What Now?

[AmyNation]

The United States of America is one budget bill away from its return to greatness.


The Fiscal Cliff™ will do wonders for concentrating the minds of our legislators. The rich will have their taxes raised, the defense budget will have $500 million trimmed over ten years, entitlement programs will have three or four trillion trimmed over the same period. The stock market will jump for joy, rainbows will sparkle over the Capitol, and everyone will get better cable reception.

We still need to raise the retirement age, though. You can only kick that can down the road for so long.

.

My feelings exactly.

A focused congress that goes in there and gets their hands dirty and we are back on to a path of stability. I really feel that, contrary to the current whining, Americans are ready for tax raises and cuts. Everywhere I turn people are talking about the need to increase taxes and cut spending, and not just on the rich. On themselves and on social programs.

In the city I'm currently living in, people voted for not one, but two tax increases on themselves and it passed by HUGE margins.

What did they vote on to cut?

Police salaries, and school personnel.

Edit to add- although did that 3 years ago to maintain a balanced budget.

 

[jwoodie]

My feelings exactly.

A focused congress that goes in there and gets their hands dirty and we are back on to a path of stability. I really feel that, contrary to the current whining, Americans are ready for tax raises and cuts. Everywhere I turn people are talking about the need to increase taxes and cut spending, and not just on the rich. On themselves and on social programs.

In the city I'm currently living in, people voted for not one, but two tax increases on themselves and it passed by HUGE margins.

My city has passed and repassed a penny sales tax for about 20 years now. But here is the difference. Each time it has been passed, it was for a phase of projects to improve the city. The people got to choose whether or not to increase their taxes and they knew exactly what it was going to be spent on and no spending or building was done until the money had been collected. That is a huge difference from what the Democrats want to do nationally. The debt is so huge at this point, that bringining in additional revenue won't even scratch the surface. It will just be spent along with what we already take in and what we borrow from China. More taxes is NOT the answer. Controlling the spending is honestly the only thing that matters. The whole tax the wealthy thing is just a populist slogan to shift the blame from those doing the spending. In the end, taxing them does nothing to relieve the debt.

I'm pro tax increases on anyone living over the poverty line, and I do think raising taxes will help the debt, as long as its coupled with serious cuts. That's what I want, and I think thats what most Americans want.

Do you think most Obama voters want THEIR taxes raised?

 

[Steelplate]

The United States of America is one budget bill away from its return to greatness.

There will be no budgets for at least 4 years.

The Fiscal Cliff™ will do wonders for concentrating the minds of our legislators. The rich will have their taxes raised, the defense budget will have $500 million trimmed over ten years, entitlement programs will have three or four trillion trimmed over the same period. The stock market will jump for joy, rainbows will sparkle over the Capitol, and everyone will get better cable reception.

We still need to raise the retirement age, though. You can only kick that can down the road for so long.

.

Raise the retirement age for the hoi polloi, not the public masters, of course. If you work for government, 20 years will earn you a lifetime of leisure on the backs of the peasantry. Social Security only at 97, to help the "teachers" who retire at 38. We MUST care for our public masters, no matter the cost.

Oh bullshit...it's 35 years here in PA....I'd like you to back up the teachers retiring at 38 thing.... Just because you like the fact that your private sector masters raped you repeatedly in the ass and they no longer have pensions, help pay for health insurance, or pay a decent wage.....don't blame public sector workers. It's not our fault you bought into the lie of trickle down economics....all those profits, all that money.....trickled right into their pockets....and when their greed outgrew that....they lobbied for and won free trade agreements in slave labor countries.....and boy did it turn the trickle into a spigot....again.....into their pockets....then they had enough money to start a huge marketing campaign that denies their actions, defends their positions, and creates a hatred for anything or anyone who doesn't believe in the huge lie of trickle down.

The people I feel sorry for....besides the private sector workforce....is small business....these aren't the uber-rich that buys policy...these are regular guys who compete against the big boys....but the big boys don't really want competition....they want it all to themselves and expect the best government money can buy to provide that for them.

