What If He Was White?

Annie

Diamond Member
Nov 22, 2003
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I do doubt he would have these problems. I'm not one to call 'racism' easily, but this seems way off base. Lots of links:

http://instapundit.com/archives/027353.php

December 08, 2005

IF A COP BREAKS INTO YOUR HOUSE UNNANOUNCED, and you shoot him thinking he's a burglar, it's self-defense. But Radley Balko reports on a case of a wrong-house no-knock raid that has led to what sounds like a total miscarriage of justice:

As the raid on Smith commenced, some officers - including Jones -- went around to what they thought was a side door to Smith's residence, looking for a larger stash of drugs. The door was actually a door to Maye's home. Maye was home alone with his young daughter, and asleep, when one member of the SWAT team broke down the outside door. Jones, who wasn't armed, charged in, and made his way to Maye's bedroom. Because police believed Maye's side of the duplex was still part of Smith's residence, they never announced themselves. Maye, fearing for his life and the safety of his daughter, fired at Jones, hitting him in the abdomen, just below his bulletproof vest. Jones died a short time later.

Maye had no criminal record, and wasn't the target of the search warrant. Police initially concluded they had found no drugs in Maye's side of the duplex. Then, mysteriously, police later announced they'd found "traces" of marijuana and cocaine. I talked to the attorney who represented Maye at trial. She said that to her knowledge, police had found one smoked marijuana cigarette in Maye's apartment. Regardless, since Maye wasn't the subject of the search, whether or not he had misdemeanor amounts of drugs in his possession isn't really irrelevant. What's relevant is whether or not he reasonably believed his life was in danger. Seems pretty clear to me that that would be a reasonable assumption.

In a way, this is the flipside of the Miami airport shooting. And I regard the shooting of a cop in this situation similarly: It's a tragedy, but the risk is, and should be, borne by the person who's acting unreasonably. Here, it's the cop's. When you break down people's doors and charge in unannounced, you do so at your own risk, cop or not.

Radley has more reporting here, and observes:

Put yourself in Maye's shoes. You have no criminal record. You've done nothing wrong. In the middle of the night, in a bad neighborhood, you awake to find someone attempting to break down your door. The door flies open, and a man in black paramilitary gear comes storming into your bedroom, where your infant daughter also happens to be sleeping.

Not only is that set of circumstances "reasonable ground" to think that someone is about to do you "great personal injury," and that you're in "imminent danger" of said personal injury being accomplished, you'd be crazy not to take quick action to defend yourself.

The SWAT team was in Maye's home illegally. And they failed to exercise due dilligence in obtaining the search warrant, given that they were obviously unaware that the target of the warrant was a duplex with a second residence. These are facts.

If the facts are as he reports, this guy never should have been charged -- and he should have had a lawsuit (though those, unreasonably, are usually losers) against the police for breaking down the wrong door. The cop who was shot was the police chief's son. And there's a racial angle, too.

More here and here.

UPDATE: Reader Steve Alexander emails:

My brother and I (both military officers and strong police supporters) were just discussing "no-knock" raids last week. A citizen has every right to defend himself in his home to unknown intruders. Not too long ago, a family was the victim of home intruders posing as cops. I'd be hard-pressed to believe anyone barging in my home in the middle of the night, especially if I KNEW I wasn't a criminal. "No-knock" raids should be illegal in all 50 states.

Further, why doesn't the Hollywood crowd take up the cause of a truly wronged black man on death row, instead of real criminals like Tookie and Mumia?

Excellent question. Unlike those other cases, this seems like one without a political angle. It's unclear whether that will get it more attention, or less.
posted at 09:51 PM by Glenn Reynolds

And there is more:

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/013360.html
 
I'll leap long here and guess the cops were white and the wrong-house dweller who did the shooting was black.

To focus on the justification of the cop-killer is the small-angle view. OK, very well: The black pot-smoker (cough) was uninvolved with the drug dealing of his neighbor (cough) and heroically defending his child (cough) when he pumped a few rounds into a uniformed white officer and killed him. COUGH.

Alright.

But if he'd been white, the situation never would have arisen to begin with. Whites don't live in neighborhoods where drugs are dealt. They obey the law. The benefit of this for them is that they tend to get shot by cops less.

Blacks don't obey the law. The drawback of this for them is that those who do are much more likely to live next door to a lawbreaker, and the risk of a break-in by cops goes up sharply. That's too bad, but it's bound to happen.

