What did GWB do to cause the great recession? DJIA crash? Financial meltdown?

[8537]

Clinton pushing Fannie & Freddie to buy subprime loans.

Fannie and Freddie were a small portion of the buying of subprime loans - and the worst subprime loans were not available for purchase by them. They could only buy conforming loans.

This increased demand for subprime loans among Wallstreet Banks.

This makes no sense. How does an increase in the supply of subprime loans create an increase in demand? If I build ten thousand additional widgets, it doesn't change the demand for widgets.

I never said deregulation did not cause the problem. I said it was not caused by the lack of increased regulation of Mortgage Brokers as Truthmatters espouses. The financial system operated fine prior to Clinton's deregulation even though Mortgage Brokers were always unregulated.

"worked fine"? We had several significant financial crises prior to the passage of a bill sponsored by 3 Republicans and a bill sponsored by four Republicans and one Dem.

 

[KissMy]

I never said deregulation did not cause the problem. I said it was not caused by the lack of increased regulation of Mortgage Brokers as Truthmatters espouses. The financial system operated fine prior to Clinton's deregulation even though Mortgage Brokers were always unregulated.

"worked fine"? We had several significant financial crises prior to the passage of a bill sponsored by 3 Republicans and a bill sponsored by four Republicans and one Dem.

LTCM & the S & L that the Clintons have taxpayers recapitalize were Not Banks, Not Systemic & Not TBTF. Those institutions should have been regulated. This still has nothing to do with Truthmatters arguement that failure to hit the mortgage broker with regulation caused this mess. The regulation must protect the depositors / investors money at the top of the feed chain. If that money is protected then the system is protected.

You failed to address how a mortgage broker can prevent risky Commercial Property, Commercial Paper, Student Loans, Auto Loans, Business Loans & Credit Cards.

Bernie Madoff had nothing to do with mortgage brokers. He stole the investors money. Why was he not regulated?

Realtors are regulated & must act as a "Fiduciary Agent" for the buyer. Why were they allowing buyers to overpay for homes?

The Unregulated Banks created way to much bad paper money that drove the Realtors & Loan Brokers regulated or not.

 

[Truthmatters]

File:U.S. Home Ownership and Subprime Origination Share.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


why did subprimes balloon in 2004?

 

[8537]

"worked fine"? We had several significant financial crises prior to the passage of a bill sponsored by 3 Republicans and a bill sponsored by four Republicans and one Dem.

LTCM & the S & L that the Clintons have taxpayers recapitalize were Not Banks, Not Systemic & Not TBTF.

What about the myriad bank failures and financial crises before those?

Those institutions should have been regulated. This still has nothing to do with Truthmatters arguement that failure to hit the mortgage broker with regulation caused this mess. The regulation must protect the depositors / investors money at the top of the feed chain. If that money is protected then the system is protected.

I'm not having this discussion with Truthmatters. I'm having it with you. I'm not sure why you expect me to explain his/her posts - s/he's doing fine.

You failed to address how a mortgage broker can prevent risky Commercial Property, Commercial Paper, Student Loans, Auto Loans, Business Loans & Credit Cards.

Bernie Madoff had nothing to do with mortgage brokers. He stole the investors money. Why was he not regulated?

Bernie Madoff DID face regulation. Unfortunately, the executive-branch that regulates was asleep at the wheel. Commercial paper markets are virtually free of regulation, but student loans, auto loans and credit cards face significant regulation.

Realtors are regulated & must act as a "Fiduciary Agent" for the buyer. Why were they allowing buyers to overpay for homes?

"over pay" for their homes? It's a price agreed upon by the buyer and seller, determined only by the responses of other buyers and sellers. What metric would you use to determine if someone "overpaid"? Who gets to set the price at which a home is considered overpriced?

I though that was the market's job.

The Unregulated Banks created way to much bad paper money that drove the Realtors & Loan Brokers regulated or not.

Sure. So the answer is.....

