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The South held the #1, #2, and #3 leading export of the United States. Cotton, tobacco and sugar cane. The #4 leading export was held by the North, textiles, but textiled relied on Southern cotton. So we have to assume, barring some sort of trade alliance, the South would have been markedly better off from a revenue standpoint. This would have more than funded industrialization in the South.
Human slavery was on the way out long before the Civil War. We had not had open slave trade markets for more than a generation, and the advent of the cotton gin and other technologies were on the horizon. It would have simply been economically stupid to have continued using slaves past 1900 or so.
The hypothetical question is almost impossible to consider because we have no way of knowing how history would have handled things like western expansion. Would California have been a Southern state? Would we have fought a war between the US and Confederacy anyway at some point over western lands? With the amounts of gold and silver discovered there, it's hard to imagine some hostility wouldn't have happened. What about the other wars fought with enemies to the South, like the Spanish-American war? Would the Confederacy fought that war by themselves? Would they have defeated the Spanish? Would the Confederates have obtained Florida?
Then there is the issue of the Native Americans. Could the US have cleared out the huge areas of the midwest without the help of people like the Texas Rangers? Highly doubtful. So the United States would have quickly been solidified as what we currently know to be the Northeast. Much of the Northwest would have probably been ceded to Native American tribes. Our entire continent would have looked completely different.
Vibrant agriculture trade in the South would have paved the way for technology and industrialization in the 19th century, and the CSA would have likely been the first to put a man on the moon. The South would have retained more timber, oil and coal as well. The Mississippi River would have been a huge lucrative asset for the South, as that would have been the only navigational course for export commerce from midwestern Northern industrial states.
The more you think about this, the more you can see why Lincoln felt it was absolutely vital to keep the nation intact. Smug and condescending Yankees can second guess and speculate all they like, we'll never know what might have been. I'm guessing it wouldn't have been as rosey a scenario as you may think for the US.
Lots of speculation there...it is difficult to know what would have occurred had the South been allowed to peacefully secede.
However the War of Northern Aggression was hardly rosy for most in the North and South. My point is Lincoln's aggression resulted in terrible consequences including 100 years of horrendous racism throughout the South, suffering and poverty for most African Americans, the shredding of the Constitution, the expansion of the state, to say nothing of the huge number of dead and near total destruction of half the nation. I think allowing the South to secede, would have been a much better choice.
I think it is a mistake to say it would have been a "better" choice. It would have changed the course of history in ways we can't even imagine. The horendous racism wasn't only confined to the South for the 100 years after the Civil War. In fact, there were more violent acts against blacks in the Northern states for most of that period. Granted, had slavery been allowed to die a natural slow death due to attrition, there likely wouldn't have been as much fear and subsequent racial turmoil anywhere.
I think a lot of people misinterpret the southern mentality of the time and assume that southern people were slave owners because they were racist people who hated blacks. They were slave owners because that's how you harvested cotton, tobacco and sugar cane. I think it's possible that, as slavery became obsolete, southerners would have assimilated most of the old black slaves and probably would have deported the younger ones. The South very well may have pioneered racial diversification long before the Civil Rights movement simply because of their cultural familiarity with the people. Sure, it's a speculation, but that's all we're doing here, right?
Another forgotten aspect is the fact that most of the South was destroyed, the economy was tanked, the currency rendered null and void. Aside from having 100k more able-bodied young men to forge ahead with a new nation, they would have been in pretty good shape financially as well. This would have been a huge advantage and head start in a peaceful secession. From a purely objective economic standpoint, the South would have been far ahead of the North right off the bat.
The cotton gin was widely available in the early 1800s. It is what created the cotton boom and revigorated the need for slaves. The slave population was increasing not decreasing.Cotton was "white gold" and the South was the worlds leading producer. Untold cotton wealth was flowing into the south and they refused to share that wealth with those who were actually doing the work. Free labor meant more profits.
Cotton was picked by hand until the 1930s. There would have been no incentive to break away from slavery and when they did, they would have created an official second class citizenship for blacks
Yeah, too bad their fighters weren't more like MexicansThe bastard canadians are 2-0 against us and sent Ted Cruz our way.
The south was an economic and social dinosaur clinging to its past. Millions of immigrants were streaming into the north. Factories, railroads, communications all were in the north.
The industrial revolution was upon us and the south still clung to an economic model built on human bondage
The south was an economic and social dinosaur clinging to its past. Millions of immigrants were streaming into the north. Factories, railroads, communications all were in the north.
The industrial revolution was upon us and the south still clung to an economic model built on human bondage
Well, you are just factually incorrect. As I said, the South held the #1, #2 and #3 leading exports. The #4 leading export was fully dependent upon Southern cotton. You want to talk about the industrial revolution? You can't have that without steel, and Birmingham, Alabama had the largest outcrop of natural iron ore in America. What are you going to produce in your industrial factories without steel?
