open "genocide" on the Jewish People in the same context as the Holocaust?
That is taken out of context and is misleading.
BENGURION CABLE RECEIVED ON 16 FEBRUARY FROM THE JEWISH AGENCY FOR PALESTINE CONCERNING ARAB ARMED FORCES said:ACCORDING BEST AVAILABLE INFORMATION, DIRECT OBSERVATIONS AND INFERENCE FROM A LARGE NUMBER OF FACTS, ENTIRE INITIATIVE AND DIRECTION OF FORCES OF WAR AGAINST US HAS PASSED INTO THE HANDS OF ARMED FORCES OF NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES WHO ARE CONTINUALLY SENDING NUMEROUS GROUPS ACROSS NORTHERN AND EASTERN FRONTIERS INCLUDING TRANSJORDAN. THESE ARE WELL EQUIPPED AND WELL SUPPLIED FIGHTING CONTINGENTS UNDER COMMAND OF WELL EDUCATED ARAB OFFICERS ASSISTED BY EUROPEANS, MAINLY GERMAN EXPERTS. PRACTICALLY NO ATTEMPTS ARE BEING MADE BY PALESTINE GOVERNMENT OR BRITISH ARMY TO PREVENT THEIR ENTRY IN CONCENTRATION IN IMPORTANT STRATEGIC CENTERS. WE EXPECT SERIOUS ATTACKS ALTHOUGH NATURALLY NO DETAILED INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE ABOUT TARGETS. AND WAYS OF ATTACK. JAFFA HAD TRIED THROUGH BRITISH INTERMEDIARIES TO SECURE PEACE AGREEMENT WITH TEL AVIV. NOW JAFFA IS UNDER ARAB COMMANDER FROM ABROAD WHO STOPPED PEACE TALKS WHEN COMMANDER TOLD BY MAYOR OF JAFFA THAT WITHOUT AGREEMENT JAFFA WILL BE ENTIRELY DESTROYED HE ANSWERED, I DO NOT MIND DESTRUCTION OF JAFFA IF WE SECURE DESTRUCTION OF TEL AVIV. TIME IS MOST DECISIVE FACTOR. URGE IMMEDIATE INTERNATIONAL FORCE OR AT LEAST DESPATCH EQUIPMENT BY UN OR US.
SOURCE: A/AC.21/JA/16 16 February 1948
RoccoR said:The Palestinian that attacked first,..
P F Tinmore, et al,
The borders of empires and the outline of sovereign territories in the Middle East have been shifting and changing since the time before the Uruk period in Mesopotamia and the Sumerian hegemony in the fourth millennium (BC). No sovereignty in the world, is known today by the name the land had in time of neolithic settlers; least of all, in the troublesome Syrian territory of Palestine.
Through much of history, Monarchies, Empires and Principalities were govern under the concept of the Divine right of Kings or the Mandate of Heaven; both of which have the foundation in the right to rule claimed to have been granted to rulers by the Supreme Being; which was supported by political and religious doctrine of royal linage and political legitimacy. And this would not begin to change until the 18th Century. At that time, what we refer to as the territory of Palestine (as well as Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq) were just a few of the holdings under the Sovereign Rule of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Sultan was the absolute ruler of the territory (which included what is known today as Palestine). He was the head of the state and head of the government, and his words were the Law. The Sultan "was the political, military, judicial, social, and religious leader. He was responsible only to Allah and God's Law, known as the Seriat (Sharia)." During the Sultan's Rule, there were no natural rights bestowed as universal and inalienable by the Sultan unto the people of Palestine. However, there were legal rights bestowed by the Sultan onto a people of the Empire by a given legal system; the Qanun, was the secular legal system used by Sultan until the fall of the Empire. The Qanun system of law co-existed with religious law or Sharia. Until the 20th Century, the indigenous populations of the universal and inalienable rights bestowed upon them, and lived by the absolute authority of the Sultan with the Sharia and Qanun in support.
(COMMENT)The Palestinians are pushing for their rights and justice. I don't know where Israel can fit itself into that picture.
The ruling authority of the territory past from the Ottoman Empire to the Allied Powers. As a species, humanity only recently celebrated the 65th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) (December 10, 1948 - December 2013).
Specifically, what "rights and justice" were the Palestinians pushing for in 1948, when the Palestinians declared open "genocide" on the Jewish People in the same context as the Holocaust?
Most Respectfully,
R
Indeed, the history of our world is plagued by killing, plunder, and conquest. However, in the last hundred years or so the world has been trying to create a more civilized world.
We are trying to get away from the rule of the gun to the rule of law where the rights of the people are paramount.
The Palestinians have experienced many violations of their rights. They hold the legal and moral high ground.
the Palestinians declared open "genocide" on the Jewish People in the same context as the Holocaust?
That is taken out of context and is misleading.
RoccoR said:The Palestinian that attacked first,..
Big lie.
The rest of your post is based on false premise.