But whites like Glenn Reynolds continue to insist that blacks and whites living in the same society is just peachy, so crap like this will continue. The better approach is to recognize that races behave differently and shouldn't be intruding on each other's territory. White cops should stay away from black neighborhoods, and black criminals should stay away from whites. If Instapundit's got a better idea, tell him to step into my office. Until then, he needs to stop gazing at his navel.
 
William Joyce said:
I'll leap long here and guess the cops were white and the wrong-house dweller who did the shooting was black.

To focus on the justification of the cop-killer is the small-angle view. OK, very well: The black pot-smoker (cough) was uninvolved with the drug dealing of his neighbor (cough) and heroically defending his child (cough) when he pumped a few rounds into a uniformed white officer and killed him. COUGH.

Alright.

But if he'd been white, the situation never would have arisen to begin with. Whites don't live in neighborhoods where drugs are dealt. They obey the law. The benefit of this for them is that they tend to get shot by cops less.

Blacks don't obey the law. The drawback of this for them is that those who do are much more likely to live next door to a lawbreaker, and the risk of a break-in by cops goes up sharply. That's too bad, but it's bound to happen.

But whites like Glenn Reynolds continue to insist that blacks and whites living in the same society is just peachy, so crap like this will continue. The better approach is to recognize that races behave differently and shouldn't be intruding on each other's territory. White cops should stay away from black neighborhoods, and black criminals should stay away from whites. If Instapundit's got a better idea, tell him to step into my office. Until then, he needs to stop gazing at his navel.

I'll take a small step, (no leap required) and say that you're a small-minded excuse for a human-being. Do the world a favor and have yourself sterilized. COUGH.
 
http://silentrunning.tv/?p=402

An Open Letter | December 10th, 2005

Right up front, it’s fair to say that I’m a supporter of Capital Punishment. For some things, I think the appropriate response is to pull someone’s ticket for riding on the planet. There are many areas of debate on the matter, such as what constitutes action heinous enough to gain someone ultimate outcast status, and about the processes used to determine when it should be applied.

But in this case, probably brought to wider attention because it does involve a sentence of death, the death penalty isn’t the issue. The main issue is that Cory Maye ended up in jail at all. There is an expression “there but for the grace of god go I” - and it is really hard to read the particulars of this case without having that thought, or one which expresses the same sentiment, cross your mind.

There is no question that the events of the night of 26 December 2001 in Prentiss Mississippi were absolutely tragic. A police officer who probably thought he was doing his duty to protect his community lost his life. And a man who probably thought he was defending both his 18 month old daughter, as well as his own life, is now being made to “pay” for the tragedy, thus compounding it exponentially.

This case will no doubt be in and out of courtrooms over the next several years, but there is no guarantee that ‘justice’ will ever be served by the process - particularly when the concept of ‘justice’ has apparently already been so thoroughly perverted. Future proceedings will be ancillary squabbles about procedures, technicalities, and points of order, but may never fully re-examine, holistically, if the ‘justice system’ got it right on this one. Despite that by all appearances, it did not.

So, an effort must begin to take the decision away from those, that by all appearances, have utterly botched it so badly to this point. It’s time that some of the governmental checks and balances mechanisms grind into action.

The Honorable Haley Barbour
Governor, State of Mississippi
P.O. Box 139
Jackson, Mississippi 39205
(877) 405-0733

Governor Barbour,

The purpose of this letter is to bring to the attention of your office the matter of Cory Maye. Mr. Maye is currently sitting in a Mississippi State Prison, under sentence of death. The circumstances of how he arrived there are, by all appearances, deeply disturbing.

Certain facts about the case are not in dispute. Prior to the events of December 26, 2001, Mr. Maye had no criminal record. On December 26, 2001, Cory Maye shot a police officer carrying out a search warrant. However, the warrant being served was not for Mr. Maye, nor for his residence. The execution of the warrant involved a ‘no-knock’ entry, late at night. Mr. Maye relinquished his weapon, and ceased resisting when it became obvious that the people that burst into his home were law enforcement officers.

Subsequently, Mr. Maye was charged with capital murder, for killing a police officer in the line of duty. A trial was held in Prentiss Mississippi, a jury convicted Mr. Maye, and sentenced him to death.

Although that description seems pretty cut and dried, there are a number of issues about this case that raise profound concerns about Mr. Maye’s conviction, and most certainly, the imposition of the death penalty. These issues raise the question of why Mr. Maye was even indicted and charged to begin with. These issues create the sense that the entire situation is one of a terrible tragedy (the death of the police officer), grossly compounded by a heinous miscarriage of justice.