Pittsburgh and cities all around the great lakes had the ore available and the means to produce and ship steel. Didn't even need slaves
The south missed the boat by clinging to its agricultural roots
Shit....History as told by Gone with the WindThe cotton gin was widely available in the early 1800s. It is what created the cotton boom and revigorated the need for slaves. The slave population was increasing not decreasing.Cotton was "white gold" and the South was the worlds leading producer. Untold cotton wealth was flowing into the south and they refused to share that wealth with those who were actually doing the work. Free labor meant more profits.
Cotton was picked by hand until the 1930s. There would have been no incentive to break away from slavery and when they did, they would have created an official second class citizenship for blacks
Right, the cotton gin was available in the early 1800s, but the modern technology to thrash the cotton as we do today, was just on the horizon, which is what I stated. Untold wealth was flowing into the United States from King Cotton. That's why the US never saw fit to outlaw slavery in the preceding 85 years before the Civil War and the US Supreme Court continued to uphold the institution. Stop trying to rewrite history and cast all that blame on the South. It's dishonest.
You don't know how blacks would have been handled, your mind is prejudiced because of your bigotry toward southerners. White people in the South entrusted blacks with their own children, they helped to raise them, feed them, take care of them. Most of what we currently know as Southern cuisine is from Africa. Most Southern culture is rooted in culture brought here by the slaves. After the war, many free slaves became sharecroppers and worked in conjunction with the very plantations who once owned them. The human relationship between the slaves and the people who owned them was much different than you imagine in your polluted little head.
The south was an economic and social dinosaur clinging to its past. Millions of immigrants were streaming into the north. Factories, railroads, communications all were in the north.
The industrial revolution was upon us and the south still clung to an economic model built on human bondage
Well, you are just factually incorrect. As I said, the South held the #1, #2 and #3 leading exports. The #4 leading export was fully dependent upon Southern cotton. You want to talk about the industrial revolution? You can't have that without steel, and Birmingham, Alabama had the largest outcrop of natural iron ore in America. What are you going to produce in your industrial factories without steel?
The fact that you believe this shit in spite of all historical evidence is disturbing.The south was an economic and social dinosaur clinging to its past. Millions of immigrants were streaming into the north. Factories, railroads, communications all were in the north.
The industrial revolution was upon us and the south still clung to an economic model built on human bondage
Well, you are just factually incorrect. As I said, the South held the #1, #2 and #3 leading exports. The #4 leading export was fully dependent upon Southern cotton. You want to talk about the industrial revolution? You can't have that without steel, and Birmingham, Alabama had the largest outcrop of natural iron ore in America. What are you going to produce in your industrial factories without steel?
You have hit on the real reason Lincoln waged total war on the South. It was all about the money that the state demanded by paid. He cared not one wit about slavery and hoped to deport African Americans in his second term.
The tariff is why Lincoln went to war...as expected of a disgusting statist.
The fact that you believe this shit in spite of all historical evidence is disturbing.The south was an economic and social dinosaur clinging to its past. Millions of immigrants were streaming into the north. Factories, railroads, communications all were in the north.
The industrial revolution was upon us and the south still clung to an economic model built on human bondage
Well, you are just factually incorrect. As I said, the South held the #1, #2 and #3 leading exports. The #4 leading export was fully dependent upon Southern cotton. You want to talk about the industrial revolution? You can't have that without steel, and Birmingham, Alabama had the largest outcrop of natural iron ore in America. What are you going to produce in your industrial factories without steel?
You have hit on the real reason Lincoln waged total war on the South. It was all about the money that the state demanded by paid. He cared not one wit about slavery and hoped to deport African Americans in his second term.
The tariff is why Lincoln went to war...as expected of a disgusting statist.
The only people who agree with you are neo confederates with romantic notions of how they wished the south was...The fact that you believe this shit in spite of all historical evidence is disturbing.The south was an economic and social dinosaur clinging to its past. Millions of immigrants were streaming into the north. Factories, railroads, communications all were in the north.
The industrial revolution was upon us and the south still clung to an economic model built on human bondage
Well, you are just factually incorrect. As I said, the South held the #1, #2 and #3 leading exports. The #4 leading export was fully dependent upon Southern cotton. You want to talk about the industrial revolution? You can't have that without steel, and Birmingham, Alabama had the largest outcrop of natural iron ore in America. What are you going to produce in your industrial factories without steel?
You have hit on the real reason Lincoln waged total war on the South. It was all about the money that the state demanded by paid. He cared not one wit about slavery and hoped to deport African Americans in his second term.