 

[AmyNation]

My city has passed and repassed a penny sales tax for about 20 years now. But here is the difference. Each time it has been passed, it was for a phase of projects to improve the city. The people got to choose whether or not to increase their taxes and they knew exactly what it was going to be spent on and no spending or building was done until the money had been collected. That is a huge difference from what the Democrats want to do nationally. The debt is so huge at this point, that bringining in additional revenue won't even scratch the surface. It will just be spent along with what we already take in and what we borrow from China. More taxes is NOT the answer. Controlling the spending is honestly the only thing that matters. The whole tax the wealthy thing is just a populist slogan to shift the blame from those doing the spending. In the end, taxing them does nothing to relieve the debt.

I'm pro tax increases on anyone living over the poverty line, and I do think raising taxes will help the debt, as long as its coupled with serious cuts. That's what I want, and I think thats what most Americans want.

Do you think most Obama voters want THEIR taxes raised?

I think most Americans do. I also think there are a good chunk of Americans who don't, and some of them voted for Obama, and some of them voted for Romney.

 

[georgephillip]

Barack Obama has won a second term. In addition, the GOP was obliterated in the Senate. In an election where the Republicans should have picked up seats and even the majority, the GOP actually lost seats.

There will be a lot of finger pointing with the democrats helpfully suggesting a sharp turn to the left for the GOP. This should ring hollow as left of center candidates Scott Brown and Mitt Romney both went down to defeat.I can't predict what the GOP will do, other than to say that whatever it is, it will not be rational.

But what does this mean to most Americans? Simply more of the same. We will continue to have high unemployment, with the numbers to be adjusted back above 8% within weeks, now that the election is over. Continued GDP decline, with paltry 1.2% growth rates falling substantially below population growth. Real wealth for Americans in totality will continue to decline, as it has for the past 4 years.

The American middle class will continue it's rapid decline, as the private sector continues to fall. Public Employees will continue to be a elite class that is further and further removed from the public they rule over. Real income for private sector, middle class Americans will continue to decline sharply, as will home values for those who have not lost homes to foreclosure.

This is the first generation in American history that will see our children with less wealth and less opportunity than we had. As open borders dilute the American workforce further, with unskilled and uneducated masses from the third world, the economic prowess of America will continue it's breakneck decline.

America is entering a very tough time, with the next four years promising to usher in radical changes in the lifestyles that most take for granted.

It's nighttime in America.

What's your prediction for how the richest 1% of Americans will fare between now and 2016, since they have a vast middle class rising in Brazil, India, and China to replace the US middle class?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Oh bullshit...it's 35 years here in PA....I'd like you to back up the teachers retiring at 38 thing....

Nah, most don't start teaching until about 28 or 29, giving them a retirement at 48.

So, for LAUSD, funded by CTRS, the rules are that a teacher can retire after 20 years with 60% of highest salary, with a graduating scale to 80% at 30 years of feeding at the public trough.

Just because you like the fact that your private sector masters raped you repeatedly in the ass and they no longer have pensions, help pay for health insurance, or pay a decent wage.....don't blame public sector workers.

Public masters ride on the backs of the private sector workers. We are there servants. We toil under the yoke of providing luxury for the Apparatchiks.

It's not our fault you bought into the lie of trickle down economics....all those profits, all that money.....trickled right into their pockets....and when their greed outgrew that....

Greedy public masters and their corrupt unions bribe the politicians, who gave away the bank to them. The peasantry has no representation at all. The politicians work for the public masters due to the bribes the corrupt unions give them.

In private business, a union represents workers against management who have goals of keeping wages down. In the public sector, there is no management and no one cares about keeping labor costs in check. The politicians accept millions in bribes from the unions, and so we have custodians pulling down 6 figure salaries and we pay insane pensions.

they lobbied for and won free trade agreements in slave labor countries.....and boy did it turn the trickle into a spigot....again.....into their pockets....then they had enough money to start a huge marketing campaign that denies their actions, defends their positions, and creates a hatred for anything or anyone who doesn't believe in the huge lie of trickle down.

The people I feel sorry for....besides the private sector workforce....is small business....these aren't the uber-rich that buys policy...these are regular guys who compete against the big boys....but the big boys don't really want competition....they want it all to themselves and expect the best government money can buy to provide that for them.

You greedy public masters think you can take whatever you want forever, with no recourse.

 

[kwc57]

Barack Obama has won a second term. In addition, the GOP was obliterated in the Senate. In an election where the Republicans should have picked up seats and even the majority, the GOP actually lost seats.