The issues I refer to include the following -

* Apparent lack of intent - Mr. Maye apparently did absolutely nothing to place himself in the position of killing a police officer other than to be in his own home, asleep, on the night of the incident. Mr. Maye’s residence was a duplex, collocated with the residence specified in a search warrant being executed. The police entered Mr. Maye’s residence due to a mistake on their part - an act that they were not legally authorized to do, nor otherwise correct in doing.
* Intensely stressful and confusing situation - the police were executing a ‘no knock’ warrant, a procedure that involves a quick and violent entry into a given location. It is entirely reasonable to believe that a man, awakened from a dead sleep, in the middle of the night, having his door broken down, could believe that his life was in danger. It is further reasonable to believe a man in such circumstance would react within his first few seconds of consciousness reflexively to defend himself and his family. Further, it is difficult to consider such circumstance without having thoughts similar to ‘there but by the grace of god go I’
* Apparently overzealous and misguided prosecution - Charges were brought and the case was prosecuted by Jefferson Davis County District Attorney Buddy McDaniel. Statements made by Mr. McDaniel to the media appear to indicate his actions may have been more motivated by some sort of desire for retribution, along the lines that a police officer is dead, someone has to pay, rather than a careful weighing and objective review of relevant fact and circumstance

“Those of us who work around law enforcement officers and their families see the danger that they face every day and the loss those families and the communities feel when they’re taken out and when they’re murdered and their lives are brought to a close in the performance of duty”

“Every time they get in the car they don’t know whether they’re going to come back alive or not, don’t know whether they’ll be alive at the end of their shift or not. You can’t pay them enough, you can’t say enough about them. Having been with, having worked closely with them for thirty years, its not something that I can deal with lightly”

Now while these are steadfast and probably heartfelt sentiments, and it is true that police work can be very dangerous, they have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the question of wether this tragedy resulted from the mistakes the police made executing a warrant, or from actions with criminal intent by Mr. Maye.
* Did the jury vote based on their like/dislike for his attorney? - Post conviction discussions with the jurors that sat on Mr. Maye’s trial apparently included the following

She learned from them that the consensus among jurors was that Maye was convicted for two reasons. The first is that though they initially liked her, Maye’s lawyer, the jury soured on her when, in her closing arguments, she intimated that if the jury showed no mercy for Maye, God might neglect to bestow mercy on them when they meet him in heaven. They said the second reason May was convicted was that the jury felt he’d been spoiled by his mother and grandmother, and wasn’t very respectful of elders and authority figures.

If either of these sentiments are even remotely close to the truth, is it justice that a man is sitting on death row because his mother and grandmother spoiled him?
* Extraneous ‘red flags’ - three factors not directly related to the events of the night of December 26th could reasonably be taken to have contributed to the outcome in this case so far. First, that a lot of the media reporting, the basis by which potential jurors would gain a sense of the event, admittedly or not, consistently omitted and/or misrepresented the circumstances of the incident, essentially parsing it to ‘cop shot during drug bust’, and he said/she said reportage of statements by the police and Mr. Maye. Secondly, the officer slain was the son of a local police chief - quite probably elevating the emotionalism amongst those involved with investigating the incident, if not aggravating a sense that ‘payback’ was in order. And lastly, Mr. Maye, a black man, was apparently placed, wearing a prison jumpsuit, in front of an all white jury, in the midst of all these other factors.

Aside from simply bringing the disturbing aspects of the Corey Maye case to your attention, Governor Barbour, I’d like to make the following recommendation, and make the request that you, and your office, act upon it with all due diligence. I would recommend that as Governor, you direct that a fresh, thorough, and as completely unbiased an investigation possible into all of the aspects of this case be conducted immediately. I further request that should that investigation reveal that there is substance to this apparently gross miscarriage of justice, that you bring any and all powers available to your office to bear to rectify the situation as expeditiously as possible. I’m making this request of you, in your capacity as Chief Executive of the State of Mississippi, as events to date, as I understand them, give me little reason to assume that the Judicial Branch of the Government of the State of Mississippi is capable of resolving this situation either expeditiously, or correctly.

I appreciate your time and consideration of this matter.

Respectfully​

A hard copy version of this will be on its way shortly.
 
Mr. P said:
Not sure I follow the Governor here.
What is he saying? This is srewed up BUT?
Is he saying he'll give stays as long as he's in office?
Is he saying, the Legislature should step in?