Perhaps we should regulate them, right?

 

[JRK]

"worked fine"? We had several significant financial crises prior to the passage of a bill sponsored by 3 Republicans and a bill sponsored by four Republicans and one Dem.

LTCM & the S & L that the Clintons have taxpayers recapitalize were Not Banks, Not Systemic & Not TBTF.

What about the myriad bank failures and financial crises before those?



I'm not having this discussion with Truthmatters. I'm having it with you. I'm not sure why you expect me to explain his/her posts - s/he's doing fine.



Bernie Madoff DID face regulation. Unfortunately, the executive-branch that regulates was asleep at the wheel. Commercial paper markets are virtually free of regulation, but student loans, auto loans and credit cards face significant regulation.

Realtors are regulated & must act as a "Fiduciary Agent" for the buyer. Why were they allowing buyers to overpay for homes?

"over pay" for their homes? It's a price agreed upon by the buyer and seller, determined only by the responses of other buyers and sellers. What metric would you use to determine if someone "overpaid"? Who gets to set the price at which a home is considered overpriced?

I though that was the market's job.

The Unregulated Banks created way to much bad paper money that drove the Realtors & Loan Brokers regulated or not.

Sure. So the answer is.....

Perhaps we should regulate them, right?

You keep saying the same thing over and over with nothing to back it up
"asleep at the wheel"
"Fiduciary agent"
"Realtors"

and yet not one link to one piece of legislation GWB sent to congress, congress approved it, and GWB signed it into law that had anything to do with this mess
well thats not really true
Sarbanes Oxley

 

[8537]

LTCM & the S & L that the Clintons have taxpayers recapitalize were Not Banks, Not Systemic & Not TBTF.

What about the myriad bank failures and financial crises before those?



I'm not having this discussion with Truthmatters. I'm having it with you. I'm not sure why you expect me to explain his/her posts - s/he's doing fine.



Bernie Madoff DID face regulation. Unfortunately, the executive-branch that regulates was asleep at the wheel. Commercial paper markets are virtually free of regulation, but student loans, auto loans and credit cards face significant regulation.


"over pay" for their homes? It's a price agreed upon by the buyer and seller, determined only by the responses of other buyers and sellers. What metric would you use to determine if someone "overpaid"? Who gets to set the price at which a home is considered overpriced?

I though that was the market's job.

The Unregulated Banks created way to much bad paper money that drove the Realtors & Loan Brokers regulated or not.

Sure. So the answer is.....

Perhaps we should regulate them, right?

You keep saying the same thing over and over with nothing to back it up
"asleep at the wheel"
"Fiduciary agent"
"Realtors"

and yet not one link to one piece of legislation GWB sent to congress, congress approved it, and GWB signed it into law that had anything to do with this mess
well thats not really true
Sarbanes Oxley

So you deny that the SEC regulators were asleep at the wheel on the Madoff case? I don't feel the need to provide links to common knowledge.

I haven't mentioned fiduciary agents once, so I have no idea what you're talking about. And I haven't really mentioned realtors.

you really need to learn to read my posts before responding. Instead, you write a whole bunch of stuff based on some weird fantasy about what you wish I said.

And as I explained earlier, the regulatory changes don't require congress. Congress passes laws. Executive branch agencies create the regulations to enact and enforce those laws. The SEC doesn't need approval to change how it regulates the largest five financial firms in light of the net capital rule, for example.

But I repeat myself....and I'm sure you'll just skip over it again.

 

[JRK]

What about the myriad bank failures and financial crises before those?



I'm not having this discussion with Truthmatters. I'm having it with you. I'm not sure why you expect me to explain his/her posts - s/he's doing fine.



Bernie Madoff DID face regulation. Unfortunately, the executive-branch that regulates was asleep at the wheel. Commercial paper markets are virtually free of regulation, but student loans, auto loans and credit cards face significant regulation.


