Got it.Did you mean to send this post to me? If so I don't understand your central point.What you say is true. And if we want to be respected, we have to show respect for my opponent. Theres a couple liberals I can discuss issues with and look forward to it. But you are so right that with many, they are so butt hurt that respect won't do any good.I was watching something on tv and there was a bit on that if one wants to effectively talk to others, usually about politics, do it without the emotions. I thought about that for a minute and that really makes sense. If you can discuss any subject (Especially politics and religion) by inserting facts and discussions of observations, do it without anger and name calling.
Can posters here manage to discuss based on facts without being emotional, playing the victim and just basically losing it?
In other words can posters be the adults in the room?
Yeah sure. I've had numerous discussion with people being honest and open with what they believe, and talking through issue in a decent manor.
What you'll find though is that if you are like me, you'll see that some people want to discuss an issue, while most want to just scream about it.
Most of the people I run into on the left, and some the right wing as well, have no interest in discussing anything. They do not want to talk about it... they just want to scream about stuff.
And at some point you have to just admit that the person you are talking to is a pile of trash.
Let me give you an example.
Tax breaks for the rich. Every single time they do research on the history of tax rates, they find that the higher the tax rate.... the less the rich pay in taxes. In fact Calvin Coolidge said this openly, that his whole point in lowering tax rates, was to get the rich to pay more tax.
And it's statistical fact, that super high tax rates, resulted in the highest income earnings paying a smaller share of the tax burden. And lower tax rates resulted in high income earners paying a higher share of the tax burden.
These are all statistical, historical facts.
Yet if I go into any thread that discuss tax rates, and tax hikes, and tax cuts.... I will have a dozen left-wing people screaming at me that I'm a pawn of the wealthy, and a tool of the elite, and somehow I'm racists, and I'll have idiots on here saying "Why do rich people need another billion dollar!", and other emotion based, scream fest, garbage arguments, not based on fact, reason, logic, or intelligence.
And after you deal with that for a couple of years as I have, you learn to just call those people out for what they are... disgusting trash. You just call them out, and move on.
I know I'm right. I know they are garbage. And calling them out for what they are, is the best possible end to that argument.
Now I promise you, and anyone else here... if you discuss things rationally with me, I'll discuss them rationally with you. I'll calmly explain why I believe what I believe, and we can just talk it out.
Flopper up there for instance is no right winger and he has little or no respect for President Trump and doesn't have a clue why any of us with any integrity can support the President. But he provides reasoned arguments and it is rare that he becomes personally insulting to anybody in a discussion. And he does not deliberately misquote me or mischaracterize the point I am making or presume to put thought, ideas, wants, hopes, words in my head or mouth. I don't agree with him on much when it comes to conservatism and especially the President. But I can fully respect him and appreciate his input.
I would cherish having him as a dinner companion or meeting him in pretty much any other setting because we could easily be friends. And he is a good poster.
"up there for instance is no right winger"????
It was a post to Jackson. I mentioned you however because I thought you might appreciate it so that's why you got a notice about it.
When Obama said you can keep your doctor and insurance and Trump said he would repeal Obamacare those were not lies in my opinion because these statements were not intended to deceive. They were misstatements but not lies. In fact, I don't consider any violation of campaign promises to be lies because these statements are made based on current plans and the assumption that thing go the way the candidate hopes they will go.
Consider what is going on at the border. Trump has claimed more than once that the detention camps are not concentration camps. However, the definition of a concentration camp is a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities. He says things about the detention camps that are compete lies. He disputes what his own people say and what videos reveal and he calls it false news.
The detention camps are just one example. He does this with everything from something so trivial as the number attending his inauguration to claiming we have a nuclear deal with NK when we don't.
This type of behavior is known as creating a false reality. A person misstates know facts, twist the truth, and adds some outright lies to enhance his position. He ask his staff, his party and his supporters to back him up so they backup his lies and misstatements. Conservative media jumps in with evidence to support the president, liberal media goes the other direction. Then the alt-right and far left start making up shit so what was once simple facts become questionable.
What all this does is create an environment in which the various parties can not agree on the facts and if you can't agree on facts, you can not fix the problem.
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