The tariff is why Lincoln went to war...as expected of a disgusting statist.
Many experts agree with me. Of course, you do not know this.
The only people who agree with you are neo confederates with romantic notions of how they wished the south was...The fact that you believe this shit in spite of all historical evidence is disturbing.The south was an economic and social dinosaur clinging to its past. Millions of immigrants were streaming into the north. Factories, railroads, communications all were in the north.
The industrial revolution was upon us and the south still clung to an economic model built on human bondage
Well, you are just factually incorrect. As I said, the South held the #1, #2 and #3 leading exports. The #4 leading export was fully dependent upon Southern cotton. You want to talk about the industrial revolution? You can't have that without steel, and Birmingham, Alabama had the largest outcrop of natural iron ore in America. What are you going to produce in your industrial factories without steel?
You have hit on the real reason Lincoln waged total war on the South. It was all about the money that the state demanded by paid. He cared not one wit about slavery and hoped to deport African Americans in his second term.
The tariff is why Lincoln went to war...as expected of a disgusting statist.
Many experts agree with me. Of course, you do not know this.
Like I said neo confederates.The only people who agree with you are neo confederates with romantic notions of how they wished the south was...The fact that you believe this shit in spite of all historical evidence is disturbing.Well, you are just factually incorrect. As I said, the South held the #1, #2 and #3 leading exports. The #4 leading export was fully dependent upon Southern cotton. You want to talk about the industrial revolution? You can't have that without steel, and Birmingham, Alabama had the largest outcrop of natural iron ore in America. What are you going to produce in your industrial factories without steel?
You have hit on the real reason Lincoln waged total war on the South. It was all about the money that the state demanded by paid. He cared not one wit about slavery and hoped to deport African Americans in his second term.
The tariff is why Lincoln went to war...as expected of a disgusting statist.
Many experts agree with me. Of course, you do not know this.
Yeah you're right...ugh...not likely. I know you have never heard of these people, but here goes...
Walter Williams
Murray Rothbard
Ralph Raico
Thomas DiLorenzo
Ron Paul
Lew Rockwell
Pat Buchanan
Lord Acton
Walter Block
George Crispin
Karen DeCoster
John Denson
David Dieteman
H.L. Mencken
Gary North
Paul Craig Roberts
-------------need more?
I know the truth is meaningless to Lincoln cultists like you....but I thought I would try....
"Lincoln was a typical example of the humanitarian with the guillotine: a familiar modern 'reform liberal type whose heart bleeds for and yearns to 'uplift' remote mankind, while he lies to and treats abominably actual people whom he knew." ---Murray Rothbard[1]
Like I said neo confederates.The only people who agree with you are neo confederates with romantic notions of how they wished the south was...The fact that you believe this shit in spite of all historical evidence is disturbing.You have hit on the real reason Lincoln waged total war on the South. It was all about the money that the state demanded by paid. He cared not one wit about slavery and hoped to deport African Americans in his second term.
The tariff is why Lincoln went to war...as expected of a disgusting statist.
Many experts agree with me. Of course, you do not know this.
Yeah you're right...ugh...not likely. I know you have never heard of these people, but here goes...
Walter Williams
Murray Rothbard
Ralph Raico
Thomas DiLorenzo
Ron Paul
Lew Rockwell
Pat Buchanan
Lord Acton
Walter Block
George Crispin
Karen DeCoster
John Denson
David Dieteman
H.L. Mencken
Gary North
Paul Craig Roberts
-------------need more?
I know the truth is meaningless to Lincoln cultists like you....but I thought I would try....
"Lincoln was a typical example of the humanitarian with the guillotine: a familiar modern 'reform liberal type whose heart bleeds for and yearns to 'uplift' remote mankind, while he lies to and treats abominably actual people whom he knew." ---Murray Rothbard[1]
That does describe youLike I said neo confederates.The only people who agree with you are neo confederates with romantic notions of how they wished the south was...The fact that you believe this shit in spite of all historical evidence is disturbing.
Many experts agree with me. Of course, you do not know this.
Yeah you're right...ugh...not likely. I know you have never heard of these people, but here goes...
Walter Williams
Murray Rothbard
Ralph Raico
Thomas DiLorenzo
Ron Paul
Lew Rockwell
Pat Buchanan
Lord Acton
Walter Block
George Crispin
Karen DeCoster
John Denson
David Dieteman
H.L. Mencken
Gary North
Paul Craig Roberts
-------------need more?
I know the truth is meaningless to Lincoln cultists like you....but I thought I would try....
"Lincoln was a typical example of the humanitarian with the guillotine: a familiar modern 'reform liberal type whose heart bleeds for and yearns to 'uplift' remote mankind, while he lies to and treats abominably actual people whom he knew." ---Murray Rothbard[1]
Ignorance is bliss.