"over pay" for their homes? It's a price agreed upon by the buyer and seller, determined only by the responses of other buyers and sellers. What metric would you use to determine if someone "overpaid"? Who gets to set the price at which a home is considered overpriced?

I though that was the market's job.



Sure. So the answer is.....

Perhaps we should regulate them, right?

You keep saying the same thing over and over with nothing to back it up
"asleep at the wheel"
"Fiduciary agent"
"Realtors"

and yet not one link to one piece of legislation GWB sent to congress, congress approved it, and GWB signed it into law that had anything to do with this mess
well thats not really true
Sarbanes Oxley

So you deny that the SEC regulators were asleep at the wheel on the Madoff case? I don't feel the need to provide links to common knowledge.

I haven't mentioned fiduciary agents once, so I have no idea what you're talking about. And I haven't really mentioned realtors.

you really need to learn to read my posts before responding. Instead, you write a whole bunch of stuff based on some weird fantasy about what you wish I said.

And as I explained earlier, the regulatory changes don't require congress. Congress passes laws. Executive branch agencies create the regulations to enact and enforce those laws. The SEC doesn't need approval to change how it regulates the largest five financial firms in light of the net capital rule, for example.

But I repeat myself....and I'm sure you'll just skip over it again.

Bernie Madoff?
I would say there was allot of people asleep at the will
You know what the problem is?
that case was pure fraud, and it went back long before Bush. His intent was to never get caught
he broke so many laws to hide the very thing that finally got him caught

what regulatory changes did GWB make
you keep claiming GWB made changes to the way banks were regulated
what changes were made?

No I use links 90% of the time

specific events
when will you start?

Let me help
George W. Bush
I goggled regulation changes for GWB this was what I got
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...k9G4Cw&usg=AFQjCNHP2UXWHVigANL15My7AneWOmVB6w
Bush Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten wrote a memo encouraging Administration agencies to pass rules in time for them to become law before the end of Bush's second term.
The Bush administration also approved thousands of pages of dozens of new agency rules,[10] setting a new record.[11] Many of these regulations were promulgated in the hope of ensuring enactment before Barack Obama took office and could prevent the rules from becoming law. Bush Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten encouraged timely passage of the rules in a May 2008 memo to agencies suggesting that final versions be submitted by November 1.[9] Finalized and proposed rules included:[1]
A finalized rule effectively deregulates industrial farms
An adopted rule opens up public land to drilling preliminary to the development of oil shale extraction
A proposed rule provides for a conscience clause for workers at hospitals receiving federal money (particularly state hospitals), allowing them to refuse to perform abortions or dispense contraceptives
Several other rules were already adopted in late 2008, including one increasing truck drivers' maximum hours of service to eleven and another restricting employee time off under the Family and Medical Leave Act.[12] The rules attracted considerable criticism.[13]
Hours after Obama took office, his administration ordered all executive branch agencies to halt enactment of any rules proposed during the Bush Administration until the incoming administration could review them.[14] According to the environmentalist magazine Grist, these efforts were effective in only a few cases; for other environmental rules the Obama administration tried to reverse some rules through Congress and some through the same slow administrative rulemaking process while interest groups challenged other environmental regulations in the courts.[15]
A subcommittee on administrative law in the Democratic House of Representatives held a hearing on midnight regulations the month after Obama's inauguration.[16]
[edit]

 

[KissMy]

"worked fine"? We had several significant financial crises prior to the passage of a bill sponsored by 3 Republicans and a bill sponsored by four Republicans and one Dem.

LTCM & the S & L that the Clintons have taxpayers recapitalize were Not Banks, Not Systemic & Not TBTF.

What about the myriad bank failures and financial crises before those?



I'm not having this discussion with Truthmatters. I'm having it with you. I'm not sure why you expect me to explain his/her posts - s/he's doing fine.



Bernie Madoff DID face regulation. Unfortunately, the executive-branch that regulates was asleep at the wheel. Commercial paper markets are virtually free of regulation, but student loans, auto loans and credit cards face significant regulation.