There will be a lot of finger pointing with the democrats helpfully suggesting a sharp turn to the left for the GOP. This should ring hollow as left of center candidates Scott Brown and Mitt Romney both went down to defeat.I can't predict what the GOP will do, other than to say that whatever it is, it will not be rational.

But what does this mean to most Americans? Simply more of the same. We will continue to have high unemployment, with the numbers to be adjusted back above 8% within weeks, now that the election is over. Continued GDP decline, with paltry 1.2% growth rates falling substantially below population growth. Real wealth for Americans in totality will continue to decline, as it has for the past 4 years.

The American middle class will continue it's rapid decline, as the private sector continues to fall. Public Employees will continue to be a elite class that is further and further removed from the public they rule over. Real income for private sector, middle class Americans will continue to decline sharply, as will home values for those who have not lost homes to foreclosure.

This is the first generation in American history that will see our children with less wealth and less opportunity than we had. As open borders dilute the American workforce further, with unskilled and uneducated masses from the third world, the economic prowess of America will continue it's breakneck decline.

America is entering a very tough time, with the next four years promising to usher in radical changes in the lifestyles that most take for granted.

It's nighttime in America.

What's your prediction for how the richest 1% of Americans will fare between now and 2016, since they have a vast middle class rising in Brazil, India, and China to replace the US middle class?

I'll venture a prediction based on Boehner giving into Obama's demands yesterday. The 1% will have their taxes increased. As a result, you won't see the economy improve, unemployment go down or the deby decrease. You will see entitlement spending increase and government grow. The difference will be that Obama can no longer blame the previous admin and will have to grow a set and man up and accept responsibility for the results of his policies. I'm pretty confident in my prediction, but time will tell.

 

[JakeStarkey]

kwc57, like some Rightists, is delusional. You are a Bizarro Righty, right along to match the Bizarro Lefties.

No, kcw57, it is not. Watch the lame duck session and learn.

Fakey, Obama was making promises in his first admin that when he got reelected, he would have more flexibility.......because then he has nothing to lose. The first 4 years were mild in comparison to what he wants to "fundamentally change" in this 4 years. Perhaps there was a news black out while you were on planet Bizzaro.

 

[Steelplate]

Oh bullshit...it's 35 years here in PA....I'd like you to back up the teachers retiring at 38 thing....

Nah, most don't start teaching until about 28 or 29, giving them a retirement at 48.

So, for LAUSD, funded by CTRS, the rules are that a teacher can retire after 20 years with 60% of highest salary, with a graduating scale to 80% at 30 years of feeding at the public trough.

Just because you like the fact that your private sector masters raped you repeatedly in the ass and they no longer have pensions, help pay for health insurance, or pay a decent wage.....don't blame public sector workers.

Public masters ride on the backs of the private sector workers. We are there servants. We toil under the yoke of providing luxury for the Apparatchiks.

It's not our fault you bought into the lie of trickle down economics....all those profits, all that money.....trickled right into their pockets....and when their greed outgrew that....

Greedy public masters and their corrupt unions bribe the politicians, who gave away the bank to them. The peasantry has no representation at all. The politicians work for the public masters due to the bribes the corrupt unions give them.

In private business, a union represents workers against management who have goals of keeping wages down. In the public sector, there is no management and no one cares about keeping labor costs in check. The politicians accept millions in bribes from the unions, and so we have custodians pulling down 6 figure salaries and we pay insane pensions.

they lobbied for and won free trade agreements in slave labor countries.....and boy did it turn the trickle into a spigot....again.....into their pockets....then they had enough money to start a huge marketing campaign that denies their actions, defends their positions, and creates a hatred for anything or anyone who doesn't believe in the huge lie of trickle down.

The people I feel sorry for....besides the private sector workforce....is small business....these aren't the uber-rich that buys policy...these are regular guys who compete against the big boys....but the big boys don't really want competition....they want it all to themselves and expect the best government money can buy to provide that for them.

You greedy public masters think you can take whatever you want forever, with no recourse.

Oh....wait....I thought I was debating a person here....not a fucking demagogue.....you're dismissed. Go into the round room and sit in the corner(that ought to keep him occupied for a while).

 

[del]

poor baby

 

[Uncensored2008]

What's your prediction for how the richest 1% of Americans will fare between now and 2016,

They will control a much larger share of the total wealth by 2016, as small business is crushed, protecting the entrenched elite.

since they have a vast middle class rising in Brazil, India, and China to replace the US middle class?