Shit....History as told by Gone with the Wind
No, southern whites did not trust blacks. They feared they would rise in the middle of the night and murder them in their beds. They feared they would band together and revolt. They feared they would get educated. They feared they would rape white women and worst of all.....they feared that blacks would consider themselves the equal of whites
We did not resolve those fears with the abolition of slavery. The south carried those fears up through the Civil Rights era when they were forced to finally give them up
Shit....History as told by Gone with the Wind
No, southern whites did not trust blacks. They feared they would rise in the middle of the night and murder them in their beds. They feared they would band together and revolt. They feared they would get educated. They feared they would rape white women and worst of all.....they feared that blacks would consider themselves the equal of whites
We did not resolve those fears with the abolition of slavery. The south carried those fears up through the Civil Rights era when they were forced to finally give them up
If anyone needs to see how the mind of a bigot works, look no further than the above posting. This is how bigots think. "The South" is consolidated into a single entity, as if every person living south of the Mason-Dixon had one universal mind, acted one universal way, held one universal belief. Not only does this bigot believe everyone was the same, he goes on to tell us exactly how they all thought and felt. Even more, how their ancestors thought and felt up until today. No need to argue with the bigot, he is right in his mind and you are wrong.
I suspect, if we peeled back this bigots layers of dishonesty, we'd find that his heart is filled with the sort of hateful and shameful things he is attempting to attribute to someone else. It's called "projection" and bigots do it very well. I think they do it because they can't live with the kind of people they are. Some say it's so they can shine the light of truth away from themselves. Whatever the reason, when you see someone exhibit this sort of lumping all people into one universal set of thought and behavior, rest assured, that is a Class A, certified bigot.
Shit....History as told by Gone with the Wind
No, southern whites did not trust blacks. They feared they would rise in the middle of the night and murder them in their beds. They feared they would band together and revolt. They feared they would get educated. They feared they would rape white women and worst of all.....they feared that blacks would consider themselves the equal of whites
We did not resolve those fears with the abolition of slavery. The south carried those fears up through the Civil Rights era when they were forced to finally give them up
If anyone needs to see how the mind of a bigot works, look no further than the above posting. This is how bigots think. "The South" is consolidated into a single entity, as if every person living south of the Mason-Dixon had one universal mind, acted one universal way, held one universal belief. Not only does this bigot believe everyone was the same, he goes on to tell us exactly how they all thought and felt. Even more, how their ancestors thought and felt up until today. No need to argue with the bigot, he is right in his mind and you are wrong.
I suspect, if we peeled back this bigots layers of dishonesty, we'd find that his heart is filled with the sort of hateful and shameful things he is attempting to attribute to someone else. It's called "projection" and bigots do it very well. I think they do it because they can't live with the kind of people they are. Some say it's so they can shine the light of truth away from themselves. Whatever the reason, when you see someone exhibit this sort of lumping all people into one universal set of thought and behavior, rest assured, that is a Class A, certified bigot.
Did EVERY person in the South believe the same? Of course not
But enough to pass JimCrow laws, enact segregation and terrorize "negroes" throughout the south
Shit....History as told by Gone with the Wind
No, southern whites did not trust blacks. They feared they would rise in the middle of the night and murder them in their beds. They feared they would band together and revolt. They feared they would get educated. They feared they would rape white women and worst of all.....they feared that blacks would consider themselves the equal of whites
We did not resolve those fears with the abolition of slavery. The south carried those fears up through the Civil Rights era when they were forced to finally give them up
If anyone needs to see how the mind of a bigot works, look no further than the above posting. This is how bigots think. "The South" is consolidated into a single entity, as if every person living south of the Mason-Dixon had one universal mind, acted one universal way, held one universal belief. Not only does this bigot believe everyone was the same, he goes on to tell us exactly how they all thought and felt. Even more, how their ancestors thought and felt up until today. No need to argue with the bigot, he is right in his mind and you are wrong.
I suspect, if we peeled back this bigots layers of dishonesty, we'd find that his heart is filled with the sort of hateful and shameful things he is attempting to attribute to someone else. It's called "projection" and bigots do it very well. I think they do it because they can't live with the kind of people they are. Some say it's so they can shine the light of truth away from themselves. Whatever the reason, when you see someone exhibit this sort of lumping all people into one universal set of thought and behavior, rest assured, that is a Class A, certified bigot.
Did EVERY person in the South believe the same? Of course not
But enough to pass JimCrow laws, enact segregation and terrorize "negroes" throughout the south
Did the South cause the SCOTUS to uphold Jim Crow laws? Did the South cause the race riots in Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago, New York? Was "negro" only a word used in the South?