Realtors are regulated & must act as a "Fiduciary Agent" for the buyer. Why were they allowing buyers to overpay for homes?

"over pay" for their homes? It's a price agreed upon by the buyer and seller, determined only by the responses of other buyers and sellers. What metric would you use to determine if someone "overpaid"? Who gets to set the price at which a home is considered overpriced?

I though that was the market's job.

The Unregulated Banks created way to much bad paper money that drove the Realtors & Loan Brokers regulated or not.

Sure. So the answer is.....

Perhaps we should regulate them, right?

ARE YOU DENSE??? For the 3rd time now I said Wallstreet Banks should have been regulated. Your Boy Clinton Deregulated them. CAPICHE!!!

What metric would a Mortgage Broker who was acting as a fiduciary in the borrowers best interest use to determine that they should not take money that they cant repay? It is almost always going to be in the borrowers best interest to get more money & live beyond their means. As long as banks keep giving them other peoples money even when they have bad credit & have proven they will not repay creditors, how can a Mortgage Broker say this is not in their best interest? Especially if the Broker thought home prices would keep rising.

Banks created way to much bad paper loans. This increased the money supply & raised all commodity & home prices. Regulated Realtors & Mortgage Brokers would be in no position to know when a banker is going to stop creating money & running up prices. Buying a home with a subprime loan in 2000 would have been a great investment if they sold in 2006.

Yours & Truthmatters argument is baseless. What good do SEC regulators do if there is a "Shadow Banking" system that can legally avoid them.

Deceiving the public into depositing & investing thinking the system is safe & regulated when it truly is not is far, far, far worse than telling them there is no regulation at all.

The monetary system can't be regulated by Realtors & Mortgage Brokers. Investments & Bank Deposits must be regulated if you are going to have a FIAT money system. Otherwise people will revert back to the Gold barter system whether the Government & Bankers like it or not.

 

[Too Tall]

Press Release: Agencies Adopt Final Rules to Implement the Bank 'Broker' Provisions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act; 2007-198; Sept. 24, 2007


Joint Release
Securities and Exchange Commission
Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
2007-198

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Agencies Adopt Final Rules to Implement the Bank 'Broker' Provisions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act
Washington, D.C., Sept. 24, 2007 - The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (Board) on Monday announced the adoption of final joint rules to implement the "broker" exceptions for banks under Section 3(a)(4) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. These exceptions were adopted as part of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 (GLB Act). The SEC and the Board approved the final rules at separate open meetings held on September 19, 2007, and September 24, 2007, respectively.

The Board and SEC issued proposed rules for comment in December 2006. The final rules are similar to the proposed rules in overall scope and approach. In response to comments, the agencies also have modified the rules in several important respects to make the rules more workable and less burdensome. These changes are discussed in detail in the attached notice, which will be published in the Federal Register shortly.

The SEC members were all appointed by Clinton until June 5, 2001 when one member left and and a replacement was appointed by Bush. Since one member is appointed every year, it took until June 5, 2005 to replace all five Clinton appointees. From 1999 until 2005 (6 years) the GLB Act sat in limbo but it took the Bush SEC appointees a little over 2 years to finalize the rules according to your link.

 

[Truthmatters]

Securities and Exchange Commission appointees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


BushUnder George W. Bush:

Harvey Pitt - 2001-03 (Chair: 2001-03)
Paul S. Atkins - 2002-2008
Cynthia Glassman - 2002-2006
Harvey Goldschmid - 2002-2005
William H. Donaldson - 2003-2005 (Chair: 2003-2005)
Roel Campos - 2002-2008
Annette Nazareth - 2005-2008
Christopher Cox - 2005-2009 (Chair: 2005-2009)
Kathleen Casey - 2006–present; 5-year-term expiration June 5, 2011;[3] (R)[4]
Troy A. Paredes - 2008–present; 5-year-term expiration June 5, 2013; [3] (R)[4]
Luis A. Aguilar - 2008–present; part-term expiration June 5, 2010;[3] (D)[4]
Elisse B. Walter - 2008–present; part-term expiration June 5, 2012;[3] (D)[4]

 

[Wolfmoon]

Why isn't anyone blaming Clinton he practically single handedly took down the American worker.