Do you actually believe the bullshit you post?

Is $3,600 a year middle class? Because that is about what this "rising" class in China makes. India about half of that, and Brazil, are you fucking kidding?

{Brazil produces racing car and sailing champions, but...

43% of Brazilians - over 60 million people - lack the essentials of a decent life
One in three children drop out of school without completing primary education
90% of sewage is untreated
Drug gangs rule the favelas and the middle class lives behind bolted doors
Half a million North-eastern farmers watch crops wither in yet one more drought
The urban environment, home to four out of five Brazilians, is deteriorating fast
Blacks, over-represented amongst the poor, suffer social discrimination
Indians face severe threats to their economic and cultural survival
The income gap between men and women is the worst in Latin America
Environmental destruction continues in the home of 50% of the world's species ... and that was before the crisis. }

The Brazilian economic crisis

 

[kwc57]

kwc57, like some Rightists, is delusional. You are a Bizarro Righty, right along to match the Bizarro Lefties.

No, kcw57, it is not. Watch the lame duck session and learn.

Fakey, Obama was making promises in his first admin that when he got reelected, he would have more flexibility.......because then he has nothing to lose. The first 4 years were mild in comparison to what he wants to "fundamentally change" in this 4 years. Perhaps there was a news black out while you were on planet Bizzaro.

Actually, I deplore statists from both sides. I lean heavily libertarian. I know it's hard for you fake conservatives to discern different shades of conservatism. Come on out of the closet. Your side won. Be proud.

 

[georgephillip]

Barack Obama has won a second term. In addition, the GOP was obliterated in the Senate. In an election where the Republicans should have picked up seats and even the majority, the GOP actually lost seats.

There will be a lot of finger pointing with the democrats helpfully suggesting a sharp turn to the left for the GOP. This should ring hollow as left of center candidates Scott Brown and Mitt Romney both went down to defeat.I can't predict what the GOP will do, other than to say that whatever it is, it will not be rational.

But what does this mean to most Americans? Simply more of the same. We will continue to have high unemployment, with the numbers to be adjusted back above 8% within weeks, now that the election is over. Continued GDP decline, with paltry 1.2% growth rates falling substantially below population growth. Real wealth for Americans in totality will continue to decline, as it has for the past 4 years.

The American middle class will continue it's rapid decline, as the private sector continues to fall. Public Employees will continue to be a elite class that is further and further removed from the public they rule over. Real income for private sector, middle class Americans will continue to decline sharply, as will home values for those who have not lost homes to foreclosure.

This is the first generation in American history that will see our children with less wealth and less opportunity than we had. As open borders dilute the American workforce further, with unskilled and uneducated masses from the third world, the economic prowess of America will continue it's breakneck decline.

America is entering a very tough time, with the next four years promising to usher in radical changes in the lifestyles that most take for granted.

It's nighttime in America.

What's your prediction for how the richest 1% of Americans will fare between now and 2016, since they have a vast middle class rising in Brazil, India, and China to replace the US middle class?

I'll venture a prediction based on Boehner giving into Obama's demands yesterday. The 1% will have their taxes increased. As a result, you won't see the economy improve, unemployment go down or the deby decrease. You will see entitlement spending increase and government grow. The difference will be that Obama can no longer blame the previous admin and will have to grow a set and man up and accept responsibility for the results of his policies. I'm pretty confident in my prediction, but time will tell.

Do you think Obama will be successful, unlike Bush and Clinton, when he tries to privatize Social Security? As far as "trickle down" prosperity is concerned, any jobs created by the US investor class will more likely be created in Brazil, India, and China; "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican in the voting booth will never change that.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Oh....wait....I thought I was debating a person here....not a fucking demagogue.....you're dismissed. Go into the round room and sit in the corner(that ought to keep him occupied for a while).

You're not "debating" anyone. You're bloviating in defense of your indefensible greed. You are making excuses about why it's good that you feather your nest at the expense of the general public, despite the fact that you never offer a value proposition to anyone.

Look, you're a teacher, right? So you have no clue what a "value proposition" is. When I ask for someone to pay me money, I start by offering them a service that they value enough to hand me cash for. That is a value proposition, I offer value in exchange for value. Public masters take with no offer of value. Yes, teachers add value, but not in direct exchange to value received. Is the third grade teacher REALLY worth $160,000 a year and $3 million in retirement benefits? I sort of doubt it. IF there were a value proposition, could consumers find better quality for a fraction of the cost? Easily. But public masters block any sort of competition.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you really believe their are any public third-grade teachers earning $160,000 a year?
Links?