Probably the reason Arafat didn't sign a peace agreement when he was offered 98 percent of what he wanted. He wanted to save his own skin from his fellow Arabs.
What the Palestinians and Arabs Think of Kerry's New Ideas
by Khaled Abu Toameh December 27, 2013 at 5:00 am
It is hard to see how Abbas would be able to retract his position now that the Arab League has also rejected Kerry's ideas. Kerry will now have to launch a new diplomatic campaign to convince the Arab League to change its position. And for the Arab countries to do that really would take a miracle.
The Palestinian Authority does not like U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry's latest ideas for peace between the Palestinians and Israelis.
The Palestinians especially do not like Kerry's proposal that Israel maintain a military presence in the Jordan Valley if and when a Palestinian state is established next to Israel.
Continue reading at:
Gatestone Institute
Kerry will now have to launch a new diplomatic campaign to convince the Arab League to change its position.
Kerry really needs to make a better offer. The Palestinians are not buying his crap.
RoccoR said:The Palestinian that attacked first,..
Big lie.
The rest of your post is based on false premise.
Just because you don't like seeing the truth and reality staring you in the face. The Palestinians always attack first shown by the 2 years of constant bombardment after the withdrawal in August 2005.
(COMMENT)Big lie.
The rest of your post is based on false premise.
Just because you don't like seeing the truth and reality staring you in the face. The Palestinians always attack first shown by the 2 years of constant bombardment after the withdrawal in August 2005.
The Palestinians went to Europe a hundred years ago and attacked the Zionists?
P F Tinmore, et al,
Yes, we hear this all the time from the perpetual victim.
(COMMENT)Just because you don't like seeing the truth and reality staring you in the face. The Palestinians always attack first shown by the 2 years of constant bombardment after the withdrawal in August 2005.
The Palestinians went to Europe a hundred years ago and attacked the Zionists?
The pretend that the mandate territory was theirs, and that the Allied Powers had not control.
No one from Europe attacked the Palestinians.
Most Respectfully,
R
Of course it's only the first phase.
Everyone over the age of 5 figured that out after the first round or two of failed talks, many years ago.
Nothing has changed.
All lame-ass protestations and declarations to the contrary notwithstanding.
Which is why Israel will eventually be obliged to clear-out Gaza.
Whether it does the same to the West Bank remains to be seen, but, with Jerusalem at-stake...?
Here is what the Palestinians and Arabs think.
US-Brokered Deal 'Just the First Stage' in Israel's Demise
Senior member of Mahmoud Abbas' party reiterates his organization's stance: destroy Israel 'in stages'.
By Ari Soffer
First Publish: 1/6/2014, 6:26 PM
State on '67 borders is first stage - Senior PA official Abbas Zaki - YouTube
As US-brokered talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA) continue, amid pressure for further territorial concessions by Israel, a senior Palestinian Authority official has told Syrian TV that any agreement will simply be the "first stage" in eradicating Israel altogether.
Abbas Zaki posted a clip of the interview - which was promptly translated and circulated by Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) - onto his Facebook page.
In response to concern expressed by the interviewer that any US-imposed deal would be "deficient", insofar as it would "only" require Israel to cede Judea and Samaria, a smiling Zaki urges calm.
"You can relax. We find ourselves united for the first time. Even the most extreme among us, Hamas, or the fighting forces, want a state within the '67 borders [sic]. Afterward, we [will] have something to say, because the inspiring idea cannot be achieved all at once. [Rather] in stages," he responded.
Zaki is a senior member of the central committee of Fatah - the Arab nationalist party which dominates the PA, and is headed by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.
The strategy to eradicate the Jewish state "in stages" via a combination of terrorism and diplomacy, as opposed to in a single military conquest, has been voiced by many PA officials in the past, who note that Israel cannot be destroyed in one fell swoop.
Palestinian Media Watch has exposed a string of such statements by senior officials in the past, casting serious doubt over the viability of the Obama administration's recent attempt to impose a solution to the conflict.
Earlier this year, in a speech attended by Mahmoud Abbas, the PA's Religious Affairs Minister explained that any treaties with Israel should be viewed as another "Treaty of Hudaybiyyah" - a reference to a "temporary" deal signed by Islam's founder Muhammed, which was promptly broken as soon as the Muslim armies were strong enough to achieve victory.
PA agreements modeled after Muhammad's Hudaybiyyah Peace Treaty - YouTube
In another interview in 2011, Zaki was even more explicit:
"While the agreement is on the borders of June 4, the President [Mahmoud Abbas] understands, we understand, and everyone knows that it is impossible to realize the inspiring idea, or the great goal in one stroke," he explained to Al Jazeera.
However, he continued, an agreement which would see the destruction and ethnic-cleansing of Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria would itself prove strategically fatal for the Jewish state in the long-run.
"If Israel withdraws from Jerusalem, if Israel uproots the settlements, 650,000 settlers, if Israel removes the (security) fence - what will be with Israel? Israel will come to an end.