Clinton was for and fought for the U.S.-China Relations Act of 2000 which opened China's market of cheap labor to U.S. businesses. Clinton didn’t care if the bill cost the U.S. taxpayers their jobs. Now, look at the state of the country and the economy.

 

[Wolfmoon]

Just today I heard on the News that 50,000 American companies have moved to China in the last 10 years.

 

[Truthmatters]

Because it did not cause the world wide crash.

The subprime mess did cause it.

 

[Wolfmoon]

I think the subprime mortgages catastrophe had a lot to do with the American's losing their jobs because their factory moved overseas or corporations chose to hire cheap illegal alien labor in the U.S.

When the Americans lost their jobs and couldn't find comparable work they then lost their houses in foreclosures. The housing market was greatly secured by foreign investors. That trail leads right back to Bill Clinton.

 

[Truthmatters]

You dont understand much about this mess then

 

[Wolfmoon]

Well let’s see, Americans lose jobs, Americans loses houses, Americans loses buying power and government sucks Americans dry and then taxes them to death. Then to add insult to injury the government makes Americans buy Chinese products made in China that use to be made in America by Americans. I think I understand it perfectly.

 

[Truthmatters]

are you aware of the history of our tax rate in this country?

You seem to be very poorly informed

 

[Wolfmoon]

The lions-share of the foreclosures hasn’t even hit the market place yet. You just wait and watch the world market when that happens. The stock market will be the world temperature gage.

Americans better step in and try to stop this freight train before the politicians run it off the cliff. The only way to save America is replace every politician in office by voting them all out and never let any politician have more than one term in office because the longer they stay in office the more corrupt they become.

 

[KissMy]

You dont understand much about this mess then

Wolfmoon understands correctly.

Bill Clinton was the #1 cause of this financial mess, Bush is right behind him. It took Greenspan, Paulson, Geithner, Bernanke & Powell way to long to raise hell with congress & the administration when the huge swell in subprime came on. They were likely worried democrats would scream Bush hates poor people so soon after Bush just signed the Downpayment Act in 2003. Or it could have been that nearly everyone in DC was on the take from these bankers to keep the money machine going.

The down-payment act was not as bad as the actual subprime loan. The down-payment was actual cash collateral as where the loan document was a worthless collateral document.

 

[Yoda]

The mortgage/ sub-prime loan crash was actually a result of the Carter admin. As far as W, do you remember that check he sent everyone after his election? He ruined the entire surplus that the Clinton admin. built or more accurately, the dot com bubble. I know that conservatives think that the economy works better if you give the money back to the people, but when most people will just blow it all at wal-mart on Chinese goods, it doesn't. So now, the debt clock is back and boom! 9/11. Off to Afghanistan we go and rightfully so, but then W gets this bright idea to invade Iraq and finish what daddy started, even though Iraq was no threat, we knew Bin Laden wasn't there and all evidence of WMD was proven false. So now we have 2 wars, 1 for 9/11 and 1 for fun. During this time, W deregulated most of the laws that protect consumers from such predatory practices, thus Corporations could do what ever they saw fit in the name of profit. Also, in 2008, he signed the first bailout from China, for these banks and financial institutions such as Goldman-Sachs that caused the BS in the first place, not to mention that those financial institutions were making record profits, but magically, showed a big loss right before W signed the bailout bill. It's not only what W did, but what he didn't do. The mortgage crises has been brewing since Carter. W, like Clinton, H.W and Regan before him, chose to ignore it. The republican want to blame the Dems for "kicking the can" instead of fixing it, but what they don't tell you is that they were kicking that can just as much while holding the Dems hands kicking merrily along the way.