:huh:

Hey Governor, just commute the sentence to time served, and let the guy go free!!! Geeezzzzzz


Could you highlight what you are referring to? I'm not following.
 
Kathianne said:
Could you highlight what you are referring to? I'm not following.
I'm say I don't know what the Gov is saying...

So based on this..
So, an effort must begin to take the decision away from those, that by all appearances, have utterly botched it so badly to this point. It’s time that some of the governmental checks and balances mechanisms grind into action

Why doesn't he just let the guy go free? (If he can).
 
Mr. P said:
I'm say I don't know what the Gov is saying...

So based on this..

Why doesn't he just let the guy go free? (If he can).

Oh. I would assume that he has the ability to 'pardon.' I concur, then when free, the guy should fight for his good name. IF I had a gun and had done nothing wrong, and someone took down my door and I had a small child there-I would shoot them.
 
Kathianne said:
Oh. I would assume that he has the ability to 'pardon.' I concur, then when free, the guy should fight for his good name. IF I had a gun and had done nothing wrong, and someone took down my door and I had a small child there-I would shoot them.
I would do the same.
 
MissileMan said:
I'll take a small step, (no leap required) and say that you're a small-minded excuse for a human-being. Do the world a favor and have yourself sterilized. COUGH.

So, either something in my post was factually incorrect or poorly reasoned, but I missed the part where you explained what it was. Since you're such a big-minded type self-entitled to reproduce, maybe you can fill me in. Because small-mindedness, to my mind, is more closely associated with those who name-call and insult instead of argue.
 
William Joyce said:
So, either something in my post was factually incorrect or poorly reasoned, but I missed the part where you explained what it was. Since you're such a big-minded type self-entitled to reproduce, maybe you can fill me in. Because small-mindedness, to my mind, is more closely associated with those who name-call and insult instead of argue.

How about these statements?

Whites don't live in neighborhoods where drugs are dealt. They obey the law.

Blacks don't obey the law.

What's even sadder is the fact that you don't see anything wrong with either of them.
 
MissileMan said:
How about these statements?

Whites don't live in neighborhoods where drugs are dealt. They obey the law.

Blacks don't obey the law.

Statistics bear this out. It's a matter of cold, hard numbers, gathered by your very own beloved FBI:

http://www.vdare.com/taylor/050913_crime.htm

Oh, alright. You object because it's a generalization. "Not all blacks commit crime. Some whites do." Yes, of course, this is true. But it's equally true that in general, black neighborhoods harbor far more criminal activity than do white neighborhoods. Therefore, the likelihood of this happening increases sharply. If you think it's unfair that a non-criminal black person would be subjected to white police kick-ins, then you'll also have a problem with a white person who's never owned a slave being told he can't go to the University of Michigan because he's white.

But I'll wager you have no problem with that.
 
William Joyce said:
Statistics bear this out. It's a matter of cold, hard numbers, gathered by your very own beloved FBI:

http://www.vdare.com/taylor/050913_crime.htm

Oh, alright. You object because it's a generalization. "Not all blacks commit crime. Some whites do." Yes, of course, this is true. But it's equally true that in general, black neighborhoods harbor far more criminal activity than do white neighborhoods. Therefore, the likelihood of this happening increases sharply. If you think it's unfair that a non-criminal black person would be subjected to white police kick-ins, then you'll also have a problem with a white person who's never owned a slave being told he can't go to the University of Michigan because he's white.

But I'll wager you have no problem with that.

I'll take that wager...I am against affirmative action, always have been. Scholarships should be given based on merit, not quotas.
 
MissileMan said:
I'll take that wager...I am against affirmative action, always have been. Scholarships should be given based on merit, not quotas.

If you believe scholarships should be based on merit than I would assume you would be for the punishment of those who commit a crime. No excuses.
 
dilloduck said:
If you believe scholarships should be based on merit than I would assume you would be for the punishment of those who commit a crime. No excuses.

When have I ever said otherwise?
 
I disagree with the police trying to railroad the guy, and it diesn't matter what neighborhood he lives in, not what color his suntan is.

You come busting in my house in the middle of the night, you need to have getting shot, stabbed, kicked, beaten, thrown down the stairs and left to die on your itinerary. I'll look and see who you are AFTER.
 
dilloduck said:
If you believe scholarships should be based on merit than I would assume you would be for the punishment of those who commit a crime. No excuses.

Try reading the article. The guy is not a criminal, no criminal record. He shot a man who broke into his home.
 

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