 

[kwc57]

What's your prediction for how the richest 1% of Americans will fare between now and 2016, since they have a vast middle class rising in Brazil, India, and China to replace the US middle class?

I'll venture a prediction based on Boehner giving into Obama's demands yesterday. The 1% will have their taxes increased. As a result, you won't see the economy improve, unemployment go down or the deby decrease. You will see entitlement spending increase and government grow. The difference will be that Obama can no longer blame the previous admin and will have to grow a set and man up and accept responsibility for the results of his policies. I'm pretty confident in my prediction, but time will tell.

Do you think Obama will be successful, unlike Bush and Clinton, when he tries to privatize Social Security? As far as "trickle down" prosperity is concerned, any jobs created by the US investor class will more likely be created in Brazil, India, and China; "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican in the voting booth will never change that.

Obama privitize Social Security? Bwahahahahahahaha!!! Obama would never do anything that gave people more power. His strategy is ever increasing government dependence. If you don't know that, you shouldn't be posting in the politics forum.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Actually . . . you are Bizarro in whatever political shade you adopt at this time.

I am proud we are driving the Bizarros out of the GOP.

Brother David, a preacher in West Lousiana, had it right when he preached to the young women in his congregation: "Don't let the snake into the burrow, because once he is there, he is mighty hard to drive out. But even then, rebuke him and drive him into the wilderness."

We are rebuking the weirdos and driving them out.

kwc57, like some Rightists, is delusional. You are a Bizarro Righty, right along to match the Bizarro Lefties.

Fakey, Obama was making promises in his first admin that when he got reelected, he would have more flexibility.......because then he has nothing to lose. The first 4 years were mild in comparison to what he wants to "fundamentally change" in this 4 years. Perhaps there was a news black out while you were on planet Bizzaro.

Actually, I deplore statists from both sides. I lean heavily libertarian. I know it's hard for you fake conservatives to discern different shades of conservatism. Come on out of the closet. Your side won. Be proud.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Do you really believe their are any public third-grade teachers earning $160,000 a year?
Links?

Median compensation is: Total Compensation $81,740 100%

Top Compensation is: Total Compensation $154,736 100%

Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

 

[Steelplate]

Oh....wait....I thought I was debating a person here....not a fucking demagogue.....you're dismissed. Go into the round room and sit in the corner(that ought to keep him occupied for a while).

You're not "debating" anyone. You're bloviating in defense of your indefensible greed. You are making excuses about why it's good that you feather your nest at the expense of the general public, despite the fact that you never offer a value proposition to anyone.

Look, you're a teacher, right? So you have no clue what a "value proposition" is. When I ask for someone to pay me money, I start by offering them a service that they value enough to hand me cash for. That is a value proposition, I offer value in exchange for value. Public masters take with no offer of value. Yes, teachers add value, but not in direct exchange to value received. Is the third grade teacher REALLY worth $160,000 a year and $3 million in retirement benefits? I sort of doubt it. IF there were a value proposition, could consumers find better quality for a fraction of the cost? Easily. But public masters block any sort of competition.

Ummm.....no dumbass....I'm not a teacher. I work in an institution for the developmentally disabled....I am a Direct Care staff(an aide) who works with folks with severe developmental disabilities(retarded) and have extreme psychiatric issues. Sometimes, I AM a teacher, sometimes I'm a babysitter, sometimes I'm a waiter and a cook, sometimes I am a job coach, but I am their friend all the time and I advocate for their needs all the time.....I make about $21/hr and yes....after 35 years of getting beat around I will get a retirement.

In my neck of the woods, fucking Principals don't make as much as you claim....superintendents? maybe....but teachers....even tenured ones don't make nearly what you claim.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually . . . you are Bizarro in whatever political shade you adopt at this time.

I am proud we are driving the Bizarros out of the GOP.

Brother David, a preacher in West Lousiana, had it right when he preached to the young women in his congregation: "Don't let the snake into the burrow, because once he is there, he is mighty hard to drive out. But even then, rebuke him and drive him into the wilderness."

We are rebuking the weirdos and driving them out.

So then, you should be leaving for the wilderness, Jakematters.