"If I say that I want to remove it from existence, this will be great, great, [but] it is hard. This is not a [stated] policy. You can't say it to the world. You can say it to yourself."
Goal is end of Israel, but "you can't say that to the world" - Fatah official Abbas Zaki - YouTube
PA Official: US-Brokered Deal Just the First Stage - Middle East - News - Israel National News
(OBSERVATION)Yes, we hear this all the time from the perpetual victim.
(COMMENT)The Palestinians went to Europe a hundred years ago and attacked the Zionists?
The pretend that the mandate territory was theirs, and that the Allied Powers had not control.
No one from Europe attacked the Palestinians.
The Zionists went to Palestine to do what besides take over their country?
P F Tinmore, et al,
Again, it was NOT "their country" (not Palestinian's country).
(OBSERVATION)Yes, we hear this all the time from the perpetual victim.
(COMMENT)
The pretend that the mandate territory was theirs, and that the Allied Powers had not control.
No one from Europe attacked the Palestinians.
The Zionists went to Palestine to do what besides take over their country?
The Ottoman Empire (via the its successor Turkey) formally and explicitly renounces all rights of suzerainty or jurisdiction of any kind over Moslems to the Principal Allied Powers; the terms of the mandates, formulated by the Principal Allied Powers, and submitted and subject to the Council of the League of Nations for approval.
The San Remo Convention determined that the indigenous population was not able to stand alone on its own. The Allied Powers also recognized the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine.
The Allied Powers gave the Mandatory "full powers" of legislation, responsible for enacting immigration and nationality law, as well as, administrative authority.
(COMMENT)
Whatever (limited) self-rule and autonomy the indigenous population (Palestinians) thought they might have had, it was relinquished to the Allied Powers by the imperial sovereign power of the day (The Ottoman Empire).
The Zionist Organization (through the Jewish Agency), functioned to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to immigrate and assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home; in a land that was not judged to have the ability to sustain self-government and the ability for self rule.
Jewish Immigration was authorized to meet the San Remo vision. And the xenophobic Arab Palestinians, were not in command of the territory.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore, et al,
Again, it was NOT "their country" (not Palestinian's country).
(OBSERVATION)The Zionists went to Palestine to do what besides take over their country?
The Ottoman Empire (via the its successor Turkey) formally and explicitly renounces all rights of suzerainty or jurisdiction of any kind over Moslems to the Principal Allied Powers; the terms of the mandates, formulated by the Principal Allied Powers, and submitted and subject to the Council of the League of Nations for approval.
The San Remo Convention determined that the indigenous population was not able to stand alone on its own. The Allied Powers also recognized the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine.
The Allied Powers gave the Mandatory "full powers" of legislation, responsible for enacting immigration and nationality law, as well as, administrative authority.
(COMMENT)
Whatever (limited) self-rule and autonomy the indigenous population (Palestinians) thought they might have had, it was relinquished to the Allied Powers by the imperial sovereign power of the day (The Ottoman Empire).
The Zionist Organization (through the Jewish Agency), functioned to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to immigrate and assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home; in a land that was not judged to have the ability to sustain self-government and the ability for self rule.
Jewish Immigration was authorized to meet the San Remo vision. And the xenophobic Arab Palestinians, were not in command of the territory.
Most Respectfully,
R
So, Palestine did not belong to the Palestinians?
It belonged to the fucking criminals out of Europe.
Rocco, you are a hoot.
P F Tinmore, et al,
Again, it was NOT "their country" (not Palestinian's country).
(OBSERVATION)
The Ottoman Empire (via the its successor Turkey) formally and explicitly renounces all rights of suzerainty or jurisdiction of any kind over Moslems to the Principal Allied Powers; the terms of the mandates, formulated by the Principal Allied Powers, and submitted and subject to the Council of the League of Nations for approval.
The San Remo Convention determined that the indigenous population was not able to stand alone on its own. The Allied Powers also recognized the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine.
The Allied Powers gave the Mandatory "full powers" of legislation, responsible for enacting immigration and nationality law, as well as, administrative authority.
(COMMENT)
Whatever (limited) self-rule and autonomy the indigenous population (Palestinians) thought they might have had, it was relinquished to the Allied Powers by the imperial sovereign power of the day (The Ottoman Empire).
The Zionist Organization (through the Jewish Agency), functioned to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to immigrate and assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home; in a land that was not judged to have the ability to sustain self-government and the ability for self rule.
Jewish Immigration was authorized to meet the San Remo vision. And the xenophobic Arab Palestinians, were not in command of the territory.
Most Respectfully,
R
So, Palestine did not belong to the Palestinians?
It belonged to the fucking criminals out of Europe.
Rocco, you are a hoot.
Mr. Tinmore, you are the one who is a hoot. I don't think you realize it but you are giving the readers a good idea of how Arabs think, and it shows with that kind of thinking, there will never be peace. By the way, can you tell us how many Gazans heeded the call of that Egyptian official who told the Gazans they should come back to Egypt where they belong.
