Debate Now What should be the goal of our prison system?

Discussion in 'Debate Now - Structured Discussion Forum' started by Grampa Murked U, Jan 13, 2020 at 10:02 PM.

?

What say you?

  1. Reformation

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  2. Hard time

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. A mix of both

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  4. Other

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. Grampa Murked U
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    Grampa Murked U Diamond Member

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    So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

    For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

    There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

    Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
    The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

    Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

    Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
    When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

    We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



    /blog

    My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
    I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
    No insults
    No partisan bs
    Tell me I'm cool


    Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
     
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  2. bluzman61
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    bluzman61 Gold Member

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    Nice post, Grampa, thanks.
     
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  3. Grampa Murked U
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    Grampa Murked U Diamond Member

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    Any opinion on the subject?
     
  4. bluzman61
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    bluzman61 Gold Member

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    I agree with everything you posted in your opening to your thread. I believe there should be a mix of reformation and hard time, depending of course, on the severity of the crime(s) the person has been incarcerated for.
     
  5. Crepitus
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    Crepitus Gold Member

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    Good post.

    The goal should be to equip these people with the tools they need to function in society.

    Our prison system currently is not equipped to do that.

    Sadly I don't know the whoops answer.

    Education should certainly be a part, not just "readin' writin' and 'rithmatic" but social education and coping skills as well. A trade is a necessity as well. They also could use job placement and a support network.

    Obviously all.of them can't be rehabilitated. Serial killers shouldn't be released for instance.

    My ยข.02.
     
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  6. EvilEyeFleegle
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    EvilEyeFleegle Platinum Member

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    You're cool...LOL! I'm reminded of the scene where Richard Pryor tells Gene Wilder to "Act cool" in Stir Crazy..when Gene asks why.... Richard replies, "so they don't f'k you!"!

    Crime and punishment. Tough subject. First, I think you need to separate the mentally ill from the issue. Our prisons serve as ad hoc warehouses for those that society chooses not to spend money on...as regards mental health services. It is no accident that prison populations went up when the funding for mental health went down..especially in those cases where an inpatient setting was required.

    Then there is the punitive aspect..that society demands. Make a prison too comfortable..too safe--and it doesn't seem like all that much of a disincentive, now does it?

    Is the goal to provide society with its 'pound of flesh'? Or...is the goal to prevent recidivism? Hard time hardens--and deepens the antipathy twixt individual and society. Add the extreme difficulty many ex-convicts deal with--and it would seem to me that the counter-intuitional approach is called for...to give people a sense of self-worth..one must treat them as though they are worth something, right? I would ask the heretical question..is punishment...as a goal---even a real part of the discussion? Broken people thrive on punishment...it reinforces their sense of victim-hood...and allows them to commit continued crimes--and bask in their self-justification.

    Better to fix the person..if possible.
    Often, it is not. Money..and our sense of outrage..stand in the way.

    Then..there is the economic/racial component of the problem. The substance abuse issues. The very real fact that in many areas..prison is an industry..providing both jobs and a sense of superiority to folks who have limited skills of their own. Crime is big business...I have a friend who opened a substance abuse testing company...he is a millionaire from testing that parolee piss. California's largest and most influential union is the Correctional Officers Union..how do you think they would take a proposed massive down-turn in prison population?

    I think...that in most prisons..the tools exist for someone to rise up...and reforge themselves. It's the culture that stands in the way. The prison culture..and our popular culture. I've often heard complaining about providing convicts with college...why should they get to make that step up..at our expense? The thought that it might prevent crime really does not register with those sort...they don't care.....they just want more time....and more punishment--not seeing that that's just a way to kick the can...and the thought that a crime might have been uncommitted..is too elusive for them to internalize.
     
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  7. miketx
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    miketx Diamond Member

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    As a person from the other side of the fence I think they should do hard time for violent crime and property crimes but they should have a chance to get some training in prison for when they get out. The prison I worked at had schools they could attend and jobs they could get inside as well. Also, the leniency the correctional officers are forced to apply to convicts who don't conform is directly rooted in the unwarranted violence done to convicts in the past. I do not condone hurting a convict because they use bad language toward you but wholeheartedly agree with bashing their heads in when they become violent. Killers and child molesters should never be released and most should be killed. The thing that was surprising to me was that after a while there were more convicts I would have chosen to work with than correctional officers. Plus the revolving door should be closed. Stop repeatedly letting violent criminals go free.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 1:54 PM
  8. there4eyeM
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    there4eyeM unlicensed metaphysician

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    We know enough about psychology to make changes. Honesty, courage and vision are lacking.
     
  9. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Diamond Member

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    Lethal injection to all felons.
    A purge, if you will.
     
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  10. waltky
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    waltky Wise ol' monkey Supporting Member

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    Uncle Ferd says...

    ... a nice firm bottom...

    ... for female inmates.
     

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